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View Full Version : Gammons calls for Sox(Chi not Bo)to be contracted on ESPN Radio


Grobber33
05-29-2003, 01:19 PM
Dont know how many of you like(or dislike)Peter Gammons,but this morning(Thursday)on Kornheiser's ESPN Radio show,he called for the White Sox to be contracted when the current collective barginning contract runs out.He said that 4 teams should go and mentioned both Fla teams,and the Sox(not the Twins).
Reminds me of June 1988 when Governor Thompson twisted the arms of several downstate Rebublicans who could care less about Chicago or the Sox,cashed in some favors,and got them to vote at the last second for the new Stadium(that is now of course 13 seasons old).Otherwise the Sox were moving to Tampa Bay and we would have never gotten another AL team. I remember several Tampa TV crews at Old Comiskey for the Sox-Yankees game that night.I asked one of them "what the hell they were doing here?". The guy in his red neck voice said "we're filimin our Baseball team". I retorted that they would have to wait for expantion and that he'd have to see the Sox in Sarasota in March or come up here(to Cichigao)during the season. He laughed and said,"you all aint got the votes to keep that team--it's ours!" I responded that "you obviously dont know Illinois politics". He just laughed. Well about 1 am,after Governor Jim worked his magic,and the Sox issued a release saying they were staying in Chicago,I saw those goofs from Fla crossing 35th street to where their TV truck was parked(it's the site where the current park now stands)and I yelled outl, "Have a nice trip! See you in Sarasota!,you all come back now,,hear?" They were pissed!!!
This story was printed by Sox historian RICH LINDBERG in a book he wrote about 8 or so years ago. LES GROBSTEIN

Brian26
05-29-2003, 01:25 PM
Stealing First in a Two-Team Town?

Got to love it when Les starts spinnin' the yarn.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-29-2003, 01:29 PM
And recounted here at WSI!

Save our Sox! June, 1988 (http://whitesoxinteractive.com/History&Glory/SaveOurSox.htm)

Sox Fans, who loves ya, baby?

:gulp:

sti3
05-29-2003, 01:34 PM
Contracting the sox makes pretty good sense to me, actually. If you have to contract someone, that is.

Aaron

Brian26
05-29-2003, 01:34 PM
Does anyone actually like the proposed Armour Park plan after seeing the proposed dimensions? It's a Chicago version of the Polo Grounds, and I think it looks terrible. I like the exterior and the urban planning aspects, the field dimensions were terrible.

JUGGERNAUT
05-29-2003, 01:40 PM
GO WHITESOX!

Gammon should be contracted from ESPN! :angry:

Daver
05-29-2003, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by sti3
Contracting the sox makes pretty good sense to me, actually. If you have to contract someone, that is.

Aaron

Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

A.T. Money
05-29-2003, 01:51 PM
I agree with the Armour Park thing. The dimensions were a bit shady.....

hold2dibber
05-29-2003, 01:51 PM
Below is the text of an e-mail I just sent to Gammons:


"I understand that you have called for the contraction of the White Sox when the current MLB CBA is up. This is perhaps the most shortsighted and ludicrous comments I've ever heard in the national sports media. It is true that the Sox have struggled mightily with respect to attendance in the last few years. But these things are cyclical. Compare the Sox to the Twins. Since 1990, the Sox have outdrawn the Twins in 12 of 13 seasons! The only exception is last year, when the Twins won the division (but drew less than '00 when the Sox one the division).

The animosity and distrust rampant among Sox fans since the '94 strike (for which many Sox fans perceive Reinsdorf to be responsible) and the '97 "white flag trade" will abate, either when the Sox put a few good seasons together or when Reinsdorf is no longer owner. The Sox are a sleeping giant. There is much backlash against the Cubs - Wrigley is not a family friendly place and there are tons and tons of people around the Chicago area that would return in droves to Comiskey if/when the organization could reconnect with the fan base. Just two or three years ago, the Twins truly did seem like an ideal contraction candidate - they couldn't win and they couldn't draw, and they were in a tiny market. How short sighted that analysis seems now, though, doesn't it? To suggest that the Sox should be contracted, when they surely can win (if only they had competent management) and can draw (Chicago is the 3rd biggest market in the country!) is even more absurd than talk of contracting the Twins a few years ago. The South Side has 100 years of baseball history in this franchise. A few down years (which EVERY organization goes through) surely is not enough to wipe out that century of history. You owe the White Sox and, more importantly, White Sox fans, an apology."

valposoxfan
05-29-2003, 01:52 PM
When the collective bargaining agreement comes around, I can think of several teams that should be contracted ahead of the White Sox, namely Detroit, Kansas City, and Milwaukee (won't happen though because of Selig). Their attendance is far and away worse annually than the White Sox and they hardly pull in the money through the ticket window, merchandise, etc. that the White Sox do. I've had just about enough of Gammons and his East Coast erection. His insight into baseball is s*** and his wet dream for the Red Sox blinds his vision of the state of baseball and what is actually occuring in the Majors. Leave us alone, Gammons. The Yankees are only a 1/2 game back. Go White Sox.
(I'd like to see baseball fight Mayor Daley anyways. Good luck MLB.)

LuvSox
05-29-2003, 02:19 PM
JR has too many buddies in MLB to be contracted. Never happen. Gammons, on the other hand, is reserving a place for my foot in his arse as we speak.

Daver
05-29-2003, 02:25 PM
Boston Gammons might want to read this before he thinks either of the Fla. will bow out easily. (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2003-05-28-antitrust-exemption-florida_x.htm)

harwar
05-29-2003, 02:56 PM
Its a darn good thing no one pays any attention to that boston bay blowhard.

A.T. Money
05-29-2003, 03:02 PM
If any team should be contracted, it should be a previous EXPANSION team. Leave the Sox and Tiggers alone...two ORIGINAL American League franchises. The Twins are also an original team, although not in the original city.

Irishsox1
05-29-2003, 03:30 PM
Shouldn't Gammons be reporting on the Red Sox and Pedro's sore arm? As for contracting a team, why not the Red Sox? They haven't won a world series since 1918, they can't get a new stadium set up and they offer no real challange to the Yankees. The White Sox contracting is a total joke. We all know that the contraction talk was a bargining tool at the last mlb/pa meetings.

As for contraction teams, my top four would be:

1. Expos
2. Tampa Bay
3. Florida
4. Minnesota

MHOUSE
05-29-2003, 03:33 PM
If the Sox blow up again this year then they'll unload payroll and attendence will drop way low. We could be the equivalent of the Tigers and have a bad team and no attendence. Suddenly we don't look so great in the eyes of who shouldn't be eliminated. I think it should be:

Expos-unless they move to D.C.
Devil Rays
Marlins-if they unload their current small pool of talent then they have nothing to offer
Sox-we could be in that position, but I highly doubt it could/would happen
Brewers or Twins-could they contract the Brewers and move the Twinkies into Miller Park?

Procol Harum
05-29-2003, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
I remember several Tampa TV crews at Old Comiskey for the Sox-Yankees game that night.I asked one of them "what the hell they were doing here?". The guy in his red neck voice said "we're filimin our Baseball team".

Hey Grobstein, Gammons is a goofball and may proceed to Gehenna, not pass go, and not collect his $200. You, with the recurrent anti-Southern bigotry which you so often displayed on your radio program on the Score, may join him.

Foulke You
05-29-2003, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Dont know how many of you like(or dislike)Peter Gammons,but this morning(Thursday)on Kornheiser's ESPN Radio show,he called for the White Sox to be contracted when the current collective barginning contract runs out.He said that 4 teams should go and mentioned both Fla teams,and the Sox(not the Twins).

Hey Les, I didn't get to hear the Gammons interview on Kornheiser. Did he go into any detail or offer any facts as to why he included the White Sox in the list or did he just blurt it out? Did Kornheiser ask him to expand on why he picked those teams? What a complete tool Gammons is. Contract a 100 year old charter member of the American League? Un-frikkin-real!

Hangar18
05-29-2003, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
Shouldn't Gammons be reporting on the Red Sox and Pedro's sore arm? As for contracting a team, why not the Red Sox? They haven't won a world series since 1918, they can't get a new stadium set up and they offer no real challange to the Yankees. The White Sox contracting is a total joke. We all know that the contraction talk was a bargining tool at the last mlb/pa meetings.

As for contraction teams, my top four would be:

1. Expos
2. Tampa Bay
3. Florida
4. Minnesota

I agree Wholeheartedly.
Expos should go because noone owns them.
Tampa Bay.....ahhahaah, dont make me laugh, giving away players (McGriff for seniorcitizen infielder)
Florida because its the Expo owners in disguise. Theyre trade of Clement/Alfonseca because theyre "broke" then realizing foolishly they needed Pitching after all, then running out and Spending BIG MONEY (thought they were broke) on a Catcher....this Tomfoolery should be rewarded with an Exit and a foot in the ass out of the MLB, and the
Twins...for planning their Contraction Party, Keg, cocktail wieners, band, and All prematurely, and letting Prior slip thru their hands. They also get a swift kick in the ass for an Exit.

Grobber33
05-29-2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
Hey Les, I didn't get to hear the Gammons interview on Kornheiser. Did he go into any detail or offer any facts as to why he included the White Sox in the list or did he just blurt it out? Did Kornheiser ask him to expand on why he picked those teams? What a complete tool Gammons is. Contract a 100 year old charter member of the American League? Un-frikkin-real!

Gammons said since the Sox were 5th from the bottom in MLB attendence(I dont know if that's true-I have'nt had the interest in checking that stat)and since attendence has been bad period-they should get contracted.Kornheiser quickly switched topics. I will see if we have it,and play that comment Sunday with TDUB. We are now on after the Sox Post game show on Sunday afternoons.I will ask Ernie Scanton(Producer)to lift it. It's worth playing again.Also,I'll let Adam,the Mac,Jurko and Harry Executive Producer know about it.

Grobber33
05-29-2003, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Procol Harum
Hey Grobstein, Gammons is a goofball and may proceed to Gehenna, not pass go, and not collect his $200. You, with the recurrent anti-Southern bigotry which you so often displayed on your radio program on the Score, may join him.

Just quoting the guys from Tampa back in 1988. Remember,,,if the shoe fits.......
Bet I have more friends in the South(and North for that matter)than you have anyway!!

Hullett_Fan
05-29-2003, 04:35 PM
Contract the Sox. Kick JR out.

Combine Sox with Cubs (Best players on each team stay with new one...would still need to trade for bullpen help :D: )

Change the name of Cubs to something better

Build a new ballpark in S. loop for the 'new chicago team' (i.e. don't play at the Cell or the Urinal)

Chicago finally wins a World Series!

Sounds good to me :cool:

ChiSoxBobette
05-29-2003, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Dont know how many of you like(or dislike)Peter Gammons,but this morning(Thursday)on Kornheiser's ESPN Radio show,he called for the White Sox to be contracted when the current collective barginning contract runs out.He said that 4 teams should go and mentioned both Fla teams,and the Sox(not the Twins).
Reminds me of June 1988 when Governor Thompson twisted the arms of several downstate Rebublicans who could care less about Chicago or the Sox,cashed in some favors,and got them to vote at the last second for the new Stadium(that is now of course 13 seasons old).Otherwise the Sox were moving to Tampa Bay and we would have never gotten another AL team. I remember several Tampa TV crews at Old Comiskey for the Sox-Yankees game that night.I asked one of them "what the hell they were doing here?". The guy in his red neck voice said "we're filimin our Baseball team". I retorted that they would have to wait for expantion and that he'd have to see the Sox in Sarasota in March or come up here(to Cichigao)during the season. He laughed and said,"you all aint got the votes to keep that team--it's ours!" I responded that "you obviously dont know Illinois politics". He just laughed. Well about 1 am,after Governor Jim worked his magic,and the Sox issued a release saying they were staying in Chicago,I saw those goofs from Fla crossing 35th street to where their TV truck was parked(it's the site where the current park now stands)and I yelled outl, "Have a nice trip! See you in Sarasota!,you all come back now,,hear?" They were pissed!!!
This story was printed by Sox historian RICH LINDBERG in a book he wrote about 8 or so years ago. LES GROBSTEIN

I'm sure the horsesass gammons will be US Celluar for the All-Star game though. He's another espn ass@#$% who thinks baseball is only played on the east or west coasts or at gigley field SCREW HIM and if the moron is at Sox park for the All-Star game I'll tell the little twirp that myself.
:angry:

Foulke You
05-29-2003, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Gammons said since the Sox were 5th from the bottom in MLB attendence(I dont know if that's true-I have'nt had the interest in checking that stat)and since attendence has been bad period-they should get contracted.Kornheiser quickly switched topics. I will see if we have it,and play that comment Sunday with TDUB. We are now on after the Sox Post game show on Sunday afternoons.I will ask Ernie Scanton(Producer)to lift it. It's worth playing again.Also,I'll let Adam,the Mac,Jurko and Harry Executive Producer know about it.

Wow, that is an idiotic statement by Gammons. I mean, while the Sox have struggled with attendance since the late '90s their TV ratings were ranked #6 overall in MLB and they aren't bleeding money like the Devil Rays, Expos, and Twins were. Reinsdorf makes sure of that by keeping the payroll down. By his logic, I suppose the Tigers, another AL charter member who is struggling worse than the Sox for attendance should also be contracted. That is ridiculous. I had little respect for Boston Gammons before this comment, my opinion of him has dropped even more. He is a typical ESPN national "analyst" who likes to sound like they know what they are talking about but really don't know anything outside of their narrow focus (i.e. Boston, New York).

hold2dibber
05-29-2003, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
I mean, while the Sox have struggled with attendance since the late '90s their TV ratings were ranked #6 overall in MLB

Is that true? For what time period? What is your source?

Mammoo
05-29-2003, 06:03 PM
What is the Armour Park thing? :?:

Thanks,

Bob

Daver
05-29-2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Mammoo
What is the Armour Park thing? :?:




Right here. (http://whitesoxinteractive.com/FixComiskey/Bess/Conversation1.htm)

A.T. Money
05-29-2003, 06:30 PM
I'm really getting sick of Gammons. I love ESPN, but man, it's so East Coast biased, with the exception of the Giants, it makes me sick.

:boston
"That's not true. I picked the Twins to go far into the postseason."

:bcolon
"Usted apenas pissed porque el Sox rojo no podrķa conseguirme en un comercio."

**Translation

You're just pissed because the Red Sox couldn't get me in a trade.

Foulke You
05-29-2003, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Is that true? For what time period? What is your source?

It was listed in the Sun-Times last year. I don't know what date. I do remember our Sox were #6 and the Cubs were #1 with the Yankees coming in at #2.

valposoxfan
05-29-2003, 07:07 PM
I'm sure the fact that the Sox are WGN at times helps. Braves probably number three solely because they are on TBS...

LuvSox
05-29-2003, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by valposoxfan
I'm sure the fact that the Sox are WGN at times helps. Braves probably number three solely because they are on TBS...

Sox fans must be watching a lot of Braves games. Who else could stand their boring announcers? :D:

valposoxfan
05-29-2003, 08:41 PM
The Braves announcers are the best in the business. They do not make you want to gouge your eyes out with forks.

WhiteSoxWinner
05-29-2003, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by valposoxfan
The Braves announcers are the best in the business. They do not make you want to gouge your eyes out with forks.

You forgot this guy with your post...

:sahaf
Praise be the great one, what Valpo says is true. The Braves announcers are a source of strength and encouragement for all True Believers. Only the infidel would want to gouge out their eyes and roast their stomachs when they hear the words of the prophets who call the Braves telecasts. I tell you this truely.

T Dog
05-29-2003, 09:44 PM
The Twins don't even play in a baseball park. The Metrodome might make a good grain elevator, but there should be a federal law against playing baseball inside of it. Maybe the Twins could convert it into a parking garage and play on real grass outside. Until then, the Twins have to be the leading candidates for contraction.

Hangar18
05-29-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by T Dog
The Twins don't even play in a baseball park. The Metrodome might make a good grain elevator, but there should be a federal law against playing baseball inside of it. Maybe the Twins could convert it into a parking garage and play on real grass outside. Until then, the Twins have to be the leading candidates for contraction.

Man...that place is Awful. Ive read, heard, all kinds of stories about that place, and actually took a tour of the place, but wasnt the same as watching a real baseball game in there a couple of weeks ago. That place is not natural. I felt like I was on the Moon, in some cosmic bubble that was erected for Astronauts so they could enjoy one of Earths pastimes. The lights inside the place were even Surreal. It was like those flourescent lights inside a parking lot.....everything had a strange glow in there.......

Konerkoholic
05-29-2003, 11:57 PM
I hate Gammons. I hate Reynolds. I hate "Minnesota Twins" Baseball Tonight. That's all I have to say.

TornLabrum
05-30-2003, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by T Dog
The Twins don't even play in a baseball park. The Metrodome might make a good grain elevator, but there should be a federal law against playing baseball inside of it. Maybe the Twins could convert it into a parking garage and play on real grass outside. Until then, the Twins have to be the leading candidates for contraction.

To me the HumpDome looks like one of those buildings they store road salt in.

doogiec
05-30-2003, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Does anyone actually like the proposed Armour Park plan after seeing the proposed dimensions? It's a Chicago version of the Polo Grounds, and I think it looks terrible. I like the exterior and the urban planning aspects, the field dimensions were terrible.

I agree completely, looks like a huge amount of seats would be in the outfield, the field dimensions are a joke, the sightlines are weird and not suited for baseball and the hated "obstructed view seats" behind the posts would be preserved.

This appears to be a great example of someone building a stadium putting architecture ahead of what the fans need to enjoy the game. Quirkiness gone crazy.

If this is the best example of our alternatives, we may have done ok with what we got.

1951Campbell
05-30-2003, 10:22 AM
Gammons is a typical provincial east-coast tool who couldn't find any state that is not California, New York or in New England on a map.

A perfect kind of jack*** for Boston. God I'm glad I moved.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-30-2003, 10:42 AM
What I can't understand is why ANYBODY is surprised by Gammons' clueless viewpoint. In fact, somebody on the board recently conducted a poll to see what other teams (besides the Sox) were our favorites. The Boston Red Sox were runaway winners.

What the hell are you people thinking about?

Gammons is QUINTESSENTIALLY the typical Boston Red Sox fan! Have any of you EVER MET a Boston Red Sox fan? As a group they are--without question--the most insufferable, self-centered, egotistical pricks this side of the New York Yankees' fans. There is absolutely NOTHING in the world of baseball that matters to them if it didn't happen east of the Alleghenies.

Gammons wants to contract the White Sox? Give me frickin' break. If he had his way, he would contract EVERYTHING in baseball save the American League East.

Boston and their fans SUCK. Don't ever forget it.

xil357
05-30-2003, 10:50 AM
... how about moving the Twins back to Washington as the Senators? That's what they were before, right? Make Pohlad sell the team to an owner from the D.C. area, preferably a minority group.

Contract Tampa Bay and Montreal.

Eliminate the DH but add two roster spots to each team. Eliminate the leagues and re-form into a Western and Eastern Conference with two divisions of seven teams:

Atlantic: Mets, Yankees, Boston, Washington, Baltimore, Atlanta, Florida

Central: Detroit, Toronto, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Milwaukee

Midwest: White Sox, Cubs, St. Louis, Kansas City, Texas, Houston, Colorado

West: Anaheim, LA, Seattle, Oakland, San Francisco, San Diego, Arizona

This would reduce travel for all teams since they would be play more division games and make fewer cross-country road trips. (6 divisional opponents x 12 games vs. each = 72 games, 7 teams in other division within conference x 6 games vs. each = 42 games, 14 non-conference opponents x 3 games vs. each = 42 games, alternating home and road each year. Total 156 game season.) Geographic divisional rivalries will spark more fan interest and attendance. Have playoff teams be the two division champs and the two teams with the best records after that, with the division champs getting the top two seeds. Best record = home field.

dickallen15
05-30-2003, 10:52 AM
The fact that Gammons said it should be done, is proof that it never will or should be done. I may be wrong, but isn't the best part of Baseball Tonight when Gammons spouts something off and Bobby V quickly puts him in his place. Gammons looks very uncomfortable next to Valentine, because Valentine knows Gammons is full of crap.

UnderpantsGnome
05-30-2003, 11:23 AM
I heard PG on Baseball Tonight just the other day proclaiming that the White Sox are a team to watch out for this year, since they're still playing about 500 ball while half the team is slumping. Then he says this. Pick an opinion and stick to it for chrissake!

UnderpantsGnome
05-30-2003, 11:27 AM
That place is not natural. I felt like I was on the Moon, in some cosmic bubble that was erected for Astronauts so they could enjoy one of Earths pastimes. [/B]

LMAO!!! :D: :D: :D:

MRKARNO
05-30-2003, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by UnderpantsGnome
I heard PG on Baseball Tonight just the other day proclaiming that the White Sox are a team to watch out for this year, since they're still playing about 500 ball while half the team is slumping. Then he says this. Pick an opinion and stick to it for chrissake!

He is right in what he says above. Gammons, as much as we might not like it is not being hypocritical. When talking about contraction, he isn't referring to how well the team is doing, but how they are doign financially. I think he just doesnt get the philosophy of sox fans. Why should anyone support this crappy team? When the sox do well, They consistantly draw 25000 plus. When they're bad, that number drops by ten thousand.

I bet you that Anaheim was on the contraction list before they won the series. Now they average 40,000 a game. A similar thing would happen for the sox. The sox are like anaheim in that they averaged a low amount of fans in a big market. If the sox can get back on their winning ways for a period of a year or more, the sox would average 30-40K a year. I guarentee it. There is a huge market of people who just go to games for fun. To the average Chicagoan, when both teams are losing, Wrigley is much more fun to go to. When the sox are winning, the cell is the choice. The sox need to learn how to draw the non-diehard fans, of which there are a ton of in the area.

DC Sox Fan
05-30-2003, 11:40 AM
xil, you got some great ideas in there man. I especially like the idea of bringing the twinkies back here. How sweet that would be :)

Hangar18
05-30-2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by UnderpantsGnome
LMAO!!! :D: :D: :D:

Hey underpants....at least give me the Credit for the quote man!
:D:

T Dog
05-30-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by xil357
...
Midwest: White Sox, Cubs, St. Louis, Kansas City, Texas, Houston, Colorado...

When the subject of such realignment has come up in the past, the Sox have favored having the Cubs as division rivals. The Cubs have strongly opposed it. I have always believed that it would be hard to maintain the Cubbie mystique if they were finishing behind the Sox in the standings.

xil357
05-30-2003, 03:06 PM
I don't hate the Twins as a franchise. Move 'em back to Washington. I think their owner is terrible and they play in a horrible stadium. Ditka was right. The "Rollerdome" is good for tractor pulls, monster truck rallies, the Final Four, conventions, grain silo, livestock shows, Promise Keepers, anti-terrorism task force training, high-altitude bombing practice, anything but baseball and football. Or just rip the roof off and let the Vi-Queens play outdoors on grass.

However, if the Tribune Corp. had its way the Sox would be contracted. Never underestimate the power of an evil media mega-conglomorate.

roofshot
05-30-2003, 05:10 PM
Gammons is a parrott. He repeats information, he doesn't produce it. He may have a historical knowledge of baseball, but his ability to wrap his mind around anything that is new and offer up something insightful is non-existant. He is, at best, a person with connections, that can offer up breaking news from time to time.
His analyses are worthless, so I would put zero stock in what HE thinks about contraction, the Sox, or baseball as a business.

Daver
05-30-2003, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by roofshot
Gammons is a parrott. He repeats information, he doesn't produce it. He may have a historical knowledge of baseball, but his ability to wrap his mind around anything that is new and offer up something insightful is non-existant. He is, at best, a person with connections, that can offer up breaking news from time to time.
His analyses are worthless, so I would put zero stock in what HE thinks about contraction, the Sox, or baseball as a business.

Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

roofshot
05-30-2003, 05:12 PM
Hi Daver,
Good to be here. You guys rock.
Go SOX.

WinningUgly!
05-30-2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by roofshot
Gammons is a parrott. He repeats information, he doesn't produce it. He may have a historical knowledge of baseball, but his ability to wrap his mind around anything that is new and offer up something insightful is non-existant. He is, at best, a person with connections, that can offer up breaking news from time to time.
His analyses are worthless, so I would put zero stock in what HE thinks about contraction, the Sox, or baseball as a business.

I will give Gammons credit for one thing that still amazes me...getting his ugly mug on the $20 bill. http://www.themorlocks.com/talk/images/smiles/gene.gif

http://www.minibite.com/images2/new20.jpg

MRKARNO
05-30-2003, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by xil357

Atlantic: Mets, Yankees, Boston, Washington, Baltimore, Atlanta, Florida

Central: Detroit, Toronto, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Milwaukee

Midwest: White Sox, Cubs, St. Louis, Kansas City, Texas, Houston, Colorado

West: Anaheim, LA, Seattle, Oakland, San Francisco, San Diego, Arizona


Great general Idea, but just some nit picking about your divisional choices

The Atlantic, Midwest and West all look great, but the Central is just way too weak. Most of those teams usually finish under .500, but who knows? Maybe once The jays are out of the shadow of NY and BOS and the Philly doesnt need to worry about Atlanta, we'd see some new powerhouses

Dan H
05-31-2003, 06:59 AM
I don't hold anything Gammons for saying this. For the past 36 years (since the 1967 close call of going to the World Series) we have had a succession of owners running this team into the ground. John and Arthur Allyn had no clue, time had passed Bill Veeck by, and Jerry Reinsdorf has the legacy of the 1994 strike and White Flag Trade. Don't get mad at Gammons. Get mad at an onwership that has failed to deliver.

We're going into June under .500, and the only reason the Sox have any chance is because of that division.(And it is no mistake the Sox are in the least competitive division.) What is truly frustrating is that the team needs real change of direction and the current ownership either doesn't recognize this, or does recognize it, but won't do anything about it. Meanwhile, it nears 86 years without a World Series championship, and the fan base continues to dwindle.

hsnterprize
05-31-2003, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by Dan H
I don't hold anything Gammons for saying this. For the past 36 years (since the 1967 close call of going to the World Series) we have had a succession of owners running this team into the ground. John and Arthur Allyn had no clue, time had passed Bill Veeck by, and Jerry Reinsdorf has the legacy of the 1994 strike and White Flag Trade. Don't get mad at Gammons. Get mad at an onwership that has failed to deliver.

We're going into June under .500, and the only reason the Sox have any chance is because of that division.(And it is no mistake the Sox are in the least competitive division.) What is truly frustrating is that the team needs real change of direction and the current ownership either doesn't recognize this, or does recognize it, but won't do anything about it. Meanwhile, it nears 86 years without a World Series championship, and the fan base continues to dwindle. The saddest part of this whole thing is that as long as the Sox management, whether if it's in the front office, the dugout, or the mindsets of all the players who wear the uniform, don't try to do something to make this team better, people like Gammons will continue to say the same garbage over and over again. I wonder if he would say the same thing if the Red Sox were in this kind of predicament? Doubt it.

thezeker
05-31-2003, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I bet you that Anaheim was on the contraction list before they won the series. Now they average 40,000 a game. A similar thing would happen for the sox. The sox are like anaheim in that they averaged a low amount of fans in a big market. If the sox can get back on their winning ways for a period of a year or more, the sox would average 30-40K a year. I guarentee it. There is a huge market of people who just go to games for fun. To the average Chicagoan, when both teams are losing, Wrigley is much more fun to go to. When the sox are winning, the cell is the choice. The sox need to learn how to draw the non-diehard fans, of which there are a ton of in the area. [/B]




Despite all the positives "the cell" has going for it I doubt they would ever draw 3 million fans. The Sox have lost the swing fans they had in the early 90's and I doubt if they can get them back. The Cubs just beat them in every aspect of marketing.

They saw Baylor was a bust and got rid of him and got Baker. Like him or not he is doing a super job over there and is leading his division with basically the same team that lost over 90 games last year. Meanwhile it looks like we are stuck with Manuel another year. A nice guy but definitely the wrong guy for this bunch of underacievers!

One last thought I would like to pass on qualifying that I have been a die-hard SOX fan all my life and attend between 20 and 30 games a year.

:whiner: SOX fans look for reasons not to go to the ballpark!!!!

I believe we could have the best owner in baseball, be in 1st place, and have Camden Yards as our ballpark and they still would not show up! Then it would be the neighborhood or the high price of parking.

Look at 2000. We had the best record in baseball, just came back from that great road trip vs. Cleveland and New York and sure we drew 40,000 for that first game back. What is not always mentioned is that it was half price Monday and the following night there were about 15,000 at the ballpark. If we could not draw then what makes you think it will change?

Reinsdorf is getting old and what better way to treat his stockholdes to a big payday then contraction! It may sound far fetched but I could see it happen. If he could get more money contracting then selling this team he would do it. He was going to move to Florida wasn't he.

So I don't know about you but I love going to the Cell. On a nice warm summer night it is a taste of heaven. Good food, good company, and major league baseball to boot. Sometimes we don't appreciate what we got until it is gone. Then it's too late!

doogiec
06-01-2003, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by thezeker

:whiner: SOX fans look for reasons not to go to the ballpark!!!!

I believe we could have the best owner in baseball, be in 1st place, and have Camden Yards as our ballpark and they still would not show up! Then it would be the neighborhood or the high price of parking.

Look at 2000. We had the best record in baseball, just came back from that great road trip vs. Cleveland and New York and sure we drew 40,000 for that first game back. What is not always mentioned is that it was half price Monday and the following night there were about 15,000 at the ballpark. If we could not draw then what makes you think it will change?

Reinsdorf is getting old and what better way to treat his stockholdes to a big payday then contraction! It may sound far fetched but I could see it happen. If he could get more money contracting then selling this team he would do it. He was going to move to Florida wasn't he.

So I don't know about you but I love going to the Cell. On a nice warm summer night it is a taste of heaven. Good food, good company, and major league baseball to boot. Sometimes we don't appreciate what we got until it is gone. Then it's too late!

Beautifully said. Sometimes I think Sox fans need to look around the league a little before we freak out about what is going on here. Baseball is a business, and a lot of owners are flat out pathetic. I don't know of any current (and few past) situations where the owner is actually popular in baseball. It could be MUCH MUCH worse, and Reinsdorf and partners would probably be better off financially by cashing out either through contraction or sale to out of town interests.