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View Full Version : Shortstops for next year...


MarkEdward
06-05-2003, 01:52 AM
There's a high probability that Jose Valentin won't be back with us next year. So, that leaves us with three options: 1) let Graffanino start, 2) acquire a free agent, or 3) make a trade.

By now, you're probably asking yourself "why don't we look to the minors for the answer?" Well, we have no answers in the minors. In Charlotte, our starting SS is Jorge Nunez. He's 28 and his OPS is .523. Need I go further? In Birmingham, we have Guillermo Reyes and Josh Shaffer. Reyes is considered a prospect, but he won't be ready for next year. Shaffer... well, the less said the better.

The next option is looking for a free agent. The top two SS free agents will be Rich Aurilia and Miguel Tejada. Both will be very expensive. Even if we could afford them, I really wouldn't want them. Aurilia's 2001 season is looking like a big aberration. Call me hard to please, but nothing about Tejada really excites me. His minor league numbers aren't special. He did win the MVP last year, but his OPS+ was 122. That's great for a shortstop, but we can spend our money elsewhere. There's a lesser-known free agent that I'd go after: Chris Woodward. His glove isn't great, but he's got some pop for a SS and can get on base.

The final option is a trade. Jimmy Rollins is looking more and more appealing to me. I'd love to get Freddy Sanchez or Jose Reyes, but no way in hell that's happening. Three minor league names stick out, and could be had for almost nothing:
Jason Maxwell- good stopgag option.
Cody Ransom- no bat, great glove.
Erick Almonte- good arm, can probably put up league-average numbers.

My suggestion? Let Tony start, and find a good glove SS to back him up (Ransom?). Woodward seems like a good option, and I wouldn't mind seeing Almonte is a Sox uniform (if he could be had on the cheap).

kermittheefrog
06-05-2003, 02:01 AM
Mark I usually agree with what you have to say but those all sound like horrible options with the possible exception of signing Woodward. My suggestion is to move Jimenez back to shortstop and find a second baseman. Possibly Graffanino. Other candidates include Tim Hummel, Willie Harris and Aaron Miles.

voodoochile
06-05-2003, 02:35 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Mark I usually agree with what you have to say but those all sound like horrible options with the possible exception of signing Woodward. My suggestion is to move Jimenez back to shortstop and find a second baseman. Possibly Graffanino. Other candidates include Tim Hummel, Willie Harris and Aaron Miles.

The more I watch Jimenez play, the less I like the idea of him being our SS next year. He has tons of talent, but just doesn't hustle enought to be a starting SS, IMO. Besides, with that slow delivery to first, he would be giving up infield singles right and left. Leave him where he is and go get a real starting SS. I think Tejada would be great if for no other reason than it would solidify the position for the next 8 years at least, but I doubt JR will pay for him.

soxtalker
06-05-2003, 06:55 AM
Since it is almost inevitable that we are going to be dumping players and salary before the July 31 trading deadline, let's look a bit more into the trade angle. Are there minor league players in other teams' systems that would be appealing?

hold2dibber
06-05-2003, 08:05 AM
What about the SS prospect that the Reds received from the Blue Jays this past off season? I can't remember his name, but I remember hearing good things about him. The Reds are so pitching poor, I wonder if they'd consider dealing him for some pitching. Is he worth pursuing and if so, what would it take to get him (Rauch? Wright? Marte?)?

Dadawg_77
06-05-2003, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
What about the SS prospect that the Reds received from the Blue Jays this past off season? I can't remember his name, but I remember hearing good things about him. The Reds are so pitching poor, I wonder if they'd consider dealing him for some pitching. Is he worth pursuing and if so, what would it take to get him (Rauch? Wright? Marte?)?

Felipe Lopez, all glove no bat. Plus the Reds probally wouldn't trade him, since they want him there for a few years.

hold2dibber
06-05-2003, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
The next option is looking for a free agent. The top two SS free agents will be Rich Aurilia and Miguel Tejada. Both will be very expensive. Even if we could afford them, I really wouldn't want them. Aurilia's 2001 season is looking like a big aberration.

I'm not sure that I agree that Aurilia will be very expensive. I guess it all comes down to whether the FA market remains in hibernation next winter. But I think most people would agree with your assesment of his '01 campaign, and I therefore think that he won't command huge $.

Paulwny
06-05-2003, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Felipe Lopez, all glove no bat.

You're right , all glove, last night yank announcers were discussing his "looks lost at the plate", how the reds bought the jay's hype about Lopez and now wish they hadn't made the trade.
Of course, "lost at the plate" means he'd be a perfect fit for the sox.

Tree
06-05-2003, 11:29 AM
I kind of like the Idea of Jiminez at SS. I think that it is alot easier to find a 2B. Especially on our team. Miles, Hummel or Harris should be ok at second. I was talking to my buddy in Boston the other night. He was telling me he was hearing rumors about a Nomar for Colon deal. I am not sure if there is any truth to it. But Hell Nomar and Crede on the left would actually give us some solid D on the left.

MarkEdward
06-05-2003, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Mark I usually agree with what you have to say but those all sound like horrible options with the possible exception of signing Woodward. My suggestion is to move Jimenez back to shortstop and find a second baseman. Possibly Graffanino. Other candidates include Tim Hummel, Willie Harris and Aaron Miles.

After thinking about it a bit more and checking some other stats, I wouldn't be totally opposed to moving Jimenez back to short. He's played 95 games at short during his career and his range factor has been above average, relative to the league. His fielding percentage seems to be a problem (maybe that's why the Padres moved him?), but that doesn't bother me. I'd also call up Tim Hummel to replace Jimenez at second. He's having a better year than I at first thought (.771 OPS). I'm still wary of Harris and Miles. Miles' high OBP is the result of his high BA. I don't think that would translate well into the majors.

I don't really think of the other names I threw out there as "solutions." Maxwell is just a cheap stopgag, like previously said. Ransom would only be used as a late-innings defensive substitution. I'm still intrigued about Almonte, however. His 2002 sucked, but wasn't he injured? Anyway, I was impressed with his career AAA numbers (.336 OBP, .443 SLG). He doesn't walk much, but neither did Jimenez in the minors.

Daver
06-05-2003, 11:51 AM
Call up Mike Morgan.









:)

rahulsekhar
06-05-2003, 12:07 PM
How's this for a wacky idea? Go with the young guy who plays the best D! We need to start thinking like Minnesota and get guys who play good D to back our young pitchers, especially up the middle. Then you work with them to develop some offense.

I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong), that Hummel's an excellent defensive player. If so, he's my SS & Jimenez stays @ 2B (where his shortcomings are minimized relative to SS). CLee moves to 1B where he should be at leats decent (since he did come up as a 3B). Borchard & Mags in the corner OF are solid, and Crede stays @ 3B.

CF & SP are the big need areas, but I'd do something like this: Get a veteran FA SP and good fielding CF with speed. If you can, deal Konerko & Valentin to get one of the above 2.

1 - Jimenez (2B)
2 - CLee (1B)
3 - Frank (DH)
4 - Maggs (RF)
5 - Borchard (LF)
6 - Crede (3B)
7 - Olivo (C)
8 - CF with speed
9 - Hummel (SS)

Not a great lineup offensively, but you should be decent assuming that the manager teaches guys how to move runners along, etc.

As for the pitching, keep Loaiza, Buehrle, (and hopefully) Colon. Wright/Garland have this year to either claim spots or get shifted to the 'pen.

SP: Colon
SP: Buehrle
SP: Loaiza
SP: Garland/Wright/veteran FA
SP: Youngster

RP: Koch
RP: Marte
RP: Garland/Wright
RP: Wunsch
RP: FA
RP: FA

That team is improved defensively, the pitching is solid, and while we won't mash our way to a title, we're decent offensively and with young players with potential (Borchard, Olivo, Crede, Jimenez). Then you let things develop offensively

harwar
06-05-2003, 12:25 PM
Jimenez can really geton base but i don't want to see him at ss.He can barely handle second.Hes' just another DH.Just another brick in JRs' wall.

SoxxoS
06-05-2003, 01:38 PM
I dont want D'Angelo Jimenez ANYWHERE NEAR our SS position next year. He can't play 2nd let alone the most active place on the infield. He has NO range to play short. None. If you think Jose Valentin is bad, Jimenez would be worse. Much worse.

I would love to acqire Freddy Sanchez from Boston, however, they are supposedly going to move him to 2B and let go of Todd Walker at the end of the season, so ix-nay that idea. He is a hitting machine, though. He was hitting over .400 until 4 days ago...

Foulke You
06-05-2003, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by Tree
I kind of like the Idea of Jiminez at SS. I think that it is alot easier to find a 2B. Especially on our team. Miles, Hummel or Harris should be ok at second. I was talking to my buddy in Boston the other night. He was telling me he was hearing rumors about a Nomar for Colon deal. I am not sure if there is any truth to it. But Hell Nomar and Crede on the left would actually give us some solid D on the left.

I doubt there is any truth to that rumor. Nomar is bigger than Jesus in Boston. He is the fan favorite and the leader of that team. If we could do Colon for Nomar straight up, I'd do it in a heartbeat but I think the Sox would have to give up a Carlos Lee, prospect, and Bartolo Colon to land Nomar.

Randar68
06-05-2003, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
If we could do Colon for Nomar straight up, I'd do it in a heartbeat but I think the Sox would have to give up a Carlos Lee, prospect, and Bartolo Colon to land Nomar.

I would literally send them anyone else they wanted as the prospect for that deal.

booter14
06-05-2003, 05:18 PM
my first call would be to Mike Caruso to see if he wants to leave the skate board circuit.

If that doesn't work, then definitely Miguel Tejada for Jon Garland, Jose Valentin, and Willie Harris or D. Jimenez. do it now. Oh, you want Paul Konerko too, sure. How bout Brian Daubach as a throw in. He would fit right in at Raider Nation. please.

Paulwny
06-05-2003, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Tree
I kind of like the Idea of Jiminez at SS. I think that it is alot easier to find a 2B. Especially on our team. Miles, Hummel or Harris should be ok at second. I was talking to my buddy in Boston the other night. He was telling me he was hearing rumors about a Nomar for Colon deal. I am not sure if there is any truth to it. But Hell Nomar and Crede on the left would actually give us some solid D on the left.

I also heard Nomar was available,if the bosox are out of the running. I believe he's a free agent at the end of the year. The bosox feel he wants to play on the west coast.

hold2dibber
06-05-2003, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
I also heard Nomar was available,if the bosox are out of the running. I believe he's a free agent at the end of the year. The bosox feel he wants to play on the west coast.

The West Coast of Lake Michigan, by any chance?

hold2dibber
06-05-2003, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by booter14
my first call would be to Mike Caruso to see if he wants to leave the skate board circuit.

If that doesn't work, then definitely Miguel Tejada for Jon Garland, Jose Valentin, and Willie Harris or D. Jimenez. do it now. Oh, you want Paul Konerko too, sure. How bout Brian Daubach as a throw in. He would fit right in at Raider Nation. please.

The A's won't trade Tejada this year unless (1) they're out of the running; or (2) the trade is one that will not hurt their chances this year. In either event, I don't think they'd want anything to do with the package you're suggesting. I'd guess it would take something like Jimenez, Marte and either Olivo or one of the Sox best position player prospects to get Tejada. Moreover, I don't see any reason for the Sox to trade for Tejada just to lose him again at the end of the season to free agency (unless, between now and the trading deadline, they blossom into the world series contenders that only KW and Manuel seem to believe they are ).

Paulwny
06-05-2003, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
The West Coast of Lake Michigan, by any chance?

If we traded Colon for Nomar and if JR would open the safe and sign him to a long term contract that would bring some much needed credibility to this organization and their claim of wanting a championship team.
We can only hope.