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hose
06-08-2003, 08:15 AM
Danny Evans made some trades this spring to open up his payroll for next season.

Vladimire Guerrero will be the biggest free agent available on the market over the winter and roaming the outfield in LA would be a perfect fit.

Only problem is that Vlad could be damaged goods. Guerrero is presently on the DL with a herniated disc in his back. A big price tag with some back ailments will probably scare off some teams.
Not that there will be a lot of teams bidding on his services to begin with.

The Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Giants even the Cubs could be some of the teams. If the Dodgers pull out of the Guerrero sweepstakes and still have a pocket full of money to spend I wonder if Frank Thomas might be playing 1st base for the Dodgers next year. Anyway you look at it the Dodgers will have to fill a void at 1st base next year, why not Hurt?

MRKARNO
06-08-2003, 10:31 AM
Where is Fred McGriff in this whole equation?

SoxxoS
06-08-2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Where is Fred McGriff in this whole equation?

He's on his last legs, MRKARNO. If he has another year on his contract, he can come in off the bench next year.

MRKARNO
06-08-2003, 12:11 PM
Does anyone know anything about McGriff's contract?

Daver
06-08-2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Does anyone know anything about McGriff's contract?

He signed a 1 year 3.75 mil contract for this year.

jeremyb1
06-08-2003, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by hose
Danny Evans made some trades this spring to open up his payroll for next season.

Vladimire Guerrero will be the biggest free agent available on the market over the winter and roaming the outfield in LA would be a perfect fit.

Only problem is that Vlad could be damaged goods. Guerrero is presently on the DL with a herniated disc in his back. A big price tag with some back ailments will probably scare off some teams.
Not that there will be a lot of teams bidding on his services to begin with.

The Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Giants even the Cubs could be some of the teams. If the Dodgers pull out of the Guerrero sweepstakes and still have a pocket full of money to spend I wonder if Frank Thomas might be playing 1st base for the Dodgers next year. Anyway you look at it the Dodgers will have to fill a void at 1st base next year, why not Hurt?

frank is going to have to have an incredibly good season or be incredibly incredibly miserable in chicago for it to make sense for him to leave at the end of this season. assuming he does have a good season and forces us to exercise our option i believe that's somewhere in the area of 8 million next season plus his 2 million buyout. that's 10 million dollars. i doubt he can find anyone to pay that next season and even if he does it, he's 35 it won't run the length of our deal.

gosox41
06-08-2003, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by hose
Danny Evans made some trades this spring to open up his payroll for next season.

Vladimire Guerrero will be the biggest free agent available on the market over the winter and roaming the outfield in LA would be a perfect fit.

Only problem is that Vlad could be damaged goods. Guerrero is presently on the DL with a herniated disc in his back. A big price tag with some back ailments will probably scare off some teams.
Not that there will be a lot of teams bidding on his services to begin with.

The Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Giants even the Cubs could be some of the teams. If the Dodgers pull out of the Guerrero sweepstakes and still have a pocket full of money to spend I wonder if Frank Thomas might be playing 1st base for the Dodgers next year. Anyway you look at it the Dodgers will have to fill a void at 1st base next year, why not Hurt?


Don't be surprised if LA tries to trade for him this season if Frank can keep his average around .290 with some power. Evans admitted he's built the team on pitching but will be in the market for offense come July.

Personally, I don't want to see Frank go. But I have a feeling come July, everyone on this team is fair game. How does the Dodger farm system rank in terms of pitching? It appears they don't have much offensive help on the way.

Bob

T Dog
06-08-2003, 01:52 PM
I would be less surprised to see Konerko dealt to the Dodgers. Paulie was once one of the hottest prospects to come out of the Dodgers farm system. The GM who gave up on him has been replaced by someone who saw him blossom as a hitter. Konerko is playing like someone who needs a change of scenery.

I also think the Sox would be more willing to deal Konerko than Thomas, who has an unusual contract situation.

Kilroy
06-08-2003, 05:18 PM
I say the Sox need to do something different. Everyone and their mother says that the truck needs to be backed up, trades need to be made for prospects, etc.

How does that help the Sox going into next year? It doesn't.

We know that this team, while possibly overrated in some places, is not performing at their capabilities. Why tear it down, when there's a bit that is promising?

Here's what I would do if I was KW:

1. Sign Colon. No reason to trade him for a bunch of maybes like we gave up to get him.

2. Sign Loaiza. I don't know what we signed him to, but if only a 1 year deal, lock him up for 2 more.

3. The first 2 would go a long way towards convincing Big Hurt to not opt out of his contract. That is the only way he'll leave the Sox after this year, if he opts out. It is not a mutual option until after this year, iirc.

4. Love Jose, but sayonara. Trade him to someone who needs a lefty bat. Get some prospects. Sign defensive shortstop.

5. Upgrade at CF. Even Slo-Swingleton was better than what we have now. If Borchard is gonna be here, he either has to have stellar D (which he doesn't), or hit. He needs to figure it out at the plate.

6. I don't ever want to see Rick White pitch for the Sox again.

If the Sox aren't in the race, dumping is not the way to prepare for next year. There's some pieces worth holding on to. We should.

gosox41
06-08-2003, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
I say the Sox need to do something different. Everyone and their mother says that the truck needs to be backed up, trades need to be made for prospects, etc.

How does that help the Sox going into next year? It doesn't.

We know that this team, while possibly overrated in some places, is not performing at their capabilities. Why tear it down, when there's a bit that is promising?

Here's what I would do if I was KW:

1. Sign Colon. No reason to trade him for a bunch of maybes like we gave up to get him.

2. Sign Loaiza. I don't know what we signed him to, but if only a 1 year deal, lock him up for 2 more.

3. The first 2 would go a long way towards convincing Big Hurt to not opt out of his contract. That is the only way he'll leave the Sox after this year, if he opts out. It is not a mutual option until after this year, iirc.

4. Love Jose, but sayonara. Trade him to someone who needs a lefty bat. Get some prospects. Sign defensive shortstop.

5. Upgrade at CF. Even Slo-Swingleton was better than what we have now. If Borchard is gonna be here, he either has to have stellar D (which he doesn't), or hit. He needs to figure it out at the plate.

6. I don't ever want to see Rick White pitch for the Sox again.

If the Sox aren't in the race, dumping is not the way to prepare for next year. There's some pieces worth holding on to. We should.


You make good points. The problem is money. JR isn't going to spend any more on a payroll next season if attendence sucks this season, especially with the All Star game here.

Note that I don't agree with this attitude at all, but the history of JR's ownership says that the Sox are more likely to decrease payroll then increase it if the team loses money.

I would love to see JR grow some balls and up this payroll to $70 mill. or so. Of course he'd have to hire the right GM to fill the holes, and while spending money is no guarantee of winning, it certainly makes it easier.

Unitl then keep these facts in mind:

1. JR's history of an owner.
2. Attendence will msot likely fall.
3. Buehrle and Garland are arbitration eligible and are both do for significant deacrease. My guess is $3-4 mill. salary for Buehrle and $2 mil or so for JG.
4. Mags salary jumps from $9 mill. to $14 mill. next season
5. Frank's salary jumps $2 mill. next season
6. Koch's salary jumps $2 mil. next season.
7. Konerko's salary jumps about $2 mill. next season.
8. Lee is arbitration eligible next season.

That's about $15-16 mill in extra payroll right there and we haven't even discussed Loiaza $3-4 mill option contract and trying to resign Colon. All this is going on while attendence dwindles, management is incompetent, and these talented players underacheive.

If you were GM, what would you do knowing the above facts?

Bob

FlaSoxxJim
06-08-2003, 05:34 PM
I agree with you Kilroy, I would like to see more talk about holding on to Bart and Loaiza instead of moving them while their value is high. Although MB's numbers don't show it now, we have the kind of 1-2-3 you need to build around, not dismantle. I think we havge a club option of 3.5 mil for Loaiza next year, and unfortunately Colon will coat more. But, if mgmt is at all interested in showing some commitment to a winning franchise they will build around the current front half of the rotation.

Daver
06-08-2003, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by FlaSoxxJim
I agree with you Kilroy, I would like to see more talk about holding on to Bart and Loaiza instead of moving them while their value is high. Although MB's numbers don't show it now, we have the kind of 1-2-3 you need to build around, not dismantle. I think we havge a club option of 3.5 mil for Loaiza next year, and unfortunately Colon will coat more. But, if mgmt is at all interested in showing some commitment to a winning franchise they will build around the current front half of the rotation.

Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

PaleHoseGeorge
06-08-2003, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy

4. Love Jose, but sayonara. Trade him to someone who needs a lefty bat. Get some prospects. Sign defensive shortstop.


I think it's becoming more and more obvious that Jose Valentin is through as an everyday player. He was never that good against lefties and he no longer is getting it done on the left-side of the plate or in the field. He was brilliant in 2000, and signed for less money than Baltimore offered to play for the Sox (the only ballplayer in my memory to ever WANT to play for the Sox badly enough to take less $ for the privilege), and we'll never know what he might have done as everyday SS the past two seasons. But it's over.

I don't see him as a Tony Phillips type super utilityman either. At his age, he is simply too limited in the field. Trade him to a team that needs a left-handed power bat for their playoff drive (we have no such considerations on the South Side) and make do with somebody else's light-hitting SS castoff for 2004 and beyond. At least we'll save payroll for other pressing Sox championship needs. After all, Jerry Reinsdorf wants to win more than we do. He even stated so for the public record.

Iguana775
06-08-2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
I say the Sox need to do something different. Everyone and their mother says that the truck needs to be backed up, trades need to be made for prospects, etc.

How does that help the Sox going into next year? It doesn't.

We know that this team, while possibly overrated in some places, is not performing at their capabilities. Why tear it down, when there's a bit that is promising?

Here's what I would do if I was KW:

1. Sign Colon. No reason to trade him for a bunch of maybes like we gave up to get him.

2. Sign Loaiza. I don't know what we signed him to, but if only a 1 year deal, lock him up for 2 more.

3. The first 2 would go a long way towards convincing Big Hurt to not opt out of his contract. That is the only way he'll leave the Sox after this year, if he opts out. It is not a mutual option until after this year, iirc.

4. Love Jose, but sayonara. Trade him to someone who needs a lefty bat. Get some prospects. Sign defensive shortstop.

5. Upgrade at CF. Even Slo-Swingleton was better than what we have now. If Borchard is gonna be here, he either has to have stellar D (which he doesn't), or hit. He needs to figure it out at the plate.

6. I don't ever want to see Rick White pitch for the Sox again.

If the Sox aren't in the race, dumping is not the way to prepare for next year. There's some pieces worth holding on to. We should.

I agree with everything you said.

T Dog
06-08-2003, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by FlaSoxxJim
I agree with you Kilroy, I would like to see more talk about holding on to Bart and Loaiza instead of moving them while their value is high. Although MB's numbers don't show it now, we have the kind of 1-2-3 you need to build around, not dismantle. I think we havge a club option of 3.5 mil for Loaiza next year, and unfortunately Colon will coat more. But, if mgmt is at all interested in showing some commitment to a winning franchise they will build around the current front half of the rotation.

I was about to write the same thing, but I don't know that I would have put it as well.

Kilroy
06-08-2003, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
...Trade him to a team that needs a left-handed power bat for their playoff drive (we have no such considerations on the South Side) and make do with somebody else's light-hitting SS castoff for 2004 and beyond.

I don't agree that we have no playoff drive to look forward to this season. W/ 100 games left, it's still too early to commit to being out of it. Especially in the Central.

I know, lotsa ifs, but I can't give up yet. I still have tix to about 20 games!

PaleHoseGeorge
06-08-2003, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
I don't agree that we have no playoff drive to look forward to this season. W/ 100 games left, it's still too early to commit to being out of it. Especially in the Central.

I know, lotsa ifs, but I can't give up yet. I still have tix to about 20 games!

I think somebody here figured 93 wins to take the division, roughly what the Twins are on pace to achieve. To get 93 wins the Sox need to play .650 ball the rest of the way. Can they win 2 out of 3 now through September? Sure. However I wouldn't bet on it, not from this bunch. They have a 2+ year history of folding.