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View Full Version : Could the White Sox be leaving Tucson? (long)


Viva Magglio
05-28-2003, 09:58 PM
This afternoon, the Arizona Daily Star reported that the Arizona Tourism and Sports Authority is trying to woo the Cleveland Indians to move their spring training base from Winter Haven, Fla., to Tucson. Before moving to Winter Haven in 1993, the Indians trained in Tucson at Hi Corbett Field for many years. The Rockies now train at Hi Corbett. The article below suggests one Indians-to-Tucson scenario in which the White Sox would move to a new facility in Maricopa County (Phoenix area) while the Indians would replace them at Tucson Electric Park in Pima County.

From the Arizona Daily Star: "Group seeks to woo Cleveland Indians back to Tucson for spring training" (http://regulus.azstarnet.com/hourlyupdate/nightnews_story.php?id=25)

The Daily Star will have more on this tomorrow morning.

This scenario saddens me. I realize it would be much more travel convenient for fans and the Chicago media if the White Sox were in the Phoenix area, but I would not like it at all. I have gone to Tucson every spring since the 1999 season, and I have gained quite a fondness for the Old Pueblo. The White Sox were the original reason I went to Tucson in the beginning, but my annual trips to Tucson these days are based more upon my love for that city than going there to see the White Sox. For instance, I look more forward to attending both University of Arizona baseball games and Mass at St. John the Evangelist than White Sox exhibition games.

I have also been to Maricopa County. Until this spring, I used to have to fly to Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport and then drive down I-10 to Tucson. Driving in and out of Maricopa County is a pain in the ass. The Phoenix metropolitan area is to me urbal spral run amok. Tucson is much more laid back and more comfortable. It's as if Phoenix is like Miami while Tucson is like Fort Lauderdale, if you want to compare Arizona to South Florida. Also, there is a heated state rivalry between Pima and Maricopa, and my fondness for Tucson naturally puts me on the Pima side. The huge and occasionally bitter rivalry between the U of A in Tucson and ASU in Tempe, a Phoenix suburb, is evidence of this rivalry. There is also a political divide between the two. Phoenix leans Republican while Tucson leans Democratic.

Returning from my tangential Tucson vs. Phoenix rant, I will still go to Tucson if the White Sox relocate to Maricopa County. Tucson, not Maricopa County, is my Arizona home. If I want to see the White Sox in Cactus League action, I'll see them when they come to Tucson.

DrCrawdad
05-28-2003, 10:43 PM
I think it's a done deal that the Sox are moving ST headquarters.

I can't remember where I read the article, but somewhere a few months ago there was a story about Reinsdorf moving the team out of TEP.

fuzzy_patters
05-28-2003, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
I think it's a done deal that the Sox are moving ST headquarters.

I can't remember where I read the article, but somewhere a few months ago there was a story about Reinsdorf moving the team out of TEP.

If I recall, Ed and John were not very happy with the upkeep of the facilities in Tuscon this year. They were particularly adamant about the poor playing field after Roger Bossard left Arizona. I'm sure the poor conditions have something to do with the Sox moving.

Chisoxfn
05-29-2003, 12:25 AM
I'd love it. The Sox are the only reason I drive from Tuscon. Personally I like Phoenix more with all the teams right there so you can watch a day game then go catch a night gam wise it makes so much more sense to be close to the majority of the teams. With just 3 teams (If the Tribe replaces the Sox) in Tuscon, it means a lot of long bus rides for those players.

Tragg
05-29-2003, 08:45 AM
Why did we leave Sarasota for Arizona in the first place?

Viva Magglio
05-29-2003, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
Why did we leave Sarasota for Arizona in the first place?

JR has a winter home in Arizona.

Viva Magglio
05-29-2003, 10:27 AM
Here is more on the Indians possibly returning to Tucson. It repeats a lot of yesterday afternoon's story but the article goes on to infer that there are potential roadblocks to more teams moving to Arizona. Also, there is an indication that the White Sox are not exactly itchy to leave Tucson at this time. As for other reports in this thread that they are leaving Tucson, I have not seen anything on it at all. I would tend to believe that such reports are mere premature speculation, if not erroneous.

Here is today's Arizona Daily Star article:

From the Arizona Daily Star: "Arizona woos Cleveland Indians" (http://www.azstarnet.com/star/today/30529INDIANS2fmst2fjmd.html)

T Dog
05-29-2003, 08:59 PM
I would hate to see the Sox leave Tucson.

NC_sox_fan
05-29-2003, 10:25 PM
Most of the players hate Tucson. It's hot, it's small and there's not much to do there. I'm sure they'd enjoy Phoenix but most would prefer to return to Florida. Beaches......!

Daver
05-29-2003, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by NC_sox_fan
Most of the players hate Tucson. It's hot, it's small and there's not much to do there. I'm sure they'd enjoy Phoenix but most would prefer to return to Florida. Beaches......!

There is tons of beach in Arizona,no water,but tons of sand.

:)

nut_stock
05-29-2003, 10:30 PM
This spring I think I remember hearing how cold and rainy it was to start spring training in Tuscon.

SoxxoS
05-29-2003, 10:50 PM
Being a current student at ASU, I would just like to say that the sox moving out of that "hole" known as Tuxxon Arizona would be the best thing for them. Tucson compared to Tempe specifically, there is abosolutely no contest. I know a lot of U of A guys that go to the U of A for a specific major, not because the school itself is better. ASU (Tempe) is just an all-around a better area. There is a lot more stuff to do, plus much, much hotter girls, in the Tempe area. Anyone who has been to Scottsdale knows what I'm talking about. This is going to be great for me, I will be able to see a lot more Sox games if they play around Tempe.

Can someone please list somethings they like about Tucson? (This should be good.)

SoxxoS
05-29-2003, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by nut_stock
This spring I think I remember hearing how cold and rainy it was to start spring training in Tuscon.

That was a complete rarity. Definitely not the norm that time of year.

Chisoxfn
05-30-2003, 02:35 AM
I'd say its safe to say the players like playing in Arizona then Florida unless their families happen to live in Florida.

The big reason is, you have super long travelling trips in Florida, yet in Arizona the longest you have is 30 minutes, unless your going to tuscon, which is more like 2 hrs from Peoria (Farthest away; Well that or the new facility in Sunshine).

I also agree with Soxxo the Tempe/Scottsdale/Phoenix area has some fine looking ladies. Tons of stuff to do too. Been to Tuscon for a soccer tourney and had to stay there and there was nothing to do. Like I said earlier, TEP is a nice facility.

NC_sox_fan
05-30-2003, 08:14 AM
You must be kidding. The players have told me ever since they left Florida that they'd love to be back in Sarasota. They constantly state that "there's nothing to do in Tucson". One guy told me that the ONLY thing Tucson has over Florida is casinos.

I've been to both places and would have to agree.

T Dog
05-30-2003, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Being a current student at ASU, I would just like to say that the sox moving out of that "hole" known as Tuxxon Arizona would be the best thing for them. Tucson compared to Tempe specifically, there is abosolutely no contest. I know a lot of U of A guys that go to the U of A for a specific major, not because the school itself is better. ASU (Tempe) is just an all-around a better area. There is a lot more stuff to do, plus much, much hotter girls, in the Tempe area. Anyone who has been to Scottsdale knows what I'm talking about. This is going to be great for me, I will be able to see a lot more Sox games if they play around Tempe.

Can someone please list somethings they like about Tucson? (This should be good.)

A Phoenix-vs.-Tucson debate on this board? You can leave out the fact that many residents of the state of Maricopa choose to pursue their postsecondary education in Flagstaff because they want to get out of the Valley. By the way, UA is the better school, attended by the likes of Linda Rondstadt, Linda McCartney, Paul Harvey and Geraldo Rivera. ASU is a party school that has produced athletes like Reggie Jackson and Barry Bonds.

Take this debate to the Grand Canyon State and you'll find it intertwined with politics. I think Tucson is Arizona's most livable city. People have told me that Tucson is what Phoenix was 50 years ago, before things got ugly. At the moment, it's the only city in the country that calls itself home to three spring training teams.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-30-2003, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by NC_sox_fan
You must be kidding. The players have told me ever since they left Florida that they'd love to be back in Sarasota. They constantly state that "there's nothing to do in Tucson". One guy told me that the ONLY thing Tucson has over Florida is casinos.

I've been to both places and would have to agree.

There is a big difference playing in isolated Tucson vs. playing in or around Phoenix. I'm sure most ballplayers would take nearly anyplace in Florida over Tucson.

However, I've heard lots of ballplayers complain about long bus trips across Florida to play exhibition games, but there really is no choice. If you don't travel, you would end up playing the same 2-3 teams the entire month of March. Eliminating long bus trips is what makes the Phoenix area the best. As for amenities in a city the size of Phoenix, well...

As for March weather, Arizona's is far better, and more predictable, than Florida's. As Daver notes, in Arizona you sacrifice the surf, but you certainly have plenty of "beach." :redneck

As a vacation destination, I would take Florida over Arizona. However I would just as quickly take the Virgin Islands over either Florida or Arizona--but that's just me. :smile:

SoxxoS
05-31-2003, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by T Dog
A Phoenix-vs.-Tucson debate on this board? You can leave out the fact that many residents of the state of Maricopa choose to pursue their postsecondary education in Flagstaff because they want to get out of the Valley. By the way, UA is the better school, attended by the likes of Linda Rondstadt, Linda McCartney, Paul Harvey and Geraldo Rivera. ASU is a party school that has produced athletes like Reggie Jackson and Barry Bonds.

Take this debate to the Grand Canyon State and you'll find it intertwined with politics. I think Tucson is Arizona's most livable city. People have told me that Tucson is what Phoenix was 50 years ago, before things got ugly. At the moment, it's the only city in the country that calls itself home to three spring training teams.

Do you want to start naming famous people that went to each school to determine which one is better? That is sad.

It depends on which program one decides to go into. I would say the Business, Journalism, and Communication programs are better at ASU. U of A is a good school though, I wont argue on that.

The "party school" stigma at ASU is crap. It WAS a party school. There is still a lot of stuff to do, but most people go to Scottsdale to party. A party school to me has a big fraternity scene (definitely NOT ASU) as well as having a lot of campus bars. There are a lot of campus bars, but each one (esp. on Mill) is almost impossible to get into with a fake ID. Mill avenue could be a great place, but it isn't all that special. It really appeals to the older crowd, not the college kids.

Tuxxon shouldn't even be compared to Tempe/Scottsdale in terms of stuff to do.

T Dog
06-01-2003, 03:49 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Do you want to start naming famous people that went to each school to determine which one is better? That is sad.

It depends on which program one decides to go into. I would say the Business, Journalism, and Communication programs are better at ASU. U of A is a good school though, I wont argue on that.

The "party school" stigma at ASU is crap. It WAS a party school. There is still a lot of stuff to do, but most people go to Scottsdale to party. A party school to me has a big fraternity scene (definitely NOT ASU) as well as having a lot of campus bars. There are a lot of campus bars, but each one (esp. on Mill) is almost impossible to get into with a fake ID. Mill avenue could be a great place, but it isn't all that special. It really appeals to the older crowd, not the college kids.

Tuxxon shouldn't even be compared to Tempe/Scottsdale in terms of stuff to do.

I almost feel I should take this you to the Parking Lot. But I strongly agree with Viva's original Clubhouse point.

I'll forgo listing Nobel laureates on the two faculties. I understand your school spirit, though. When I was an undergraduate, I had problems with Boilermakers, despite their superior chemical engineering program. In the state of Arizona, UA is considered a more serious school than ASU. I worked for 16 years in an office with both UA and ASU grads, with a few Lumberjacks (Northern Arizona University) thrown in. Coming from the Midwest, I was neutral. The boss was from ASU and often on the defensive. In recent years, the Arizona Legislature proudly cut education spending to the point where many programs were only offered at one of the three state universities. There was a major controversy when the Regents announced that they planned on doing away with the UA journalism program. The mission of the three state universities is now defined differently. There also is tremendous pressure on the community college system to bear the burden of lower division (freshman and sophomore) coursework. The politics between the three state universities are complicated by the fact that more than half of the state lawmakers come from metropolitan Phoenix.

From your perspective -- if you're talking about the party opportunities -- ASU is probably the better school. Mill Avenue has probably changed. The state has raised the drinking age. It's trying to get tougher on drunk driving with mandatory first-offense jail time, which is probably why you meet with more obstacles to getting wasted than kids 10 or 20 years ago. Considering how high the Regents had set out-of-state tuition when I left the state, if you're not on scholarship, you could certainly could have found more bang for your education buck.

Meanwhile, metropolitan Phoenix is a broad stretch of congested asphalt, dotted by patches where the newcomers have tried to make the desert look like Indiana. I think that is in agreement with Viva's point. Tucson's elevation is about 1,000 feet higher (literally, that would make Phoenix the hole), and there is plenty to do there. It has a lively arts scene. When I lived in Arizona, I was not alone in thinking Tucson the most livable city in the state. But, alas, there aren't as many bars

Viva Magglio
06-01-2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Can someone please list somethings they like about Tucson? (This should be good.)

1. UA (http://www.arizona.edu/)
2. Catalina Mountains
3. Lack of Suburban Spral Run Amok and more open space
4. Traveler-convenient airport
5. Mama Louisa's (http://emol.org/mamalouisas/)
6. Mission San Xavier del Bac (http://emol.org/tucson/sanxavier/)

And for those of you who use the tired old "nothing to do" line...

Visit Tucson (http://www.visittucson.org/)