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MHOUSE
05-22-2003, 03:41 PM
He says Manuel is running out of times and the Sox are stuck in nuetral and have to beat the Twins to ever compete, which they can't. He basically agrees with a lot of the opinions on this board and asks the same questions of Manuel and Sox management that we do. It's a good article and "front page" on the MLB section of ESPN.com

ESPN.com article (http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/rogers_phil/1557719.html)

MRKARNO
05-22-2003, 04:18 PM
He took the article that was in the trib a few days back and altered it so that it was more up to date and geared more toward a national audience

fquaye149
05-22-2003, 07:22 PM
what are we against the twins this year? 2-4? oh man they've just been running roughshod over us. phil rogers is a moron and espn on the whole needs to get off the twins' junk cuz it's making me sick. peter gammons needs to take his anti-senility medicine, and chris berman needs to stop announcing sunday night baseball. it's bad enough having to listen to joe morgan alone, much less when boomer is spitting his poorly informed nonsense. but the bottom line is phil rogers is a moron

Daver
05-22-2003, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by fquaye149
but the bottom line is phil rogers is a moron

Why do I find it humourous that someone that does not know how to use a shift key would call anyone a moron?

LuvSox
05-22-2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by daver
Why do I find it humourous that someone that does not know how to use a shift key would call anyone a moron?

I get the feeling we haven't heard the last from P Rodg. on this. :D:

Blueprint1
05-22-2003, 07:47 PM
I think its funny when people don't look at what someone writes but if they HIT THE SHIFT KEY. Writing a paper or an essay i could see why that matters. This is a message board WHO CARES!!!

Iguana775
05-22-2003, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Blueprint1
I think its funny when people don't look at what someone writes but if they HIT THE SHIFT KEY. Writing a paper or an essay i could see why that matters. This is a message board WHO CARES!!!

really? i thought it was english class.

lowesox
05-22-2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by fquaye149
but the bottom line is phil rogers is a moron

I love Phil Rogers. He's passionate about this team to post on WSI, and has a very respectable opinion. Do you think 2-4 against your rivals is good?

Have some respect.

AngelLeroy
05-22-2003, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by Blueprint1
I think its funny when people don't look at what someone writes but if they HIT THE SHIFT KEY. Writing a paper or an essay i could see why that matters. This is a message board WHO CARES!!!

It's thinking like this that leads to 17 year olds filling out job applications with phrases like "McDonalds iz a gr8 place 2 werk." Please, people, show some maturity and respect the language.

...Anyway, on topic, I think Rogers makes a lot of valid points. In fact, he is one of the few Chicago writers I can tolerate.

fquaye149
05-22-2003, 09:13 PM
you guys want to cut me some slack? i'm an english major at the university of notre dame, so i think i know my way around the english language. i didn't realize i was writing a term paper though, so maybe you could forgive me for my lack of capitalization. i just don't feel like taking the time to hit shift, so if it detracts from your reading experience, just do what daver, resident redneck does and ignore the content and criticize my grammar(although i think this hardly counts as grammar). my point was that phil rogers article reflects the trend on espn.com and on espn in general to detract from the white sox and elevate the twins. the sox are playing poorly right now, so he focuses on the fact that we are 12th in the al in runs scored rather than the fact that we were 3rd last year and have been among the top teams in the past few years in that category. we took the first series of the year from the twins easily. they beat us this week in the middle of an offensive slump and they still barely swept us. it took pitching meltdowns, defensive errors, and a great catch by torii hunter to beat us in the three games. I really don't see the al central as being a problem if we ever start hitting, something any reasonable person should be able to see since we are losing a lot of one and two run games and leaving double digit totals of men on base in almost every game. that is why phil rogers is a moron, because he takes the easy/ east coast/ populist stance that the sox are woeful losers without a prayer barring some major restructuring and that the twins are the saviors of baseball, playing the game how it's meant to be played and running rampant over the hapless sox. i think it's obvious that that's hardly the case, especially this year.

Iguana775
05-22-2003, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by fquaye149
you guys want to cut me some slack? i'm an english major at the university of notre dame, so i think i know my way around the english language. i didn't realize i was writing a term paper though, so maybe you could forgive me for my lack of capitalization. i just don't feel like taking the time to hit shift, so if it detracts from your reading experience, just do what daver, resident redneck does and ignore the content and criticize my grammar(although i think this hardly counts as grammar). my point was that phil rogers article reflects the trend on espn.com and on espn in general to detract from the white sox and elevate the twins. the sox are playing poorly right now, so he focuses on the fact that we are 12th in the al in runs scored rather than the fact that we were 3rd last year and have been among the top teams in the past few years in that category. we took the first series of the year from the twins easily. they beat us this week in the middle of an offensive slump and they still barely swept us. it took pitching meltdowns, defensive errors, and a great catch by torii hunter to beat us in the three games. I really don't see the al central as being a problem if we ever start hitting, something any reasonable person should be able to see since we are losing a lot of one and two run games and leaving double digit totals of men on base in almost every game. that is why phil rogers is a moron, because he takes the easy/ east coast/ populist stance that the sox are woeful losers without a prayer barring some major restructuring and that the twins are the saviors of baseball, playing the game how it's meant to be played and running rampant over the hapless sox. i think it's obvious that that's hardly the case, especially this year.

there is not point in fighting it. i have tried and others have tried but people here think this is english class and everything has to be proper.

AngelLeroy
05-22-2003, 09:26 PM
I'm not saying anything to you directly, fquaye149. At least you can spell and can compose a readable sentence. I don't like a "who cares" attitude about the language, however. As I said, it's attitudes like that that've led to the abysmal grammar of high school and junior high kids.

On Rogers, I have to disagree. The Sox may have only lost the last two games by a little, its true, but they should have been able to win at least ONE of those. If they play like that, even if they make the playoffs, they won't last.

Daver
05-22-2003, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Iguana775
there is not point in fighting it. i have tried and others have tried but people here think this is english class and everything has to be proper.

I never said that.I did say that if people insist on putting up a solid block of lower case laters a page long I won't bother reading it,and I don't.

AngelLeroy
05-22-2003, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Iguana775
there is not point in fighting it. i have tried and others have tried but people here think this is english class and everything has to be proper.

I don't think anyone thinks it's English class, but when I can't even understand what someone is trying to say, it's a problem. Not to say that's the case in this particular thread, but it is in many others.

hose
05-22-2003, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by fquaye149
you guys want to cut me some slack? i'm an english major at the university of notre dame, so i think i know my way around the english language. i didn't realize i was writing a term paper though, so maybe you could forgive me for my lack of capitalization. i just don't feel like taking the time to hit shift, so if it detracts from your reading experience, just do what daver, resident redneck does and ignore the content and criticize my grammar(although i think this hardly counts as grammar). my point was that phil rogers article reflects the trend on espn.com and on espn in general to detract from the white sox and elevate the twins. the sox are playing poorly right now, so he focuses on the fact that we are 12th in the al in runs scored rather than the fact that we were 3rd last year and have been among the top teams in the past few years in that category. we took the first series of the year from the twins easily. they beat us this week in the middle of an offensive slump and they still barely swept us. it took pitching meltdowns, defensive errors, and a great catch by torii hunter to beat us in the three games. I really don't see the al central as being a problem if we ever start hitting, something any reasonable person should be able to see since we are losing a lot of one and two run games and leaving double digit totals of men on base in almost every game. that is why phil rogers is a moron, because he takes the easy/ east coast/ populist stance that the sox are woeful losers without a prayer barring some major restructuring and that the twins are the saviors of baseball, playing the game how it's meant to be played and running rampant over the hapless sox. i think it's obvious that that's hardly the case, especially this year.


The fact that you are a Domer makes you all right in my book.

I disagree with you about Phil Rogers.

Bottom line is Phil knows his baseball and is a excellent writer.

We might have a few future baseball writers from WSI, some of the youngsters are really knowledgeable and passionate about the game.

chisox06
05-22-2003, 09:42 PM
Me like Whiet Sox, day iz my tizeem. On separate note, its nice to see the manuel hotseat is getting some national attention, fire his ass already!

jeremyb1
05-23-2003, 02:03 AM
most of the stuff about manuel possibly being fired before long seems like pure speculation in my opinion. according to cowley's source which seems to be rogers source for his article, manuel more or less has until the end of the season.

WhiteSoxWinner
05-23-2003, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by fquaye149
what are we against the twins this year? 2-4? oh man they've just been running roughshod over us. phil rogers is a moron and espn on the whole needs to get off the twins' junk cuz it's making me sick.

Well, to date, yes, they have run roughshod over us. Phil isn't a "Swami" (no swipe at Chris Berman intended) and is reporting on how things stand to date. Everyone on this board knew that we needed to beat MIN in order to win the division. I hate to tell you but 2-4 isn't a winning record against our arch-rivals.

Hey, the Twins are the powerhouse in the AL Central, and until we prove otherwise, ESPN will report and follow them. They follows the popular/winning teams, so, in the AL Central, once the Indians fell apart the mantle fell, sadly, to the Twins. The rest of the AL Central is an after-thought. We missed our opportunity to become an ESPN darling last year. Now we have to fight for it. We aren't doing so well to date...

ozzman
05-23-2003, 05:41 AM
hey fquaye149, what dorm are you in? I graduated in 2001

boog_alou
05-23-2003, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by hose
I disagree with you about Phil Rogers.

Bottom line is Phil knows his baseball and is a excellent writer.

I don't think he has a very good baseball mind, nor does he pur forth sound baseball analysis.

By way of an example, I'll point to his offseason article on the Sox saying that they have a good chance of making it to the World Series because they have 4 starters who made 30+ starts and pitched 180+ innings last year. The argument was weak to begin with, and he didn't do much to support it.

Some writers at Baseball Prospectus tore his argument up...it was brutal.

I don't think Rogers is very smart, period. And when he writes about baseball his intellectual deficiencies come shining through.

WinningUgly!
05-23-2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by fquaye149
they still barely swept us
?????? :?: ???????

Sucking on the end of a shotgun barely killed Kurt Cobain.

fhqwhgads
05-23-2003, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
?????? :?: ???????

Sucking on the end of a shotgun barely killed Kurt Cobain.

LOL, WU. That is the funniest thing I've read on these boards. That's POTW material.

GO TWINS!

fquaye149
05-23-2003, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner

I hate to tell you but 2-4 isn't a winning record against our arch-rivals.


yeah thanks for that. but it hardly shows that we "CAN'T" beat them



Originally posted by ozzman
hey fquaye149, what dorm are you in? I graduated in 2001

knott hall



Originally posted by WinningUgly!

?????? :?: ???????

Sucking on the end of a shotgun barely killed Kurt Cobain.


there are so many things wrong with this it's not even funny. first of all, courtney love killed kurt. second of all i think we can differentiate between one run games and suicide(standings suicide or otherwise) especially when they involve one play that makes the difference(torii hunter's catch, jose's error). they BARELY swept us because if one of those two things doesn't happen, we probably win one game and ergo do not get swept.

hose
05-23-2003, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by boog_alou
I don't think he has a very good baseball mind, nor does he pur forth sound baseball analysis.

By way of an example, I'll point to his offseason article on the Sox saying that they have a good chance of making it to the World Series because they have 4 starters who made 30+ starts and pitched 180+ innings last year. The argument was weak to begin with, and he didn't do much to support it.

Some writers at Baseball Prospectus tore his argument up...it was brutal.

I don't think Rogers is very smart, period. And when he writes about baseball his intellectual deficiencies come shining through.


You have your opinion which is fine.

How a few people at Baseball Prospectus react to a piece that Rogers wrote has no impact at all on me.

WhiteSox = Life
05-23-2003, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!

?????? :?: ???????

Sucking on the end of a shotgun barely killed Kurt Cobain.


Originally posted by fhqwhgads


LOL, WU. That is the funniest thing I've read on these boards. That's POTW material.

GO TWINS!

Hmm... You know something isn't funny when a Twins fan laughed at it.

Not to mention, actual suicide or murder, whatever it was, is never funny. I'm not going to get into the whole Kurt Cobain thing, but, whatever happened, comparing baseball to suicide/murder, that's like saying something to the effects of "The Sox are playing like they just drank some of Jim Jones' Kool-Aid."

In other words, an insolent, ignorant comment and very uncool.

:(:

SoxxoS
05-23-2003, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by boog_alou
I don't think he has a very good baseball mind, nor does he pur forth sound baseball analysis.

By way of an example, I'll point to his offseason article on the Sox saying that they have a good chance of making it to the World Series because they have 4 starters who made 30+ starts and pitched 180+ innings last year. The argument was weak to begin with, and he didn't do much to support it.

Some writers at Baseball Prospectus tore his argument up...it was brutal.

I don't think Rogers is very smart, period. And when he writes about baseball his intellectual deficiencies come shining through.

Your argument about Phil Rogers is weak.

WinningUgly!
05-24-2003, 02:38 AM
Originally posted by fquaye149

there are so many things wrong with this it's not even funny. first of all, courtney love killed kurt. second of all i think we can differentiate between one run games and suicide(standings suicide or otherwise) especially when they involve one play that makes the difference(torii hunter's catch, jose's error). they BARELY swept us because if one of those two things doesn't happen, we probably win one game and ergo do not get swept.

The difference between winning & losing close games very often comes down to a single action. You either make the big play or you don't. The Twins have a habit of making every play they need to against the Sox. They came up with the big play (Hunter's catch) when they needed to in order to win. Our big plays against the Twins are usually big-bad (Valentin's error) and cause us to lose. Both of those things did happen & they did sweep us...not barely...three games in a row!!!!

Yes, the Cobain reference was stupid & in poor taste. I used it to point out how silly "they barely swept us" sounds.

WinningUgly!
05-24-2003, 02:54 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
Hmm... You know something isn't funny when a Twins fan laughed at it.

Not to mention, actual suicide or murder, whatever it was, is never funny. I'm not going to get into the whole Kurt Cobain thing, but, whatever happened, comparing baseball to suicide/murder, that's like saying something to the effects of "The Sox are playing like they just drank some of Jim Jones' Kool-Aid."

In other words, an insolent, ignorant comment and very uncool.

:(:

Lighten up.

Would you be offended if I said "The Sox got killed by the Twins in the first game of that series."????

BTW, there is a long running joke on these boards comparing Cub fans to Jim Jones' Kool-Aid drinking followers.

Jjav829
05-24-2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Lighten up.

Would you be offended if I said "The Sox got killed by the Twins in the first game of that series."????

BTW, there is a long running joke on these boards comparing Cub fans to Jim Jones' Kool-Aid drinking followers.

Some people just overreact. Don't worry about it...

Lip Man 1
05-24-2003, 12:12 PM
Granted I'm biased because I consider Phil a personal friend and a good friend of WSI but even with that I consider him to be an OUTSTANDING writer who doesn't get caught up in the Cubs "hype", sees things clearly and makes me think after he writes a column.

As someone who has had to write extensively for TV and newspapers that's the highest compliment you can give someone in the business.

When Phil writes something I usually say 'I didn't think of it that way...'

Keep up the great work Phil!

Lip

WhiteSox = Life
05-24-2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!


Lighten up.

Would you be offended if I said "The Sox got killed by the Twins in the first game of that series."????

BTW, there is a long running joke on these boards comparing Cub fans to Jim Jones' Kool-Aid drinking followers.

No, I wouldn't be. And, yeah, I probably should lighten up. That's what happens when you're half-asleep while posting. And, that Cubbie Kool-Aid thing suddenly makes sense now!

:D:

Originally posted by Jjav829


Some people just overreact. Don't worry about it...

I don't necessarily think I was overreacting, if only because death is a touchy subject and shouldn't really be used analagously, I believe.

In other words, I have no problems with either of you two guys, and I'll admit I became a little too easily inflamed. Sorry about it.

As they say, "Live and Let Die," you know?

:smile:

Joel Perez
05-24-2003, 03:00 PM
Hey, I'm just happy that the Sox finally got SOME national press....for a long time, some here were posting "Why aren't the Sox on ESPN? Who's gonna write about the Sox?" and etc.

If the Sox brass is serious about turning this around, I'm a Jerry Manuel fan, but a change in the clubhouse is needed. Starting with him. Six years, and only one playoff run. Promises unfulfilled. Time to go.

Then, the Sox need to reassign Kenny Williams into another role. Kenny has tried to pull off "THE BIG DEAL", but they just have not worked out, save a shrewd but smart trade for Damaso Marte. His forte seems to be in scouting and drafting, so why not reassign him there?

I don't have any assessments on whom might be the best person to run the show, but a name that I keep reading about is Wally Backman, the ex-2B from the Mets. If I recall, he was a fiesty, "hustle" player that the Sox should pattern. I can see him, Don Cooper and Greg Walker, an ex-White Sox turn this team around. If I recall, Backman also has some playoff/World Series experience, so why not him?

As for GM...thoughts please on this. Who would best be a GM to take over this team, make some deals, and stockpile talent while working for a "small market" organization?

fquaye149
05-24-2003, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
The difference between winning & losing close games very often comes down to a single action. You either make the big play or you don't. The Twins have a habit of making every play they need to against the Sox. They came up with the big play (Hunter's catch) when they needed to in order to win. Our big plays against the Twins are usually big-bad (Valentin's error) and cause us to lose. Both of those things did happen & they did sweep us...not barely...three games in a row!!!!

Yes, the Cobain reference was stupid & in poor taste. I used it to point out how silly "they barely swept us" sounds.


regardless the fact remains they could have just as easily dropped one or two to us. surely you can see the difference between getting swept in 4-5 run games and getting beat by individual plays. it's equivalent to saying boston barely lost the world series in 1986. to say that the red sox got trampled by the mets would hardly be true just like saying we just can't beat the twins this year and that they proved their superiority to us by sweeping us isn't true. so yeah they BARELY SWEPT US, just like mookie wilson barely got the game winning hit against boston in 1986. maybe close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, but in a 162 game season i think losing a few one run games hardly indicates that you're getting handled.