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MetalliSox
05-21-2003, 04:01 PM
This was posted on the White Sox AOL Board by compy75@aol.com. Comments?

"Alright, guys (and girls) this is getting really bad right now when we can't open our eyes. The absolute ignorance towards the Sox troubles is getting tiresome and sad. Fact of the situation is that Frank is NOT the trouble with the White Sox. We should all be pleased or at least content thus far. Lets take a look at the numbers and maybe your eyes will be open. It seems that Brian is the only one reasonable here to see the light.

-Frank leads the team in: HR, 2B, Walks, OBP, SLG, (Which of course means he leads in OPS)
He is also 2nd on the team in Runs scored.

You fools like to point to Frank's RBI, well lets take a look at bats with runners in scoring position:
Maggs: 56
Konerko: 40
Lee: 35
Frank: 29

That should be telling tale as to why he hasn't be driving in runs, there hasven't been runs to be driven in!

Hell, Konerko has 11 more RISP Abs than Frank and only has 13 rbi that combined with league leading 9 GIDP!! Where are the fingers pointing, where are people saying HE is the reason why aren't winning!? It also doesn't help when your number 2 hitter Valentin is on base at a .304 clip? How can you expect your middle of the order to produce when your #2 isn't ever on base? You take away his 9 home runs and 9 ABs with them, he is on base at a .172 clip? Thats absolutely horrific. Pitchers get on more than that. Would it be that terrible to take Graffanino and his .378 OBP and couple it with DJ and his .391 OBP at the top of the order? I mean I love Crede and see that he needs his shot, but a .228 avg and .258 obp is killing this lineup because it means Valentin is batting 2nd!
People will say pitching is the problem, I disagree. Buehrle has had his troubles, yes. But the fact is we are 12th in the AL in runs scored in front of only Cleveland by 3 and Detroit.

So what do you we do if we want to win NOW.
-We bench Crede and his .252 OBP, use him as a D replacement and start Graffanino at 3B. In late innings we move Graff to SS.

-We put together a lineup that GETS on base. We are 11th in OBP, slipping past Tampa along with the prior mentioned Cleveland and Detroit.

-We either trade Konerko or bench him. The guy hasn't be sputtering to start the year, its been continous since the All Star Break here are him cum. numbers:
388 ABs .252 41 R 9 HR 46 RBI
For comparions sake, here is the ballyhoed Thomas:
371 .267 55 R 23 HR 56 RBI
Konerko is the problem (He also has the lowest SLG on the team), Daubach can help us. Despite his horrid start he still posts a .328 OBP. Taking that as it may, I tend to think this lineup may put a few more runs on the board if we have the patience to play the hand:

Jiminez (.398 OBP)
Graffy (.378 OBP)
Frank (.414 OBP)
Maggs (.352 OBP)
Daubach (.328 OBP)
Lee (.311 OBP .458 SLG)
Valentin (.304 OBP, .500 SLG)
Rios/Konerko (Here is the spot that is killing us, we can't put Daubach in rf, can we?)
Olivo/Alomar (.299/.304)

If we front log our lineup with on base guys, stats tell us there will be more on base for high slugging guys like Lee and Valentin to drive in. I hope if you care about the Sox you will take solace with these numbers and your biased views will be altered somewhat. I'm not counting on it but it was worth a shot."

xil357
05-21-2003, 04:19 PM
Numbers don't lie, but I would argue that you might want to put Frank at 1B and Daubach at DH, because Frank historically hits better when he plays the field.

Konerko needs to spend some time on the DL to get healthy. I would give him until the All Star break to get well. That would also allow him, when he is well, to do a rehab stint at Charlotte. By then we will know where he is and where the team is.

However, if they do this, what does that say for Crede? Are his days numbered? How can he improve his hitting if he's riding the bench? Shouldn't we give him time with Greg Walker as hitting coach?

I'm all for moving Valentin down in the lineup. I also support getting Graffy in the order, but can he maintain his numbers on a regular basis as a full-time starter? Is his defense as good as Crede's?

RKMeibalane
05-21-2003, 05:16 PM
I wouldn't put much stock in anything the Frank-haters have to say. Most of the people who make up that sorry-ass group don't even bother to follow this team on a day-to-day basis. They just look at the stat sheet and start complaining. I pitty them, because they're missing out on Frank's drive towards four hundred homers. I'm looking forward to that day, as are several others.

MHOUSE
05-21-2003, 05:22 PM
Konerko should go to the DL and get healthy. Totally agree. Frank has hit better when he plays the field and he can't be too bad out there. Crede will come around. He hit last year, he started the year hot, and he's gotten hits or at least an RBI in the last few games. He'll be ok.

RKMeibalane
05-21-2003, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Konerko should go to the DL and get healthy. Totally agree. Frank has hit better when he plays the field and he can't be too bad out there. Crede will come around. He hit last year, he started the year hot, and he's gotten hits or at least an RBI in the last few games. He'll be ok.

I think Greg Walker will help Crede. It should be interesting to see how this season plays out for Joe.

Dadawg_77
05-21-2003, 07:11 PM
I would leave Crede in there and bench Jose and put Graf at SS or 2B, maybe something a little bit more creative. Crede would only be hurt by lack of playing where as Jose is killing us and really can't mature as a ball player much. Second with our trouble in the OF, Thomas plays first for BD can help in the OF and Konkerko sits. If Pauly is hurt then he should go on the DL, with Frank moving to 1B and either Jose or Graf moving to DH (lesser SS would go). When Willie comes back move him to 2B and DJ to SS if the season is over at that point.

RKMeibalane
05-21-2003, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
I would leave Crede in there and bench Jose and put Graf at SS or 2B, maybe something a little bit more creative. Crede would only be hurt by lack of playing where as Jose is killing us and really can't mature as a ball player much. Second with our trouble in the OF, Thomas plays first for BD can help in the OF and Konkerko sits. If Pauly is hurt then he should go on the DL, with Frank moving to 1B and either Jose or Graf moving to DH (lesser SS would go). When Willie comes back move him to 2B and DJ to SS if the season is over at that point.

Willie Harris on a baseball field. That thought makes my skin crawl.

Dan H
05-22-2003, 10:14 AM
Frank is by no means the only problem but also has not been the solution. What Frank lovers won't admit is that this guy is very immature. His refusal to take even partial responsibility demonstrates this. If he is going to have a monster year, it's time to get going.

voodoochile
05-22-2003, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by Dan H
Frank is by no means the only problem but also has not been the solution. What Frank lovers won't admit is that this guy is very immature. His refusal to take even partial responsibility demonstrates this. If he is going to have a monster year, it's time to get going.

What is your point? What does this have to do with his production at the plate? What does it have to do with the number of times he is batting with RISP and his production in those AB's. I've never claimed Frank was the bastion of maturity, insight and poise - and his media saavy wouldn't fill an eye-dropper, but what does any of it have to do with the fact that...

-Frank leads the team in: HR, 2B, Walks, OBP, SLG, (Which of course means he leads in OPS)

Just curious...

Bobby Thigpen
05-22-2003, 11:19 AM
Frank is by no means the only problem but also has not been the solution. What Frank lovers won't admit is that this guy is very immature. His refusal to take even partial responsibility demonstrates this. If he is going to have a monster year, it's time to get going.

Dan, Dan, Dan. There you go attacking Frank again. I just for the life of me can't understand why anyone would do that.

RKMeibalane
05-22-2003, 12:26 PM
I think WSI should have a virtual Survivor Series between the "Frank-lovers" and the "Frank-haters." For thsoe you who aren't sure what I mean, a Survivor Series match is wrestling match that includes different teams who compete against each other. There are usually two teams competing, but it is possible for several to compete at once. In order to win, one team must eliminate all of other team's members.

Iwritecode
05-22-2003, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I think WSI should have a virtual Survivor Series between the "Frank-lovers" and the "Frank-haters." For thsoe you who aren't sure what I mean, a Survivor Series match is wrestling match that includes different teams who compete against each other. There are usually two teams competing, but it is possible for several to compete at once. In order to win, one team must eliminate all of other team's members.

Actually, I'm more in favor of a "rock-em sock-em" robots tourney...

:D:

Dan H
05-23-2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
What is your point? What does this have to do with his production at the plate? What does it have to do with the number of times he is batting with RISP and his production in those AB's. I've never claimed Frank was the bastion of maturity, insight and poise - and his media saavy wouldn't fill an eye-dropper, but what does any of it have to do with the fact that...



Just curious...

This is my point. When Manuel said the team should look in the mirror, he didn't single out Frank Thomas, but Thomas reacted that way. The team needed leadership, and it didn't get it.

I really don't hate Frank Thomas as much as I am disappointed in him. In my book, I wrote about my first time seeing him in person and how awed I was about his hitting ability. I've seen many games when I thought I was watching the best hitter in baseball and was awed again. I just don't think Thomas is the player he used to be, and he needs to take stock of himself. Life is too short for this stuff.

The Frank Thomas story is a sad one. He should have owned this town. He never will, and he can't just blame the media for that. I hope other posters are right. I'd like to see the Thomas of 1993. I just don't think that we will.