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cheeses_h_rice
08-20-2001, 01:41 PM
Trying to figure out what our staff will look like for next year...your thoughts appreciated. Unfortunately, I count 17 guys as potential members of the squad from day 1. I have asterisked the guys I would leave off the roster.


Starters:

1. Mark Buehrle
2. Sean Lowe
3. Jon Garland *
4. Kip Wells
5. Jim Parque
6. Danny Wright *

(would put either Garland or Wright in the pen...or even K. Wells)

Relievers:

7. Bill Simas
8. Bobby Howry
9. Kelly Wunsch
10. Keith Foulke
11. Antonio Osuna
12. Alan Embree *(god I hope not -- is he even signed for '02?)
13. Rocky Biddle
14. Gary Glover
15. Lorenzo Barcelo
16. Matt Ginter *
17. Ken Vining *


That leaves 14 pitchers, probably 1 too many. Is Glover signed for '02? Simas?

Jerry_Manuel
08-20-2001, 01:49 PM
Embree has an option, I'm not sure if it's his or the clubs. I doubt he is back with the team next year. As far as I know Simas is a free agent, but I could be wrong.

cheeses_h_rice
08-20-2001, 01:51 PM
Does anyone know why Howry has been so terrible this year? Is it mostly due to his surgery, or has he just lost it? I know the Sox just re-signed him, but if he and Osuna are going to be blowing games left and right, I'd just as soon deal them for more consistent help.

Jerry_Manuel
08-20-2001, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Does anyone know why Howry has been so terrible this year? Is it mostly due to his surgery, or has he just lost it? I know the Sox just re-signed him, but if he and Osuna are going to be blowing games left and right, I'd just as soon deal them for more consistent help.

I think it is the surgery myself. He is better then he has shown this year. Osuna might be in the same boat next year where he doesn't pitch as good because he is coming off surgery.

Randar68
08-20-2001, 02:30 PM
I think it is the surgery myself. He is better then he has shown this year. Osuna might be in the same boat next year where he doesn't pitch as good because he is coming off surgery.

This is where I think everyone is worried. However, Osuna, Rauch, Parque, Barcelo, etc. will have more than twice as long to recover from their surgeries than Howry and Baldwin had. This, added to spring training leading into the season gives me the feeling that they will all be at or near 100% by the time next season starts.

BTW, Simas is an unrestricted free agent after this season. With Osuna, Howry and Foulke, next year's bullpen is likely too expensive to be able to resign Simas as well.


Also, as per Cheeses' list of next year's rotation, I think Buehrle is about the only one garaunteed a spot. After that, it's an all-out competition between Glover, Wright, Rauch, Parque, Kip, Lowe, and Garland for the other 4 spots.


Also, Embree will likely be gone and Biddle will likely have shoulder surgery in the offseason....

Next year's bullpen:

Foulke
Howry
Osuna
Wunsch
Barcelo

Add in the 3 who don't end up making the rotation from the above list... and that's a 13-man bullpen.....too many....not even including Biddle, Embree, Simas, or Ginter...

cheeses_h_rice
08-20-2001, 02:48 PM
Randar, do you really think Rauch could make the squad from day one? That'd be awesome, if so. I was thinking he might work his way into the rotation mid-year.

Randar68
08-20-2001, 03:12 PM
Randar, do you really think Rauch could make the squad from day one? That'd be awesome, if so. I was thinking he might work his way into the rotation mid-year.

Well, I think Rauch, although it was only 6 starts, gained a lot of experience from his short stay at AAA. He will come back fresh and ready to go. I have said this before. The Sox want him in the rotation as soon as he's ready. I think if the competition is even close for the rotation spot, Rauch will get the benefit of the doubt. Sox brass considers him #1 on potential out of all the prospects, including Buehrle.

All that being said, they don't want to rush him, but if he's 100% and throwing as well as even a Garland or Wells, I think he'll get the start. IMO, the Sox are looking at the success of Oswalt and Sheets, and envisioning the same type of performance from Rauch next year.....

charlie browned
08-20-2001, 09:22 PM
You asterisked Garland?
Don't you know it's sacrilege to asterisk Garland on this board?

Reinsdorf believes in developing his triple A pitchers at the major league level, just as he believes in developing high school basketball players and would-be incoming college freshmen at the NBA level.

Jerry_Manuel
08-20-2001, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by charlie browned
You asterisked Garland?
Don't you know it's sacrilege to asterisk Garland on this board?


Do you have something against Jon Garland?

charlie browned
08-20-2001, 09:31 PM
See--sacrilege!

No--I subscribe to all the hype surrounding him. It's just that 15 years ago--or, on some teams today, like the Yankees or Braves--he'd still be developing at the triple A level. He's painful to watch, because he has great stuff--but little experience, little direction, or both.

KVinc
08-21-2001, 03:36 PM
glover cannot be in the rotation anymore yes he can pitch five quality innings but how about some more. Kip when he was doing good he was going deep in the game.

Danny Wright was in Double A last time we brought a pitcher from Double A (Kip wells) he had a great rookie year and then the next year his ass was grass and the hitters were smoking him.

So I'd like Danny Wright to spend maybe two years in triple A ball and probably one more for Rauch.

so my rotation for next year would be:

1. Buerhle
2. Terminator
3. Parque
4. Garland
5. Lowe(this will be temporary only for 2002)

Pen:
6.Glover(Long relief)
7.Barcelo(Long relief/Middle relief/setup-man)
8. Simas(middle Relief)
9. Osuna(middle relief/setup-man)
10. Howry(Closer) :) j/k howry would be a setup-man
11. Wunsch(Lefty specialist/middle relief)
12. Foulke(Closer)

the reason i left Rocky Biddle off was that he too i belive though twenty five has never spent a day in triple a ball because of surgery.

the major desicion for the pen in 2003 will be do we let go of Lowe or Glover(I'd pick glover) which would open up the spot for Jon Rauch, also another desicion will be if we will cut loose the then 31 years old Billy Simas to open up a spot for Danny Wright.

Maybe after winning the world series in 2002 we can trade Billy Simas and Rocky Biddle for a lead-off man prosepct and another decent catching prosect to back up Miguel Olivo.

Jerry_Manuel
08-21-2001, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by KVinc
glover cannot be in the rotation anymore yes he can pitch five quality innings but how about some more. Kip when he was doing good he was going deep in the game.

Pen:
8. Simas(middle Relief)

Danny Wright was in Double A last time we brought a pitcher from Double A (Kip wells) he had a great rookie year and then the next year his ass was grass and the hitters were smoking him.
So I'd like Danny Wright to spend maybe two years in triple A ball and probably one more for Rauch.


First thing Simas is a free agent so he's not a lock to return. You say Glover cannot start because he can't pitch more then 5 innings, yet you have Jim Parque starting! You can't compare Wells and Wright. Kip Wells is a headcase and the Sox screwed him up by naming him the number two starter. That's not going to happen with Wright. Perhaps Wright does need more time in the minors but he and Wells are 2 different pitchers.

KVinc
08-21-2001, 04:04 PM
i know simas is a free-agent thats why i posted my post with the sox possibly giving Simas a one year deal in mind.

Chisox353014
08-21-2001, 05:11 PM
You know, looking at that list, the only 100% guaranteed lock is that Beurhle will be our #1starter. Foulke will most likely be the closer too, but almost everything else is up in the air. Parque, Garland, Lowe, Glover, Kip Wells, Wright, Biddle, Ginter, Barcelo....all these guys could be starters or long relievers or in the minors or gone by Opening Day. It's kind of impossible to say now who will be on the team without knowing how all these guys will come back from injuries. KW and JM will have their work cut out for them in Spring Training sorting out this staff. All I know is that I want Embree working at McDonalds next year.

Jerry_Manuel
08-21-2001, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Chisox353014
You know, looking at that list, the only 100% guaranteed lock is that Beurhle will be our #1starter. Foulke will most likely be the closer too, but almost everything else is up in the air. Parque, Garland, Lowe, Glover, Kip Wells, Wright, Biddle, Ginter, Barcelo....all these guys could be starters or long relievers or in the minors or gone by Opening Day. It's kind of impossible to say now who will be on the team without knowing how all these guys will come back from injuries. KW and JM will have their work cut out for them in Spring Training sorting out this staff.

The Trib said this today:
"Ginter has been a disappointment in relief, while Barcelo and Wunsch may not be ready to return from surgery until June or later.

The Sox never were able to replace Simas or his leadership, and the bullpen has crumbled. After missing 2001 due to elbow surgery and entering free agency, Simas has apparently been deemed expendable by management."

doublem23
08-21-2001, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by KVinc
Danny Wright was in Double A last time we brought a pitcher from Double A (Kip wells) he had a great rookie year and then the next year his ass was grass and the hitters were smoking him.

:burly
How easily everyone forgets me.

Originally posted by KVinc
So I'd like Danny Wright to spend maybe two years in triple A ball and probably one more for Rauch.

Sticking Danny Wright in Charlotte would be a bad idea, IMO. He's not the type of pitcher you wanna stick in a stadium that small.

:wright
I'll get my a$$ handed to me on a platter.