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View Full Version : Dusty Baker is such a better manager than Manuel it's scary


SoxxoS
05-31-2003, 08:40 PM
Managing games during the game is one thing. Baker exceeds Manuel there, no doubt. However, managing OFF the field is equally, if not MORE important. The Scrubs just won a 15 inning game on a Sosa single. Dusty Baker runs out there, and hugs Sosa and Patterson, hitting them on the back. It looks like it would be fun to play for him. Although we hardly win any games in extra innings (if at all) that is something that you would NEVER see Manuel do. I realize it isn't in his character. I realize teams can succeed with Manuel type managers. However, a guy like Baker or Pinella would be a welcome change on the Southside in my opinion. Our team (also known as the Domincan League All-Stars) goes through the motions and it looks like fun is absent from the team.

If Baker replaced Manuel, would be be sitting in first place? Probably not. But the way the Cubs play under him is an UNBELIEVEABLE change than under Don Baylor, one has to really, really wonder how much the manager means to a team.

Viva Magglio
05-31-2003, 08:42 PM
In the eternally easy 20/20 hindsight, wouldn't it have been smart if KW fired JM in the offseason and brought little Darren's father to the South Side?

As for that win today, the Cubs had the golden horseshoe up their asses today, as Murph would say. Houston executed so poorly, and the Cubs defensively being in the right place at the right time did not help the the Astros any further. It is yet another storybook win that the media will fawn upon and make all of us White Sox fans sick. And there is a Cubs Kool-Aid Flash Flood Warning in effective until further notice. More salt on the open wound.

Daver
05-31-2003, 08:43 PM
There is no way I would want Dusty Baker as the manager of the Sox.

SoxxoS
05-31-2003, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by daver
There is no way I would want Dusty Baker as the manager of the Sox.

Reasoning daver...???

Viva Magglio
05-31-2003, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by daver
There is no way I would want Dusty Baker as the manager of the Sox.

He would be an upgrade, daver.

Daver
05-31-2003, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Reasoning daver...???

Easy,he is not that good a manager.He underacheived a lot with some of the talent he was given in San Fran,which is why he was welcome to leave.

Hangar18
05-31-2003, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
In the eternally easy 20/20 hindsight, wouldn't it have been smart if KW fired JM in the offseason and brought little Darren's father to the South Side?

Only as a PR Ploy would I have given the guy a shot. The Media was calling for his Hiring as early as after the ALL STAR BREAK last year!!!! The SOX, in an effort to siphon off some of the Media Lust for everything cubbie, should have rode in and stole him away. The Media basically HIRED Dusty Baker, (take a moment and think about that one. now that you think about it, the media hired him...didnt they?) the cubs simply gave him a call, and signed the check. The Media was in Love with him from the get-go and its Arguable to Debaate what his merits are, but one thing is clear.........The Media wouldve been on our side, even if it was for just a little while. Sometimes thats all the spark you need to Resurrect a dying Franchise. (hear that JR? Remember how you bought the Sox in '81, promised big things, then signed big-time catcher Fisk to back it up? remember how excited you got us? remember how we believed everything you said afterwards?)

dllrbll7
05-31-2003, 09:10 PM
The one thing that i have noticed Baker doin alot that shows how smart he is, is the double switch. Meaning he replaces the pitcher late in the game but while he does that he also replaces a fielder and then switches their places in the batting lineup. I havent watched many scrubs games but i have seen him do it at least twice in the couple games i have watched

Hangar18
05-31-2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by dllrbll7
The one thing that i have noticed Baker doin alot that shows how smart he is, is the double switch. Meaning he replaces the pitcher late in the game but while he does that he also replaces a fielder and then switches their places in the batting lineup. I havent watched many scrubs games but i have seen him do it at least twice in the couple games i have watched

I Used to call that the old "RIGGLEMAN SWITCHEROO"....then Baylor got here, and I called it the "Flim-Flam" move....
But with Baker here now, he has certainly earned the name Flim Flam Man 2. I kind of hate that move. Wastes a lot of time, Wastes players off the bench, and is basically baseballs version of a Lineup Loophole. Of course, if the NL had a DH, they certainly wouldnt be Flimming and Flamming just to avoid the dang pitcher batting now would they?

TornLabrum
05-31-2003, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
I Used to call that the old "RIGGLEMAN SWITCHEROO"....then Baylor got here, and I called it the "Flim-Flam" move....
But with Baker here now, he has certainly earned the name Flim Flam Man 2. I kind of hate that move. Wastes a lot of time, Wastes players off the bench, and is basically baseballs version of a Lineup Loophole. Of course, if the NL had a DH, they certainly wouldnt be Flimming and Flamming just to avoid the dang pitcher batting now would they?

The double switch is as old as poor-hitting pitchers. Hell, Marty Marion used to use it when he managed the Sox in the '50s. NL fans seem to think it takes a genius to employ it. Truth is, my mother, who knows nothing about the game, could probably figure it out in about 30 seconds.

DonkeyKongerko
05-31-2003, 11:43 PM
I think Dusty would be bored managing any AL team, let alone the Sox.

MHOUSE
06-01-2003, 12:56 AM
Baker is a great manager. Every Flub player said he came into SP and the first thing he said was to lose the lovable loser tag. This guy just won't accept slack play and meh we'll win next year. I have no doubt that he would be an upgrade from Manuel.

fquaye149
06-01-2003, 02:08 AM
it's odd that so-called sox fans will not GET OFF BAKER'S JUNK. here's a guy who left injury liability KERRY WOOD in for ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY pitches in the early days of the month of MAY. and you want to give him mad props cuz he hugged the biggest jerk in baseball? come on now. let's look at actual decisions. i'd rather have an allegedly useless manager like manuel than one who will risk one of his best players when it's most likely not necessary. in july kerry wood will blow out his elbow again, thanks in part to baker leaving him in for some LONNNNG appearances and then the cubs will finish behind the pirates. you just watch. then dusty and his little cute kids who fit right in with the cubs atmosphere(they're like little beanie baby dustys) will be scraping the cellar where they belong

Nellie_Fox
06-01-2003, 02:13 AM
Originally posted by fquaye149
it's odd that so-called sox fans will not GET OFF BAKER'S JUNK. here's a guy who left injury liability KERRY WOOD in for ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY pitches in the early days of the month of MAY. and you want to give him mad props cuz he hugged the biggest jerk in baseball? come on now. let's look at actual decisions. i'd rather have an allegedly useless manager like manuel than one who will risk one of his best players when it's most likely not necessary. in july kerry wood will blow out his elbow again, thanks in part to baker leaving him in for some LONNNNG appearances and then the cubs will finish behind the pirates. you just watch. then dusty and his little cute kids who fit right in with the cubs atmosphere(they're like little beanie baby dustys) will be scraping the cellar where they belong Hey fquaye, I agree with your post. Now learn where your shift key is, so your posts are readable. I swear, I'm going to put all you lazy SOB's who can't reach your little finger over to the shift key on ignore.

Daver
06-01-2003, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Hey fquaye, I agree with your post. Now learn where your shift key is, so your posts are readable. I swear, I'm going to put all you lazy SOB's who can't reach your little finger over to the shift key on ignore.

I already did that Nellie.If they can't make the effort to make their posts readable,I ain't gonna make the effort to read it.

WhiteSoxWinner
06-01-2003, 02:35 AM
Originally posted by fquaye149
it's odd that so-called sox fans will not GET OFF BAKER'S JUNK. here's a guy who left injury liability KERRY WOOD in for ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY pitches in the early days of the month of MAY. and you want to give him mad props cuz he hugged the biggest jerk in baseball? come on now. let's look at actual decisions. i'd rather have an allegedly useless manager like manuel than one who will risk one of his best players when it's most likely not necessary. in july kerry wood will blow out his elbow again, thanks in part to baker leaving him in for some LONNNNG appearances and then the cubs will finish behind the pirates. you just watch. then dusty and his little cute kids who fit right in with the cubs atmosphere(they're like little beanie baby dustys) will be scraping the cellar where they belong

Great point my friend (and I won't even quibble over the spaces and the shift key ). Dusty is a tool and will regret some of the moves he has made early in the season when it really counts. I am not a fan of JM, but I won't be saying that Dusty Baker is the savior either.

He is the perfect Northside manager. Someone with a name that isn't that good, but will be asociated with the Northside.

T Dog
06-01-2003, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
...
He is the perfect Northside manager. Someone with a name that isn't that good, but will be asociated with the Northside.

Remember all those pennants Leo Durocher brought to Wrigley?

Many people have questioned Dusty Baker's handling of pitching staffs. He also lost a game this season by not pinch-hitting for Zambrano with the bases loaded and one out in a one-run game, leaving the pitcher in to ground into a doubleplay and give up more runs to put the game out of reach. It's not like Baker would have had to go to Paul Konerko for a bat on the bench.

Mostly, though, I like Baker because he changes his lineup so frequently. For some reason, the Chicago media fawns over the practice when he does it.

fquaye149
06-01-2003, 01:43 PM
for the purposes of all the complainers:

Maybe I wasn't taking you seriously when you acted like grizzled old men. Is your eyesight really that bad that you can't read sentences unless they are capitalized at the beginning? Or are you just hanging on to the last bastion of education in your life? Am I being way out of line here, or is nitpicking always nitpicking?

(capitalized so that certain people would even bother to read it)

PaleHoseGeorge
06-01-2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
The double switch is as old as poor-hitting pitchers. Hell, Marty Marion used to use it when he managed the Sox in the '50s. NL fans seem to think it takes a genius to employ it. Truth is, my mother, who knows nothing about the game, could probably figure it out in about 30 seconds.

Nothing is more lame than National League fans claiming their version of baseball has more "strategy" by virtue of letting the pitcher bat. They hold up the ol' double-switch as some sort genius concept.

If it's late, you're losing (or the game is tied) and you're trying to push across an important run, what the hell choice does any N.L. manager have but finangle something of value from the #9 spot in his order--including the ol' double-switch? Gimme a break...

Bill James put a torch to the whole "more strategy" logic in one of his abstracts 20 years ago. He showed how A.L. managers have 3-4 times as much strategic thinking to do than their counterparst in the N.L. who are FORCED to make moves simply because the rules stipulate the pitcher bats. As James' notes, that is NOT strategy. Everybody makes the exact same choice, thus it is simply common sense.

National Leaguers' logic is as false as a $3 bill.

Daver
06-01-2003, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by fquaye149
for the purposes of all the complainers:

Maybe I wasn't taking you seriously when you acted like grizzled old men. Is your eyesight really that bad that you can't read sentences unless they are capitalized at the beginning? Or are you just hanging on to the last bastion of education in your life? Am I being way out of line here, or is nitpicking always nitpicking?

(capitalized so that certain people would even bother to read it)


This has been covered before,you can read it here. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=15821&s=&perpage=15&pagenumber=1&display=show)

ozzman
06-01-2003, 03:06 PM
It looks like it would be fun to play for him.

Ask Wood's and Prior's elbow how fun it is to pitch for Dusty after this season is over and both of their arms fall off.

MarkEdward
06-01-2003, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by ozzman
Ask Wood's and Prior's elbow how fun it is to pitch for Dusty after this season is over and both of their arms fall off.

Serious question: how many arms did Dusty destroy in San Francisco?

Tragg
06-02-2003, 12:38 AM
Baker and Manuel are similar style managers - both are poor strategically. Baker is probably better in motivating and giving players confidence. Baker is also a little better at talent evaluation - putting his best players on the field.
But he had a lot more talent in SF than we had here. And the Cubs have a lot of improving young players right now. I thought the guy the Cubs had before Baylor was a good manager - he won in 1998 with a bunch of crap players and sosa.
But an improved version of jerry manuel is not what the Sox need. The Sox need a manager who really understands personnel - someone to tell kenny williams precisely what he needs and who has enough credibility to demand that kenny get it and/or to help kenny williams get it. That is why Buck S would have been a great manager here and also why (coupled with his price tag) he isn't here.