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View Full Version : WOW, Is this right?!!?!???!?


NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-20-2001, 10:11 PM
No, not the White Sox score. I'm painfully aware of that. I'm talking about the fact that the Cardnials have won 10 or so in a row & are right on the Cub's ass. LOL Welcome to third place Flubbies!!! LOL

LOL

LOL

LOL

LOL

CUBS SUCK

LOL

LOL

cheeses_h_rice
08-20-2001, 10:14 PM
Unfortunately, the Reds tied it in the bottom of the 9th at 2 due in part to a throwing error on the pitcher's part.

So, hopefully the Cards can hold 'em in the 9th and win it in extras. If they win, they will be tied in games ahead/behind with the Flubs. Third place will be just a mere formality after that!

charlie browned
08-20-2001, 10:25 PM
Random thoughts:

The Jerry Manuel Show with John Rooney prior to tonight's game was a total reality disconnect--Jerry was excitedly talking about the team's push to "go over the top" in the next 40 games. Rooney then asked him about when he would bat Josh Paul--Jerry's answer was basically, "only when we have to"--i.e., against lefties. Rooney then asked Jerry point blank whether he was a fan of platooning--Jerry answered, totally deadpan, that he wished he could field the same lineup every day, without having to platoon. This from a guy who took a winning lineup from 2000 and has played roulette with it all year; players have no idea how to prepare day to day. Valentin, a marginal defensive palyer at best, is suddenly asked to be the team's defensive wizard, playing center, ss, 3b, even 2b.

Rowand is not a center fielder--he has very average range, average arm. Next spring, CF shoulfd be a competition between Singleton and Borchard.
Rowand is a natrual second baseman, and should be converted.

Jerry_Manuel
08-20-2001, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by charlie browned
This from a guy who took a winning lineup from 2000 and has played roulette with it all year; players have no idea how to prepare day to day. Valentin, a marginal defensive palyer at best, is suddenly asked to be the team's defensive wizard, playing center, ss, 3b, even 2b.


I didn't know Jerry Manuel hurt Frank Thomas this comes as news to me. The Sox won last year because of Frank Thomas him not in the lineup hurts. Jerry Manuel did not trade for Royce Clayton in hopes that he could trade him before the season. Manuel screwed up by playing guys like Baines and Ramirez. Clayton makes a ton of money and he wasn't going to be a 4.5 million dollar defensive replacement.

:harold
Jerrt Reinsdorf loves me, so I get to do whatever I want!

Iguana775
08-20-2001, 10:53 PM
has rowand even played the IF let alone 2B??? i dont ever remember reading about him playing any position in the infield.

charlie browned
08-20-2001, 10:58 PM
Jerry--where did I say that Jerry Manuel hurt Frank Thomas?

The Sox won last year because of clutch pitching in the first half--Eldred, Baldwin--not because of Frank "first inning homer" Thomas. The Sox lost to Seattle last year in the playoffs because of Frank "ole the third strike" Thomas.-- he's not a clutch playoff guy of legend-making fame. I recently read that Ted Williams, after having a horrible season in 1959 ( .250 BA--first time below .300--, 11 HRs, etc.)--mainly because of a neck injury--but while makng the highest salary in baseball--$125K--refused to sign the same contract in 1960, and asked that the Red Sox give him the maximum (28%) pay cut for 1960--because he did not earn his salary in 1959.
What are the chances that the Big Skirt will do that for 2002?

danman31
08-20-2001, 11:00 PM
1 in a million. Frank held out in spring training for a reason...

charlie browned
08-20-2001, 11:03 PM
1 in a million. Frank held out in spring training for a reason...

and you're saying the reason is--he's underpaid????

doublem23
08-20-2001, 11:04 PM
How soon we forget 1993:

FRANK THOMAS, 1993 A.L.C.S. v. Toronto
6 G, 6-17 (.353 BA), 10 BB (.593 OB%), 2 R, 3 RBI.

Looks pretty clutch to me. With Frank healthy, we are one of the best teams in baseball, as we proved last year.

:hurt
Once I can move my arm, we'll be back at the top of the AL Central.

Iguana775
08-20-2001, 11:08 PM
how is :hurt doing anyway with his recovery??

Jerry_Manuel
08-20-2001, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by charlie browned
Jerry--where did I say that Jerry Manuel hurt Frank Thomas?



You said:
"This from a guy who took a winning lineup from 2000 and has played roulette with it all year"

Manuel wouldn't have half the lineup changes he does now if Thomas was in the lineup.

charlie browned
08-20-2001, 11:12 PM
(1.) The Sox suck this year.

(2.) Frank Thomas has been out all year.


(1)True, (2) true, but unrelated.

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-20-2001, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
How soon we forget 1993:

FRANK THOMAS, 1993 A.L.C.S. v. Toronto
6 G, 6-17 (.353 BA), 10 BB (.593 OB%), 2 R, 3 RBI.

Looks pretty clutch to me. With Frank healthy, we are one of the best teams in baseball, as we proved last year.




Mr. Clutch huh? He looked like a deer in the headlights in the 2000 ALDS. How's this grab ya.

HE DREW THE COLLAR FOR THE WHOLE SERIES!!!!

I think someone threw out the clutch on the Big Shirt in last years playoffs.

doublem23
08-20-2001, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by charlie browned
(1.) The Sox suck this year.
(2.) Frank Thomas has been out all year.
(1)True, (2) true, but unrelated.

Yeah, losing the runner-up AL MVP wouldn't affect any team (feel free to read that with sarcasm).

Tragg
08-20-2001, 11:15 PM
What makes me sad, is that the Cards and As were about where we were at all-star break. They have made progress, big progress, while we have waddled toward nowhere. We need changes. And sadly, two of the big changes are to reverse two of the changes Kenny Williams made last year - get clayton and alomar the hell out of the lineup.

Jerry_Manuel
08-20-2001, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by charlie browned
The Sox won last year because of clutch pitching in the first half--Eldred, Baldwin--not because of Frank "first inning homer" Thomas. The Sox lost to Seattle last year in the playoffs because of Frank "ole the third strike" Thomas.-- he's not a clutch playoff guy of legend-making fame.

So your saying if the Sox have the Frank Thomas of 1999 who hit .305 with 15 homers and 77 rbi's they still win 95 games and the division correct? If you think that you are crazy that team doesn't make the playoffs without the monster year Thomas had. Why does it matter when he hits his homers? The fact of the matter is that he hits them.

Jerry_Manuel
08-20-2001, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND
Mr. Clutch huh? He looked like a deer in the headlights in the 2000 ALDS. How's this grab ya.

HE DREW THE COLLAR FOR THE WHOLE SERIES!!!!

I think someone threw out the clutch on the Big Shirt in last years playoffs.

Thomas came out and said his swing was screwed up from chasing the AL Home run title. Now that's no excuse when we needed him most he didn't come through simple as that.

charlie browned
08-20-2001, 11:20 PM
yeah--I forgot--losing Randy Johnson, Ken Griffey Jr., and Alex Rodriguez--one each year for three years---is enough to make even the best-run team suck--NOT.

I'm sorry, but I still have a bit of trouble with a DH being an MVP--or even with a DH being a Hall candidate. You have to show at least more than 2 of the 5 tools to be an all-time great, in my book.

Iguana775
08-21-2001, 12:12 AM
so i guess playing a position for most of your career and being considered one of the best hitters since ted william doesnt make a guy a good player? being a 2 time mvp, either(while playing first, might i add)?? almost 3rd last year. being the first player to have 8 or so straight seasons with a .300+ BA, 20+ hr, 100 bb, 100 rbi's, 100 r, either?? lets not forget his batting title, but then again, he isnt that good. yea, right!!!!

Dadawg_77
08-21-2001, 01:22 AM
Welll the A's have better pitching, hiitting and defence then the Sox do even with Frank in the lineup. Yes the offence part is close, but I still give the edge to the A's. Plus the A's improved their team by trading for a player (Dye) whose name they new before they may the deal.

The Cards also have decent pitching and pretty good hitters, plus one of the best managers in the game.

The Sox have a couple of good hitters, a lead off man who wants to bat third, a SS who has one hot month batting over 350 and is still hitting 230 something. A pitching staff that has seen its best at the start of the year go down in flames. A bullpen who needs Embree since every other lefty is hurt or starting. The Sox just didn't have the tools after losing nine guys to the IR.

The Sox now need to get rid of Clayton, put Jose back SS. His errors should go down with everyday play, plus he was the heart and soul of this team last year where Clayton seems to have as much heart as the tin man. Bring Crede up, let Perry walk. I like the guy but we don't need him. Keep Foulke, Keep Konerko, see if you can trade Carlos for a good/great everyday CF or good/great veteran SP. Put Rowand in LF for the start of next year. Have Johnson catch everyday till Paul or the other kid (I forgot his name now) is ready. With the staff send the yound kids back to AAA, keep the vets around If the Vets can't get the job done move them and bring up the kids. Thats what I would look at if I was Kenny, but i'm not so oh well.

Randar68
08-21-2001, 09:42 AM
Rowand is a natrual second baseman, and should be converted

*****!!!!

Rowand has NEVER played 1 day of anything but OF in his professional career. He is a natural LF'er. PERIOD, END OF STORY.

He got to that ball in plenty of time Friday night, he misjudged it and was more worried about where Maggs was than catching the ball.

harwar
08-21-2001, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Iguana775
how is :hurt doing anyway with his recovery??
I have a cousin who used to have a sports talk show(Jerry Cook) and a friend of his said that Big Frank is behind schedule in his recovery.This doesn't surprise me,as Frank is such a huge guy,and i've heard in the past that he doesn't like to stretch as much as he should.I woudn't be surprised if the Big Hurt is frustrated most of the 2002 season.If he were 10 years younger this wouldn't be a problem,but i guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.He not getting any younger.

Joel Perez
08-21-2001, 01:46 PM
Rowand is not a center fielder--he has very average range, average arm. Next spring, CF shoulfd be a competition between Singleton and Borchard.

Aaron Rowand has never played 2B. He played LF and RF in college, as is here with the Sox + minor leagues, but that's it.

Iguana775
08-21-2001, 01:52 PM
goes to show the intelligence, or lack there of, of this guy.

doublem23
08-21-2001, 02:52 PM
Yeah, and then he blasts off on us for calling him a moron...
Jeez...
Don't say stupid stuff and we won't call ya stupid.

I mean, does anyone look at Aaron Rowand and see a natural 2B???