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View Full Version : Time to think about next year...


harwar
05-27-2003, 11:32 AM
As ridiculous as it sounds in May,i believe its time to start thinking about next year.All signs point to this season being a total washout.The White Sox need a shortstop,center fielder and a second baseman who can play defense.Colon and Loaiza will be gone by the trade deadline but i don't have the confidence in Ken Williams to get what they are worth.At least Frank,Jose & Manuel will be gone(i hope).

Hangar18
05-27-2003, 11:38 AM
File This Under "HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF"

Sox Trade Colon and Loiaza, then realize in the offseason
they need 2 more pitchers. Im really getting tired of this.....

lowesox
05-27-2003, 11:47 AM
I don’t think this team needs an entire overhaul, but there’s a lot that needs to be changed. Let’s remember that 4 of the 9 guys in our batting order are true major league starters for the first time in their career (Crede, Borchard, Olivo, Jimenez). I wouldn’t touch any of those guys, because to me they’ve been the bright spots.

I think this team needs a defensive minded SS, and CF. I wouldn’t go for superstars, just sound defensive players who can steal bases and hit around .270. I think Frank will be gone too, so I’d move Lee to DH, and Borchard to LF.

One thing I’d do that might seem a little unorthodox is try Aaron Miles at first base. I know that some will say he’s too small to play there, but I wouldn’t want to trade Konerko while his value is so low, and this way Konerko wouldn’t have to be a regular. This would add some pep to the lineup in a spot where we had anything but.

From a pitching perspective, I’d try and go out and get another top-notch starter or keep Colon. Then keep everything else pretty much the same (Rauch or Stewart would replace Loiaza who is undoubtedly out of here by the deadline). This team might not be as far from being good as it seems now.

chosk8
05-27-2003, 12:28 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Frank and Valentin need to go. This team needs to quit living in the past and holding on to the memories of 2000. Make a statement and rid the team of you supposed team leader and the self proclaimed team leader who does nothing. This team cannot handle pressure, simple as that. There are so many tight @sses in that clubhouse it is unreal. As soon as any expectations are put on this team, they go into a shell. 2001 and 2002 they were expected to win the division because of their 2000 season and completely folded. Even in 2000, the first half was the rest of the league saying "are they for real?". Then in the second half when the league thought they were for real and started taking them seriously, they played .500 ball the rest of the way out and have done so up until now. Rid yourself of these 2 guys and bring up Miles to play second and move Jimenez to SS and let Daubach DH. Reinsdorf will never let Frank leave though because of the way he was ripped for the way he treated Fisk and letting Jordan go from the Bulls.

The team is the laughing stock of the league. I look at it as us being only 10 games better than Detroit and having a better chance of catching them than the Twins, not being 6.5 game out of first. I watched NCAA softball over the weekend that had teams playing more fundamentally sound baseball than we do.

DrCrawdad
05-27-2003, 12:40 PM
Here's one thing that should be done immediately ...


RELEASE RICK WHITE !

Hangar18
05-27-2003, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Here's one thing that should be done immediately ...


RELEASE RICK WHITE !

What the.....You mean this guy is still on the team???

hold2dibber
05-27-2003, 01:18 PM
I don't think Frank is going anywhere. Unless he starts hitting, I don't think anyone would want him. And don't forget that after this year, he has a player option that he can exercise for next year. If he doesn't put up bigger and better numbers, I for one would expect him to exercise the option rather than test the free agent market again.

I also don't understand why people think Loaiza will be dealt. If I recall correctly, the Sox have an option on him at something like $4 million. If he continues pitching this well, he's a steal at $4 million for next year. And with no one among Garland, Wright, Rauch, and Stewart stepping forward, and with Buehrle faltering and Colon a free agent, I don't see the Sox dealing away arguably the only effective pitcher they have going into next year.

If I were KW, I would can Manuel TODAY, and get Backman or Jim Leyland to take over immediately. Then I'd immediately go about trying to re-tool this team; try to deal Lee, Konerko, Jimenez, and/or prospects for fleet-footed, left handed hitters who play 2nd, SS or CF. Release Rick White and call up Ginter. Try like hell to sign Chuck Finley (after June 1, when no draft choice comepensation would be required). Try like hell to sign Colon asap. If PK doesn't quickly break out of his funk, make Daubach your everyday 1B for a month to see if you can catch lightening in a bottle. Start running more (Olivo, Jimenez, Lee, Ordonez and Valentin all can swipe an occassional base). I would keep Loaiza and only deal Colon if (1) you're convinced you won't be able to sign him long term AND (2) you're out of it at the trading deadline.

This team has more talent than Toronto, Baltimore, Texas, Cinncinatti and Colorado, but has a worse record than all of those teams (and is just a few games better than Florida and Pittsburgh!). They just need a spark plug right now, and a bit of a shakeup to get them out of the funk they're in. It can be done, but I just don't think that sitting back and waiting is going to make it happen -- the pattern of this team, with this manager over the last few years is to play well only when it is too late and doesn't matter any more. I sure hope the people in the front office don't allow it to happen again.

Iguana775
05-27-2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by harwar
As ridiculous as it sounds in May,i believe its time to start thinking about next year.All signs point to this season being a total washout.The White Sox need a shortstop,center fielder and a second baseman who can play defense.Colon and Loaiza will be gone by the trade deadline but i don't have the confidence in Ken Williams to get what they are worth.At least Frank,Jose & Manuel will be gone(i hope).

i hope we keep colon and loaiza. everyone else can jet.

gosox41
05-27-2003, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Iguana775
i hope we keep colon and loaiza. everyone else can jet.

If the Sox choose the direction of rebuilding Loiaza is the first one I'd trade. He is a perfect example of the "sell high" theory. He can only go down from here, and if the Sox are out of it they can get a ton for Loiaza since both big and small market teams can afford him.

Bob

duke of dorwood
05-27-2003, 01:38 PM
I'd trade Marte-we'd get the most for him

Hangar18
05-27-2003, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I don't think Frank is going anywhere. Unless he starts hitting, I don't think anyone would want him. And don't forget that after this year, he has a player option that he can exercise for next year. If he doesn't put up bigger and better numbers, I for one would expect him to exercise the option rather than test the free agent market again.

I also don't understand why people think Loaiza will be dealt. If I recall correctly, the Sox have an option on him at something like $4 million. If he continues pitching this well, he's a steal at $4 million for next year. And with no one among Garland, Wright, Rauch, and Stewart stepping forward, and with Buehrle faltering and Colon a free agent, I don't see the Sox dealing away arguably the only effective pitcher they have going into next year.

If I were KW, I would can Manuel TODAY, and get Backman or Jim Leyland to take over immediately. Then I'd immediately go about trying to re-tool this team; try to deal Lee, Konerko, Jimenez, and/or prospects for fleet-footed, left handed hitters who play 2nd, SS or CF. Release Rick White and call up Ginter. Try like hell to sign Chuck Finley (after June 1, when no draft choice comepensation would be required). Try like hell to sign Colon asap. If PK doesn't quickly break out of his funk, make Daubach your everyday 1B for a month to see if you can catch lightening in a bottle. Start running more (Olivo, Jimenez, Lee, Ordonez and Valentin all can swipe an occassional base). I would keep Loaiza and only deal Colon if (1) you're convinced you won't be able to sign him long term AND (2) you're out of it at the trading deadline.

This team has more talent than Toronto, Baltimore, Texas, Cinncinatti and Colorado, but has a worse record than all of those teams (and is just a few games better than Florida and Pittsburgh!). They just need a spark plug right now, and a bit of a shakeup to get them out of the funk they're in. It can be done, but I just don't think that sitting back and waiting is going to make it happen -- the pattern of this team, with this manager over the last few years is to play well only when it is too late and doesn't matter any more. I sure hope the people in the front office don't allow it to happen again.

I like everything DIBBER just said here......I feel good.

lowesox
05-27-2003, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
I'd trade Marte-we'd get the most for him

Whoops first thing I’d do is fire Kenny Williams, our arrogant dumb ******* GM. I think our most valuable player in a trade is Colon. Williams would get some kind of fermented chicken drink for him. A real GM would get 3 top-level prospects.

gosox3072
05-27-2003, 06:22 PM
dude--we may be playin bad but we still are only 6 games out of first and we have 13 games left with the twins, im not ready to abandon the sox ship yet, we have a good team and hopefully we can put our O and D together sometime and win some games

ChiSoxBobette
05-27-2003, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by harwar
As ridiculous as it sounds in May,i believe its time to start thinking about next year.All signs point to this season being a total washout.The White Sox need a shortstop,center fielder and a second baseman who can play defense.Colon and Loaiza will be gone by the trade deadline but i don't have the confidence in Ken Williams to get what they are worth.At least Frank,Jose & Manuel will be gone(i hope).

Thats about all we have left after tonights loss to the bluejays 5-1. Toronto beat Buehrle & now Colon and this road trip should end up maybe 2 & 12 and the sad thing is we will still have Kenny Williams as GM & Jerry Manuel as manager. THIS SEASON IS OVER!
All our owner is worried about is the All-Star game then after thats done here come the 2003 version of the White Flag trades and JR will blame us the White Sox fans for the reason he has to dump players.

Sell Jerry Sell

lowesox
05-27-2003, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by gosox3072
dude--we may be playin bad but we still are only 6 games out of first and we have 13 games left with the twins, im not ready to abandon the sox ship yet, we have a good team and hopefully we can put our O and D together sometime and win some games

What you're forgetting is that the Sox don't get up for games. It's too easy for them to just give up. I'm not sure if you noticed by they did so about a month and a half ago. If the Sox get it together and get it back to .500 I'm sure they'll get very content with themselves and lose their next 10 games.