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spanishwhite
06-08-2003, 01:28 PM
Quality starts.

Sox 38
Yankees 37
A's 35
Mariners 34
Twins 32

Loaiza leads the league with 11

Thought it was interesting.

One of the few bright spots this year.

gosox41
06-08-2003, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by spanishwhite
Quality starts.

Sox 38
Yankees 37
A's 35
Mariners 34
Twins 32

Loaiza leads the league with 11

Thought it was interesting.

One of the few bright spots this year.

If you told me that this would be the case back in April, I would have thought the Sox would be handily in first place. I never expected such an awful slump.

Bob

doublem23
06-08-2003, 04:09 PM
God dammit... If we could only average more than 3 runs game or so.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-08-2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
*** dammit... If we could only average more than 3 runs game or so.


No, no, no! What we need is to tighten the defense. Then we'll only give up 2 runs per game. Problem solved.

doublem23
06-08-2003, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
No, no, no! What we need is to tighten the defense. Then we'll only give up 2 runs per game. Problem solved.

:hitless
Ha! Suckers!

xil357
06-09-2003, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
No, no, no! What we need is to tighten the defense. Then we'll only give up 2 runs per game. Problem solved.

I don't think improving the defense would SOLVE all the problems, but it could be part of the solution to what ails this team and would complement both the starting pitching and improved situational, patient and disciplined hitting.

No doubt the hitting needs to improve, but an improved D would help too. A team full of hitters who can't play defense might be fun to watch but it doesn't win a lot of games (just ask the Texas Rangers).

Dadawg_77
06-09-2003, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by xil357
I don't think improving the defense would SOLVE all the problems, but it could be part of the solution to what ails this team and would complement both the starting pitching and improved situational, patient and disciplined hitting.

No doubt the hitting needs to improve, but an improved D would help too. A team full of hitters who can't play defense might be fun to watch but it doesn't win a lot of games (just ask the Texas Rangers).

Do you watch baseball? If you did you would know that Texas has no pitching, reason why they can't win. And some pretty good infield defense, I do believe Ralph won a few gold gloves, I Rod wasn't bad behind the plate, A Rod is the one of the best if not the best defensive SS in the game today. The OF wasn't/isn't that bad. So please don't look a like neophyte to the game and blame Texas woes on defense.

hold2dibber
06-09-2003, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
If you told me that this would be the case back in April, I would have thought the Sox would be handily in first place. I never expected such an awful slump.

Bob

I completely agree. That's the reason I don't think KW can be faulted for this team's struggles - he had a very good hitting team going into last off season. He greatly improved the starting pitching, which was clearly the team's biggest hole. The offensive struggles have taken EVERYONE by surprise.

hold2dibber
06-09-2003, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by xil357
I don't think improving the defense would SOLVE all the problems, but it could be part of the solution to what ails this team and would complement both the starting pitching and improved situational, patient and disciplined hitting.

No doubt the hitting needs to improve, but an improved D would help too. A team full of hitters who can't play defense might be fun to watch but it doesn't win a lot of games (just ask the Texas Rangers).

Well, sure, good defense would be preferable to average defense. I don't think anyone would suggest that improved D would not help the team. But for anyone to suggest that this team isn't winning because of defense is nuts - they're not winning because they're not hitting. Period. End of story. The lack of hitting might make each defensive miscue that much more glaring, just because the margin for error is so slim when the offense is putting any runs up, but this team was built to hit and they haven't hit and that's why they haven't won.

And the Rangers problem is NOT defense -- it is pitching.

Iwritecode
06-09-2003, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
God dammit... If we could only average more than 3 runs game or so.

Just remember that a quality start doesn't factor in the bullpen blowing the lead late in the game either...

gosox41
06-09-2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by xil357
I don't think improving the defense would SOLVE all the problems, but it could be part of the solution to what ails this team and would complement both the starting pitching and improved situational, patient and disciplined hitting.

No doubt the hitting needs to improve, but an improved D would help too. A team full of hitters who can't play defense might be fun to watch but it doesn't win a lot of games (just ask the Texas Rangers).

The biggest hole on the team right now is offense. If the hitters hit like they're capable of them this team is in first place. Tweaking the D isn't going to do much since the Sox rank 4th in the AL in range factor.

Bob

hold2dibber
06-09-2003, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Just remember that a quality start doesn't factor in the bullpen blowing the lead late in the game either...

Does anyone know where to find bullpen stats by team? I'm interested in seeing how the Sox bullpen fares as compared to the rest of the league in terms of ERA and blown saves. I can't find those stats at ESPN.com or MLB.com. Any ideas?

dougs78
06-09-2003, 11:34 AM
Seriously. That is an amazing stat.

Imagine if someone had said to you in April that this would be the case? First of all, that person would have been ridiculed to no end on this board. Second, those that didn't would have guessed we probably had the best record in baseball.

Personally, if you would have told me that our pitching was that good, combined with the incredibly talented lineup we have I would have been saying, "World Series here we come."

However, with the way the hitting is going I'm tempering my expectations. But I still believe that our hitting will come around and thus if our pitching can continue, playoffs are still a possibility.

MRKARNO
06-09-2003, 08:30 PM
This just proves that if the offense gets going to some degree whatsoever, that the sox will be able to battle back to AL Central's number one spot. The starting has been up to playoff team standards, if not World Series team standards. The hitting has been to AAA standards, so if the hitting gets going and the Bullpen stops blowing leads (cough Tom Gordon cough), the sox will defy history and make the playoffs.
Boers, Bernstein, North and Buffone are all convinced that the sox are done because of that 5% stat, but they fail to look deeper into the issues

Iguana775
06-09-2003, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
This just proves that if the offense gets going to some degree whatsoever, that the sox will be able to battle back to AL Central's number one spot. The starting has been up to playoff team standards, if not World Series team standards. The hitting has been to AAA standards, so if the hitting gets going and the Bullpen stops blowing leads (cough Tom Gordon cough), the sox will defy history and make the playoffs.
Boers, Bernstein, North and Buffone are all convinced that the sox are done because of that 5% stat, but they fail to look deeper into the issues

Agreed. And of late, the pitching has been REALLY good. If Burly gets back on pace, the Sox will have a nice rotation. Then if the offense gets going, I think that they could go on a tear.

hold2dibber
06-10-2003, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by Iguana775
Agreed. And of late, the pitching has been REALLY good. If Burly gets back on pace, the Sox will have a nice rotation. Then if the offense gets going, I think that they could go on a tear.

Another big "IF" is "If Loaiza can keep pitching like he has." In any event, I do think the Sox will turn it around and go on a tear - when they're about 12 1/2 games out of first and there is absolutely no realistic chance of getting back in it. They'll cut the lead to maybe 7 1/2 games in August, everyone will get excited that they could maybe, just maybe, sneak in. And then they'll fade and finish the year 81-81. That's the Jerry Manuel way!

MRKARNO
06-10-2003, 10:26 AM
Well right now they're 7.5 games back