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View Full Version : This is what I see for '02


fado
08-20-2001, 04:00 PM
Here are your 2002 White Sox!

2B Ray Durham
3B Jose Valentin
DH Frank Thomas
RF Maglio Ordonez
1B Paul Konerko
LF Carlos Lee
CF Aaron Rowand
SS Royce Clayton
C Sandy Alomar Jr.

As for pitching...little bit harder but here goes -

Mark Buerle
Kip Wells
Sean Lowe
Jim Parque
Fifth Starter up for grabs but I think it's going to Dan Wright

A lot of people have been questioning Rowand's defense in center, I think he has proven that he is the man. He has made some spectacular catches out there. As for Borchard, I think we are at least two seasond away from seeing him up here, and when he comes I think Lee is gone. Crede may be the answer for '03 unless he really proves himself and then I think that Valentin goes to the bench. But I do believe that Perry and Singleton are gone at the end of the season.

Pitchers are a dime a dozen in our minor leagues, we have a ton that are supposed to be great, but the only one that has proven himself is Buerle. Rauch will be a phenom, but I think he will not see action in the bigs until call-ups of 02 and maybe start in '03. Wunch will be back next year and I think that Embree is out of a job. Ginter Garland Biddle Howry Barcelo and hopefully Foulke will come out of the bullpen. I also think that Vining has a chance.

But that's what I think. And to be honest, if our rag-tag put together team this year can still dream of winning the division, I think next year, up and down the line-up we are dangerous. I think we theoretically can have a Seattle-type year.

Anyone have any thought, please say them. But I reallly think this is who we are going to see next year.

Randar68
08-20-2001, 04:17 PM
1) Crede will be your opening day 3B. He plays better defense than anyone on this team could dream of. If he hits .270-10-50, he'll be an enormous improvement over what our current options are.

2) Outside of Buerhle, I think the rotations could consist of any combination of Garland, Rauch, Wright, Kip, Lowe, Glover, and Parque. Personally, I believe our rotation will be Buehrle, Lowe, Wright, Rauch, Garland/Kip. Call me crazy, but if all are 100% healthy, this is what I envision, barring the acquisition of veteran help.

3) Borchard will be the starting CF'er by mid-season at the latest. I was sitting in the right-center seats Friday night, and a little leaguer would have caught the ball Rowand dropped. Borchard will have a higher OBP and hit for much more power than Rowand. Defensively, I would call them equal at worst. You don't pay a guy a 5.3 million dollar bonus to hit dingers in a bandbox in AAA.

4) Catcher, who in the hell knows what they are thinking...is Olivo ready???? Probably not, but my money would be on him being able to put MJ/Paul numbers at the worst...

5) SS, again, if they can't unload Clayton or Valentin, who knows, and this only further complicated the 2B position, although Ray will be a FA after next season and is already making almost 6 million bucks....

6) Sox see a .300-40-120 guy in Carlos Lee, and I would bet they are much more willing to deal Konerko than Lee, although Konerko defines clutch (despite his party attitude)


I think we will see quite a different lineup next year, and think we are still looking at 2003 before we are really WS contenders. We need to get the young talent up here ASAP and have them ready and experienced by then....

KempersRS
08-20-2001, 04:35 PM
I was sitting in the right-center seats Friday night, and a little leaguer would have caught the ball Rowand dropped

Ok, I couldn't leave this one untouched, that was a cheap shot. He has made quite a few nice plays since being called up and he missed a very easy one, it was a fluke.

Randar68
08-20-2001, 04:51 PM
Uhhhh, I was sitting right there. He and Maggs looked at each ethor, neither said a word, and Rowand hesitated before taking control. That hesitation and lapse in concentration on catching the ball caused him to miss it.

It's basic CF. I know he has not played there, but if he can get to the ball, it's his. That's the CF'ers job along with good communication on the field. He did not do his job....

Daver
08-20-2001, 04:54 PM
I have a feeling that we will be spending the spring of 2002 lamenting the fact that there is no Baseball.

Randar68
08-20-2001, 04:57 PM
I have a feeling that we will be spending the spring of 2002 lamenting the fact that there is no Baseball.

Well, the performance of the Twins, and the MLBPA's distaste of the high bonuses to unproven players in the draft, I think the owners are going to be smart enough to pick their fights. I think they now know that until they give comprehensive revenue sharing, the union will not bundge on salary cap issues. Draft reform and other minor issues will likely take priority, and while I think there will be a lockout, IMHO, I do not think it will affect the start of next season.

The fans remember 1994, and they will remember this too, you cannot continue to destroy your customer base....

danman31
08-20-2001, 06:36 PM
What the hell are you guys talking about? Glover can't be a starter. He hasn't built the stamina to be a starter. All he does is waste our bullpen.

Here are my picks for the 2002 rotation-
Buehrle
Parque-he is solid and has some experience
Wells-He should be back to his 1st half form
Garland-He's ready
Lowe-He has been a good starter. I'd rather have him in the pen, but I don't think he's that bad.

As for the others that won't make it as starters-
Glover-Doesn't have the stamina, and even if he gets the stamina, we have better starters.
Biddle-won't be 100% for the start of the year
Rauch-will be 100%, but needs experience. Could be in the rotation by mid year or later though.

Daver
08-20-2001, 06:38 PM
As a starter i think the words Parque and solid are mutually exclusive.

How often can he get past the fifth inning.

Bmr31
08-20-2001, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by daver
As a starter i think the words Parque and solid are mutually exclusive.

How often can he get past the fifth inning.


with the talented young pitchers on the horizon, parque has virtually no chance of being a SP next season.

charlie browned
08-20-2001, 10:08 PM
I was in the park for Rowand's muff on Saturday as well....he's an aggressive, baseball smart, on-base kind of guy, but doesn't have the physical tools for CF. He's a Wally Backman kind of guy.

He's a natural second baseman. (Ok, Jerry, Backman was an SS, but that's a stretch).

Don't make him into a John Cangelosi.

doublem23
08-20-2001, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
with the talented young pitchers on the horizon, parque has virtually no chance of being a SP next season.

That and we will probably need a lefty out of the pen if Wunsch is still recovering.

Bmr31
08-20-2001, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by charlie browned
I was in the park for Rowand's muff on Saturday as well....he's an aggressive, baseball smart, on-base kind of guy, but doesn't have the physical tools for CF. He's a Wally Backman kind of guy.

He's a natural second baseman. (Ok, Jerry, Backman was an SS, but that's a stretch).

Don't make him into a John Cangelosi.


this coming from a guy who compared Garland to Embree lol

Tragg
08-20-2001, 10:13 PM
"Here are your 2002 White Sox!

2B Ray Durham
3B Jose Valentin
DH Frank Thomas
RF Maglio Ordonez
1B Paul Konerko
LF Carlos Lee
CF Aaron Rowand
SS Royce Clayton "


To some extent 2001 is an aberration - but to a large extent it is not.
That lineup is the same stuff we're putting out there now that has no chance against the elite of the league. That is the lineup that is at the bottom in getting on base and is mediocre defensively.
We better upgrade it significantly

KempersRS
08-20-2001, 10:15 PM
To some extent 2001 is an aberration - but to a large extent it is not. That lineup is the same stuff we're putting out there now that has no chance against the elite of the league. That is the lineup that is at the bottom in getting on base and is mediocre defensively.
We better upgrade it significantly

It's also quite similar to the 2000 team that won the AL Central.

doublem23
08-20-2001, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
this coming from a guy who compared Garland to Embree lol

This is obviously old, BUT GARLAND AND EMBREE??? What the hell? I leave for 9 days and I get greeted to this? There is NO comparison between Garland and Embree.

Isn't it ironic that the guy who wants to run Jose Valentin out of town cuz of his D wants to convert Rowand to 2B??? Doink.

Tragg
08-20-2001, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS


It's also quite similar to the 2000 team that won the AL Central.


No clayton in 2000
No alomar in 2000
Two automatic outs introduced in 2001.

A career year out of perry in 2000

Of course we had frank in 2000 as well.

charlie browned
08-20-2001, 10:46 PM
OK--listen--this is my last post on this losers' board. Everything I post is distorted and attacked.

Who wants to run Valentin out of town? Not me. Just put him back on short--and away from third, away from center...away from new situations where he has to think...
I humorously suggested that his theme song be "Oops--I did it Again"--and that's running him out of town?
Sorry--I didn't see the go-slow-we're-humor-challenged handicapped sign here.


Garland will be gone within two years....he's already had one arm injury....which is why the Cubs gave up on him.

Frank Thomas is not worth he salary he's paid.

The future is Borchard, Crede, Rauch, Honel.

Sayonara....

ihatethecubs
08-21-2001, 01:44 AM
we need a playoff experienced pitcher still. one that isnt old and fat either. we will make the playoffs with the big hurt back and parque back too. all of our playoff experienced pitchers are all gone except parque. and he wasnt that great starting off game 1. JB is gone and will probably still be a dodger, siro is in canada and will probably be awesome next year, fatso is old will be history next year. ken doll needs to make a trade

fado
08-21-2001, 08:10 AM
A lot of people are expecting that Clayton will not be here next year, and I think you guys are wrong. He is under contract next year and I don't think that we are going to unload him. He had a terrible start to the season, but in the past month, month and a half, he has been one of the consistent hitters in our line-up. Plus, he is going to break the fielding % for SS this year, and he leads the majors ( I think I heard that one but I'm not sure ).

Crede seems to be the other major discussion out here. Crede is close to being ready, but are we ready to ship Valentin to the bench? I'm saying Valentin to the bench because I feel that he would be playing third next year.

And my favorite bashing that I seen in here is about Rowand. He is a good player. Yes, I also saw that play, but realize that he is a rookie, and mistakes will be made. He will learn that he has to take control in center. When Borchard is ready I think that Rowand moves to left Borchard moves to center and Lee is gone. Someone said that Paulie would go before Lee, but I think that Paulie has a, please4giveme, Grace-like following at the park, plus he can hit.

Anyway, let me have hit!

doublem23
08-21-2001, 08:18 AM
I still stand by my statements that Jose Valentin, when healthy, is our best shortstop.

What we really need is a catcher. MJ is solid, but there are better catchers out there to be had for the right price.

Jerry_Manuel
08-21-2001, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
MJ is solid, but there are better catchers out there to be had for the right price.

:reinsy
There are better fans out there to. You know the ones that come to the park. Maybe we should give that a whirl and see what happens.

doublem23
08-21-2001, 08:25 AM
There are better owners, too, but that's a completely unrelated topic...

Jerry_Manuel
08-21-2001, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
There are better owners, too, but that's a completely unrelated topic...

:reinsy
That is so typical of you fans.

Randar68
08-21-2001, 08:33 AM
all of our playoff experienced pitchers are all gone except parque. and he wasnt that great starting off game 1.

Having some reliable veteran Bullpen guys will be change numero uno. How many leads has this team blown in the 6-9th innings this year. Foulke and Howry are overworked because there is no Wunsch, Simas, Barcelo, Lowe, Osuna out there. The absense of these guys has probably made the difference in 10+ games this year compared to last.

Our late relief/set-up has been non-=existent for most of the season...


What we really need is a catcher. MJ is solid, but there are better catchers out there to be had for the right price

I'll say this again...CJ...but really, if MJ can keep his OBP around .350, where it is now, and call good games like he does, I'm all for him starting 100 games next year.

This team needs more runners, not more low-OBP wann-be HR hitters....

Jerry_Manuel
08-21-2001, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
This team needs more runners, not more low-OBP wann-be HR hitters....

That sounds like Ray Durham.

doublem23
08-21-2001, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
I'll say this again...CJ...but really, if MJ can keep his OBP around .350, where it is now, and call good games like he does, I'm all for him starting 100 games next year.

This team needs more runners, not more low-OBP wann-be HR hitters....

Right, if MJ can get that OBP up to .350ish for a full season, I wouldn't mind him being our #1. Unfortunately, I don't think he can, and we should at least be investigating the possibilities we have, if nothing else.

http://marlins.mlb.com/fla/photo/ph_play_mugshot_116569.jpg
Yeah, you all miss me.

Randar68
08-21-2001, 08:37 AM
That sounds like Ray Durham.

Actually, it was a direct knock on Durham, Clayton, Singleton, Alomar, and Paul.

Randar68
08-21-2001, 08:39 AM
Yeah, you all miss me.

Actually, I fully expect him to have his out clause excercised and become an UFA. Florida's not getting their stadium, and MArk Redmond and another young catcher they have are taking a bit of his PT. He's platooning now instead of playing everyday....

doublem23
08-21-2001, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Actually, it was a direct knock on Durham, Clayton, Singleton, Alomar, and Paul.

:versatile
What? No one knocks the great Josh Paul! I am VERSATILE!! Not to mention, I am also back in the bigs!

doublem23
08-21-2001, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Actually, I fully expect him to have his out clause excercised and become an UFA. Florida's not getting their stadium, and MArk Redmond and another young catcher they have are taking a bit of his PT. He's platooning now instead of playing everyday....

Sounds good, but there are 2 halves to the bridge, and we all know that Uncle Jerry doesn't like to open up his wallet.

:reinsy
What? More money for players? What do you think this is, a "Let's Lose all of Jerry's Money" ball team?

Randar68
08-21-2001, 08:44 AM
What? No one knocks the great Josh Paul! I am VERSATILE!! Not to mention, I am also back in the bigs!


Ugggggghhhhhhhh......don't remind me. How many more times will you get thrown out at third this year, Josh????

Miguel Olivo, you table awaits you....

Jerry_Manuel
08-21-2001, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Ugggggghhhhhhhh......don't remind me. How many more times will you get thrown out at third this year, Josh????

Miguel Olivo, you table awaits you....

Hey Randar has anything happened with those catchers we drafted? I recall you saying that Reinsdorf wouldn't pay them. Any update?

Randar68
08-21-2001, 09:04 AM
The catcher rated #2 overall by Baseball America and one of the top 3 in every other publication, was a steal at #103 overall in the 3rd round. So of course, he won't pay him the 2nd round money he's demanding. And you wonder why there are no good catching prospects in our system that we drafted.

Jay Mattox, the 4th rounder, has a ton of raw power, and is a 6'2" 200 pound CF'er with good speed. Not going to sign him either.....

Wasted picks, Jerry, you cheapskate, lame-ass MOFO!!!! I HATE JR!!!!!!!!

Both will enroll at LSU next week and begin classes. Once they start classes, the Sox lose their negotiating rights to them, and they can't be signed until they are drafted again....

I HATE JR!! I HATE JR!! I HATE JR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pathetic, we draft one of the top 3 catchers in each of the last 2 drafts, knowing that they would demand higher-round money, and don't sign either...


WHY BOTHER???????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????

Jerry_Manuel
08-21-2001, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Wasted picks, Jerry, you cheapskate, lame-ass MOFO!!!! I HATE JR!!!!!!!!
I HATE JR!! I HATE JR!! I HATE JR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pathetic, we draft one of the top 3 catchers in each of the last 2 drafts, knowing that they would demand higher-round money, and don't sign either...
WHY BOTHER????????????

I've been thinking the same thing. If you have no intention of paying these players the money why bother drafting them? That just seems like pissing away a draft pick.

Randar68
08-21-2001, 09:13 AM
Exactly, Jerry. They filled 2 distinct needs at CF and C with top quality propsects, and signed neither of them. And we wonder why our positional prospect holes are never being filled. Apparently, not only will they not sign Jon Zeringue, but there is now bad blood there as well. We'll see, they have a week, but it's EXTREMELY unlikely at this point.

Tony Richie at Miami, and now Jon Zeringue at LSU, great, we're stocking the NCAA ranks with good players....

The worst part is, Zeringue insisted he really wanted to go pro right away and skip school. JR muffed up negotiations so badly that he's now going to school....

With all the money they saved in the first round this year, there was no need to be a tightwad.....

Soxboyrob
08-21-2001, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Uhhhh, I was sitting right there. He and Maggs looked at each ethor, neither said a word, and Rowand hesitated before taking control. That hesitation and lapse in concentration on catching the ball caused him to miss it.


Actually, Rowand could clearly be seen calling the ball on the replay. He began calling it within about 3-5 strides from the ball. As the ball hit the palm of his glove, his eyes were on Maggs instead of the ball. The ball hit the palm and fell to the ground. I think some of this can be attributed to unfamiliarity w/ the centerfield position. If he's truly new to the position, he's gonna have to learn to trust that when he calls one of the cornerfielders off the ball, they will not still collide w/ him, which appeared to be his biggest concern during Friday's gaffe.

Jerry_Manuel
08-21-2001, 09:21 AM
What I don't get is they stepped up to the plate and got the deal with Borchard done. Why won't they do it for a catcher? Are any of these guys asking for more then Borchard got? If so then maybe you can see his story, but if these guys are making reasonable demands then JR is totally to blame.

HootieMcBoob
08-21-2001, 04:02 PM
Looking at that lineup originally posted, it occured to me that we have NO left handed hitters in the lineup (well 2 switch hitters). We could use some pop from the left side (NOT liefer either)

And, i heard that borchard is leading the league w/ 12 errors in CF for the barons

Jerry_Manuel
08-21-2001, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by HootieMcBoob
Looking at that lineup originally posted, it occured to me that we have NO left handed hitters in the lineup (well 2 switch hitters). We could use some pop from the left side (NOT liefer either)

And, i heard that borchard is leading the league w/ 12 errors in CF for the barons

Well Borchard is a switch hitter so that should be nice. Well from what I understand that AA park is pretty big. So for a guy just learning the position we can cut the kid some slack.