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lowesox
05-27-2003, 03:25 PM
Many people at WSI, myself included, have written this team off. We’re 6.5 games out and 4 games under .500 and just starting a long road trip. I want to know if a change (be it managerial or big trade) could revitalize the season, in your opinions. Is it really is too late, if KW somehow woke up tomorrow morning and was competent enough to change something.

I think with Backman this team still has a fighting chance. I think a new manager would inject life into this team. Really the managerial move should’ve come a long time ago. Here’s what I predict: KW will sit on his fat a$$ until we’re 14-15 games out (about a month from now) then he’ll pull the trigger. The new manager will get a response – we’ll finish the season hot – and have high expectations for next season.

CHISOXFAN13
05-27-2003, 03:46 PM
IMHO, this team has no chance in hell.

Is Backman going to play the field? Will his presence improve our pathetic defense? I doubt it.

He may light a fire, but you need talent to go with the fire. We aren't talented enough.

lowesox
05-27-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
IMHO, this team has no chance in hell.

Is Backman going to play the field? Will his presence improve our pathetic defense? I doubt it.

He may light a fire, but you need talent to go with the fire. We aren't talented enough.

There's no doubt in my mind that we have talent. That's what makes all of this so frustrating. Sure, some guys are overrated. But this team doesn't play hard ever, and that's why we're losing.

Watch them after they win two games in a row. They've done it a couple times in the last few weeks. Its that moment when you think they're going to turn a corner - then the third game they get their a$$es kicked, and go on a losing streak. It's because winning a game here and there is enough for these guys and that's pathetic.

Most of these players have pasts, and most of those pasts are impressive. This is a case of laziness and lack of motivation. How do I know that's true? Because KW says the opposite.

thecell
05-27-2003, 04:28 PM
lowesox, I couldn't agree with you more. This team is very talented. Too bad they have the "roll over and die" mentality. They need somebody to challenge them and get in their faces. A change is needed NOW!

oldcomiskey
05-27-2003, 06:18 PM
Im at a crossroads with this team---one part has Me rooting like hell for them---the other says if they lose enough they might actually Manuel--I think its safe to say that Konerkos season is toast---hell Valentin's too.........they have holes everywhere that we refused to see in march... no CF---no offense from the catcher---which if we looked hard enough we could spotted that....if they fire the cryptkeeper now they might have a chance---otherwise its a 3rd place finish

gosox41
05-27-2003, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
IMHO, this team has no chance in hell.

Is Backman going to play the field? Will his presence improve our pathetic defense? I doubt it.

He may light a fire, but you need talent to go with the fire. We aren't talented enough.

I think the talent leve is there to take the AL Central. This teasm lacks fire. Wally Backman has shown in the minors that he is able to get the most out of a team's talent. Last year he led the AA Barons to a championship with one real everyday prospect. He's got the right mentality to manage a major league team: hardnosed and aggressive.

It's time to bring him in before it's too late.

Bob

MRKARNO
05-27-2003, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by gosox41


It's time to bring him in before it's too late.

Bob

It's starting to get to be pretty late

Daver
05-27-2003, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
I think the talent leve is there to take the AL Central. This teasm lacks fire. Wally Backman has shown in the minors that he is able to get the most out of a team's talent. Last year he led the AA Barons to a championship with one real everyday prospect. He's got the right mentality to manage a major league team: hardnosed and aggressive.

It's time to bring him in before it's too late.

Bob

Backman had quite a bit of career minor league talent on that team,I'm more impressed with the effort he is getting this year without said talent,this year he has a team of over acheivers,since all the career minor league talent got shipped to Charlotte.

MRKARNO
05-27-2003, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by daver
Backman had quite a bit of career minor league talent on that team,I'm more impressed with the effort he is getting this year without said talent,this year he has a team of over acheivers,since all the career minor league talent got shipped to Charlotte.

I'd rather the sox were in the process of overacheiving than underacheiving like they are now

lowesox
05-27-2003, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I'd rather the sox were in the process of overacheiving than underacheiving like they are now

I'd rather the sox were detroit right now. Yes, detroit loses but not for a lack of trying.

siugrad25
05-27-2003, 09:27 PM
Everyone replying on this post are right on the money. There's so much underachieving on this team, that I too, like LoweSox would much rather see the Sox like a Detroit or someone that is low on talent, but high on energy. I miss the hustle, the excitment and the energy. Atleast teams like the Devil Dogs and Kitties put together some exciting games together, and although they act like they just won the W.S. when they do it, atleast they are showing they care. I can hardly say anything remotely close about our Sox. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. It's only May and I'm already dreading watching Baseball Tonight or SportsCenter or reading the baseball section of the paper. Damn you Sox!!! Another wasted year.

jeremyb1
05-27-2003, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by daver
Backman had quite a bit of career minor league talent on that team,I'm more impressed with the effort he is getting this year without said talent,this year he has a team of over acheivers,since all the career minor league talent got shipped to Charlotte.

from the comments i've heard from the team i don't get the impression that problem is a lack of effort and intensity as it may have been last year with guys like clayton and lofton. if anything the problem seems to be that as this is now our third year of underacheiving guys are buckling under the pressure, pressing too much, and therefore falling short of expectations. as such an intense guy i'm not sure that someone like backman is what this team needs.

Nellie_Fox
05-27-2003, 11:37 PM
How you see this really revolves around how you view baseball. If you believe that you can build a winning team around a bunch of slow-footed thumpers with stone gloves, then you believe this is a talented team that is underachieving.

If you believe that baseball is won with pitching and defense, and that defense makes pitching much, much better, then you believe this team is doing exactly what can be expected.

fuzzy_patters
05-28-2003, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
How you see this really revolves around how you view baseball. If you believe that you can build a winning team around a bunch of slow-footed thumpers with stone gloves, then you believe this is a talented team that is underachieving.

If you believe that baseball is won with pitching and defense, and that defense makes pitching much, much better, then you believe this team is doing exactly what can be expected.

Baloney. This team is one of the worst offensive teams in baseball in terms of runs scored, and they have already been shut out several times. That has nothing to do with pitching and defense.

fuzzy_patters
05-28-2003, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
Baloney. This team is one of the worst offensive teams in baseball in terms of runs scored, and they have already been shut out several times. That has nothing to do with pitching and defense.

I looked it up and the Sox are currently 26th in MLB and 12th in the AL in runs scored with 200. On the other side, they are 15th in MLB and 8th in the AL in runs allowed. It seems pretty clear to me that offense is more of a problem than pitching and defense right now.

Nellie_Fox
05-28-2003, 12:54 AM
I don't disagree with either of you. This is what you get when you build around offense. Offense slumps. Defense almost never does. This is an abysmal defensive team in an offensive slump.

lowesox
05-28-2003, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
from the comments i've heard from the team i don't get the impression that problem is a lack of effort and intensity as it may have been last year with guys like clayton and lofton. if anything the problem seems to be that as this is now our third year of underacheiving guys are buckling under the pressure, pressing too much, and therefore falling short of expectations. as such an intense guy i'm not sure that someone like backman is what this team needs.

But what are they going to say? "Yeah, we threw it in tonight, after that error in the first?" Probably not. But I think we all know it's true.

I agree that some players probably feel that pressure, and by no means am I throwing stones at every player in the clubhouse.

I think Backman might make the difference. Obviously Manuel isn't making a difference, so you have to try the other end of the spectrum.

SoxxoS
05-28-2003, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
But what are they going to say? "Yeah, we threw it in tonight, after that error in the first?" Probably not. But I think we all know it's true.

I agree that some players probably feel that pressure, and by no means am I throwing stones at every player in the clubhouse.

I think Backman might make the difference. Obviously Manuel isn't making a difference, so you have to try the other end of the spectrum.

What I like about Backman, is if you look at the boxscores of a lot of the Barons games, he wins games even if the Barons have lost the hit battle.

For example-The Barons would beat the Mudhens (or whoever) 4 to 3, but the Mudhens out hit them 8 to 3. Something like that. That means the manager is doing something to manufacture runs.

The Tinkerer's team had 7 hits to Toronto's 8, yet lost the game 5-1.

daveb816
05-28-2003, 10:57 AM
A new manager could get the Sox to 84-85 wins at the most. The Twins are headed for 90 plus wins, so there's not much hope for contention. The Twins are now 5-2 vs. the A's and M's, while the Sox were 3-9.

Even if the Twins have some injuries along the way, they're very deep (Kielty, Mohr, Morneua in minors, Santana, etc.) and could survive just about anything.

lowesox
05-28-2003, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by daveb816
A new manager could get the Sox to 84-85 wins at the most. The Twins are headed for 90 plus wins, so there's not much hope for contention. The Twins are now 5-2 vs. the A's and M's, while the Sox were 3-9.

Even if the Twins have some injuries along the way, they're very deep (Kielty, Mohr, Morneua in minors, Santana, etc.) and could survive just about anything.

The point is everybody knows that Manuel will be fired sooner or later so why wait? It's obvious the players gave up on him months ago. Maybe they've lost faith. Most GMs spot that when it happens and react after a few games.

I don't think we can comeback with the players we have, but I don't think the twins are that great either. If anything they'll make the playoffs and get swept.

Jerko
05-28-2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
I looked it up and the Sox are currently 26th in MLB and 12th in the AL in runs scored with 200. On the other side, they are 15th in MLB and 8th in the AL in runs allowed. It seems pretty clear to me that offense is more of a problem than pitching and defense right now.


That means that 15 NATIONAL LEAGUE TEAMS have more runs than the White Sox!?! Teams whose pitchers bat? That is downright embarrassing. Maybe that's just the Sox' way to get rid of the designated hitter since they can't get rid of Thomas any other way.

jeremyb1
05-29-2003, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
But what are they going to say? "Yeah, we threw it in tonight, after that error in the first?" Probably not. But I think we all know it's true.

I agree that some players probably feel that pressure, and by no means am I throwing stones at every player in the clubhouse.

I think Backman might make the difference. Obviously Manuel isn't making a difference, so you have to try the other end of the spectrum.

i have a hard time to believe this team has given up. i think if that was the case, we'd see the team hitting better. i don't think there's any evidence as far as a lack of effort in terms of working on our offense. the players seem to have worked with walker since the change and i've heards of players taking extra bp on numerous occassions. just looking at the team, i have a hard time believing jose our team leader has given up, that paully a tireless worker and a huge gamer has given up, that the rededicated frank thomas that has continued to work with hriniak has given up, that d'angelo who's been our best hitter has given up, or that carlos who's playing the hardest he's ever played and is hitting well lately has given up.

i do agree that the fact that anything different would have to be better than what we have now is a powerful argument in favor of backman. he certainly is differnt than what we have right now.

lowesox
05-29-2003, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i have a hard time to believe this team has given up. i think if that was the case, we'd see the team hitting better. i don't think there's any evidence as far as a lack of effort in terms of working on our offense. the players seem to have worked with walker since the change and i've heards of players taking extra bp on numerous occassions. just looking at the team, i have a hard time believing jose our team leader has given up, that paully a tireless worker and a huge gamer has given up, that the rededicated frank thomas that has continued to work with hriniak has given up, that d'angelo who's been our best hitter has given up, or that carlos who's playing the hardest he's ever played and is hitting well lately has given up.

i do agree that the fact that anything different would have to be better than what we have now is a powerful argument in favor of backman. he certainly is differnt than what we have right now.

The more I read about this team the more I believe they've given up. In the tribune today Jose talks about how badly he wants to get in people's faces and how dead the locker room is. And I for one wish he would. Last night we won, but to me that means nothing. I feel like we need to lose to prove to KW that it's time for a change.

JM keeps trying new things with the lineup card, but this team is very unmotivated. I get so mad reading what KW says. He is either blind, stupid, or both.

maurice
05-29-2003, 11:31 AM
Valentin knows that he can't get in anyone's face right now, since he's not producing either offensively or defensively. Konerko can't speak up for the same reason.

The twinkies are on a hot streak and will cool off. If our bats heat up (they should) and our pitching doesn't decline (it shouldn't), the AL Central should be a two-team race (Sox v. twinkies).

Hope springs eternal when you've already purchased tickets for like 15 more games. :D:

JUGGERNAUT
05-29-2003, 11:57 AM
GO WHITESOX!

Jon Garland: owner of 2 quality starts & a shutout in his last 3!

gosox41
05-29-2003, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
GO WHITESOX!

Jon Garland: owner of 2 quality starts & a shutout in his last 3!


It's about time. I'm so hard on the guy because I know he has potential and hate to see it go to waste. I would never rip on Josh Stewart the way I do Garland becuase I have much lower expectations of him.

Bob