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dwnstatesoxfan
05-20-2003, 10:04 PM
Does anybody else notice that the Sox television broadcasts are like tuning into a funeral these days? Harrelson seems like he's just tired of doing the job. Additionally, I get the impression that he's been muzzled by management.

One night not to long ago, when the Sox lost, I pulled out a video tape of a Sox game from 1990 (I used to tape them when I worked nights) and watched it. Hawk was full of energy, criticized players when they deserved it, and just seemed to have fun.

Now, he's gotten rid of the "grab some bench" line, he is hesitant to say anything negative when the team screws up, and he just seems disinterested.

It's quite a contrast. Anymore, it's just depressing to listen to, when it used to be fun. I know Paciorek is gone, but the Hawk just seems to have lost his edge...or maybe it was taken away from him.

I'd like to know what's going on, but it seems like it all coincides with Paciorek leaving. Was Paciorek pushed out to take the broadcasts in a different direction? Was Hawk told to tone down? Something definitely happened. Even the game in 2000 when they won the division were more boring than the 1990 tape I watched.

Daver
05-20-2003, 10:06 PM
Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

RKMeibalane
05-20-2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by dwnstatesoxfan
Does anybody else notice that the Sox television broadcasts are like tuning into a funeral these days? Harrelson seems like he's just tired of doing the job. Additionally, I get the impression that he's been muzzled by management.

One night not to long ago, when the Sox lost, I pulled out a video tape of a Sox game from 1990 (I used to tape them when I worked nights) and watched it. Hawk was full of energy, criticized players when they deserved it, and just seemed to have fun.

Now, he's gotten rid of the "grab some bench" line, he is hesitant to say anything negative when the team screws up, and he just seems disinterested.

It's quite a contrast. Anymore, it's just depressing to listen to, when it used to be fun. I know Paciorek is gone, but the Hawk just seems to have lost his edge...or maybe it was taken away from him.

I'd like to know what's going on, but it seems like it all coincides with Paciorek leaving. Was Paciorek pushed out to take the broadcasts in a different direction? Was Hawk told to tone down? Something definitely happened. Even the game in 2000 when they won the division were more boring than the 1990 tape I watched.

It's possible Sox management has tightened the reigns on Hawk in the past few years. I can remember back when Sox games were fun and exciting, even if the Sox lost. Hawk was into the games, and it was clear that he had a passion for his job. He definitely isn't the same play-by-play that many of us here at WSI remember.

Of course, I think anyone would be bored watching this year's team. The only things that grab my attention are Frank's homeruns as he marches towards four hundred, and anything Bartolo Colon does. I've enjoyed watching him, especially since he started pitching well.

Lip Man 1
05-20-2003, 10:33 PM
You can't blame Hawk for wanting to keep his job.

Lip

T Dog
05-20-2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by dwnstatesoxfan
... Anymore, it's just depressing to listen to, when it used to be fun. I know Paciorek is gone, but the Hawk just seems to have lost his edge...or maybe it was taken away from him.

I'd like to know what's going on, but it seems like it all coincides with Paciorek leaving. Was Paciorek pushed out to take the broadcasts in a different direction? Was Hawk told to tone down? Something definitely happened. Even the game in 2000 when they won the division were more boring than the 1990 tape I watched.

It should be obvious that Paciorek didn't leave the Sox voluntarily. I have heard that that Hawk was responsible for the pushing. Hawk's ego is too big to share the spotlight with a charismatic partner. His ego also is too big to follow orders to tone it down. If he is getting tired of his job, I wouldn't mind seeing him call hit quits. The Sox could replace him with Bill Melton and maybe team him with Paciorek.

LuvSox
05-20-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by T Dog
It should be obvious that Paciorek didn't leave the Sox voluntarily. I have heard that that Hawk was responsible for the pushing. Hawk's ego is too big to share the spotlight with a charismatic partner.

Bingo. How about Torborg-Paciorek?

RKMeibalane
05-20-2003, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by T Dog
It should be obvious that Paciorek didn't leave the Sox voluntarily. I have heard that that Hawk was responsible for the pushing. Hawk's ego is too big to share the spotlight with a charismatic partner. His ego also is too big to follow orders to tone it down. If he is getting tired of his job, I wouldn't mind seeing him call hit quits. The Sox could replace him with Bill Melton and maybe team him with Paciorek.

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing John Rooney work Sox games on TV in the future. I've listened to him a few times on radio, and he's excellent. Just as long as they don't include Ed Farmer in TV broadcasts. I can't stand that guy. He whines constantly.

balz1472
05-21-2003, 08:36 AM
Farmer has the problem of the fact that he knows how baseball was really well (when he played), but he does not know how baseball is now. I think they need an overhaul across the board.

I do agree that Rooney is solid and DJ is starting to get more comfortable with his role, but Hawk and Farmer seem bored with the games. They are constantly complaining about how baseball is so much worse now compared to when they played. Particularly, I was watching the beating on Monday against Toronto... he and DJ kind of got into it a couple of times when comparing players now and back in "his era".

Hullett_Fan
05-21-2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by T Dog
The Sox could replace him with Bill Melton and maybe team him with Paciorek.


Melton?? No thanks. IMO, he brings nothing to the table in terms of analysis or enthusiasm.

Wouldn't mind seeing Paciorek back in the booth though. I think Dave Wills would do well on play-by-play.

pudge
05-21-2003, 01:48 PM
Wimpy rules. I hope Hawk wasn't the one to push him out, I thought they were a great team. As for 1990, that is my favorite Sox team... it was a fun season and the last in Old Comiskey... it's no shock Hawk sounded more upbeat back then... how would you feel broadcasting this terrible 2003 team?

harwar
05-21-2003, 01:50 PM
I like Hawk because he gets his guts ripped out just like us when the Sox blow another one.DJ is a lot better than he used to be as color guy but i will never like the guy after hearing him cheer "Chrissy" Singleton crossing the plate with the leading run for the A's.I know they are really good friends but that guy needs to get his priorities straight.. White SOX - FIRST, Chrissy - second.

Hangar18
05-21-2003, 03:38 PM
First thing Id do when I become a billionaire and Take the Sox from Reinsdorf
1. Build new stadium
2. Steal Bob Uecker from the Brewers as our TV Guy.
Id pay him whatever it took to get him here...

Dan H
05-22-2003, 09:10 AM
Recent broadcasts are just plain bad. I think that Harrelson is so emotionally involved can be a bad thing. It's okay to sound disappointed when things go bad, but you don't have to be a manic depressive about it. Sometimes people can be in a job too long. Harrelson needs to do something else. DJ would also be better off elsewhere. No way would I want Dave Wills in the booth. Melton is good where he is. The TV crew needs new blood just like the rest of the organization.

Hangar18
05-22-2003, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by Dan H
Recent broadcasts are just plain bad. I think that Harrelson is so emotionally involved can be a bad thing. It's okay to sound disappointed when things go bad, but you don't have to be a manic depressive about it. Sometimes people can be in a job too long. Harrelson needs to do something else. DJ would also be better off elsewhere. No way would I want Dave Wills in the booth. Melton is good where he is. The TV crew needs new blood just like the rest of the organization.

Bob Ueckers 2nd class citizen schtick, along with his blue-collar work ethic/background would make him a NATURAL for the White Sox TV Job. Id watch the games just for him. I love Uecker

gosox41
05-22-2003, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Dan H
Recent broadcasts are just plain bad. I think that Harrelson is so emotionally involved can be a bad thing. It's okay to sound disappointed when things go bad, but you don't have to be a manic depressive about it. Sometimes people can be in a job too long. Harrelson needs to do something else. DJ would also be better off elsewhere. No way would I want Dave Wills in the booth. Melton is good where he is. The TV crew needs new blood just like the rest of the organization.


Hawk is nothing but a puppet controlled by management. He sugarcoats every move that Sox make. If Hawk played on a team where a 'White Flag Trade' was made do you think he'd gather his teammates around and explain why it was such a good move or do you think he'd be pissed off. I remember in '97 the day that trade was made he was talking about what a wonderful thing it was. He must have been the only current or ex-player to be positive about it. I have a hard time believing he was sincere and lost all respect for him that day.

He has a major league ego and from what I hear had a lot to do with Wimpy being forced out. He's working on trying to convert DJ over to being a mindless drone, but it's only worked a little so far. I love those uncomfortable silences when you can tell that DJ is just sick of Hawks bantering. "I love this, I love that..." " He just missed it."

It's old and worn out.

Bob

Fisk72
05-22-2003, 12:25 PM
If it were a lazy Saturday afternoon and I wanted to take a nap and I had a choice between a tennis match, golf tourneyment, or a Sox game on tv to lull me to sleep, I'd pick the Sox game. I just can't stand how monotone both Hawk and DJ are. My buddy from Pittsburgh always rips us because he gets the Sox games whenever they're on WGN and absolutely can't stand our announcers - I don't blame him since the Pirates actually have really animated ones. Hawk's been around way too long and should really consider retiring. Wimpy was great and the fact that we don't have him around anymore is the problem. By the way, didn't he try switching his name to "Duke" or was that just a joke a few years back that Hawk started?

MarqSox
05-22-2003, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Fisk72
If it were a lazy Saturday afternoon and I wanted to take a nap and I had a choice between a tennis match, golf tourneyment, or a Sox game on tv to lull me to sleep, I'd pick the Sox game. I just can't stand how monotone both Hawk and DJ are. My buddy from Pittsburgh always rips us because he gets the Sox games whenever they're on WGN and absolutely can't stand our announcers - I don't blame him since the Pirates actually have really animated ones. Hawk's been around way too long and should really consider retiring. Wimpy was great and the fact that we don't have him around anymore is the problem. By the way, didn't he try switching his name to "Duke" or was that just a joke a few years back that Hawk started?

I think Paciorek himself started the "Duke" thing as a way to offset Hawk's constantly calling him "Wimpy." Sounded like Hawk was a little slow to accept "Duke," but he eventually did ...

Hangar18
05-22-2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Fisk72
If it were a lazy Saturday afternoon and I wanted to take a nap and I had a choice between a tennis match, golf tourneyment, or a Sox game on tv to lull me to sleep, I'd pick the Sox game. I just can't stand how monotone both Hawk and DJ are. My buddy from Pittsburgh always rips us because he gets the Sox games whenever they're on WGN and absolutely can't stand our announcers - I don't blame him since the Pirates actually have really animated ones. Hawk's been around way too long and should really consider retiring. Wimpy was great and the fact that we don't have him around anymore is the problem. By the way, didn't he try switching his name to "Duke" or was that just a joke a few years back that Hawk started?

Actually, Hawk started Calling Paciorek "WIMPY" for a while, and that kind of became his unofficial nickname. I dont think Paciorek liked that name very much, so all of a sudden, he was being called "The Duke". That name didnt stick well with me, only because "Hawk and Wimpy" kind of flowed together. In Reality, those 2 worked/sounded really good together, their voices are disctinctly Different from each other. Theyre missing something now that Paciorek isnt around, the guys a Goofball and he is missed in the booth. His personality meshed well with on-air persona. DJ has gotten very good, but hes too laid back,which isnt a bad thing, just doesnt match with HAWK.

Foulke You
05-22-2003, 02:00 PM
Hawk forcing Pacoriek out of the booth I believe is an urban Sox myth created by Hawk haters. I've never heard any concrete evidence supporting that theory.

I once heard Tom Pacoriek interviewed on the Score in 2000 when DJ first started and Wimpy was doing some Tiger games part time. Wimpy stated that the reason he was dismissed was certain Sox marketing employees related to the TV broadcasts wanted him to change his style. Wimpy responded by saying that he had done things the same way for years and wasn't going to change now for them so "forward thinking" Sox executives decided to dismiss him in favor of Darrin Jackson.

In retrospect it might have been a better idea to team Hawk with John Rooney in the TV booth and break DJ in on the radio with Ed Farmer. However, Farmer and Rooney have good chemistry together and they probably didn't want to break that up.

Procol Harum
05-22-2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
However, Farmer and Rooney have good chemistry together and they probably didn't want to break that up.

I miss the Hawk/Wimpy pairing, but if you're asking me who needs to go, it's Farmer/Rooney I'd like to see put out to pasture. That pair makes me want to reach for the double super-charged mocha espresso Big Gulp everytime I listen to them. Ideally, your radio play-by-play team should not hold the regional franchise for Sandman, Inc.

An old poster to this site, Xerxes, used to do some hilarious parodies of Farmer's inane ramblings--they should probably be made into a separate archived section.


:farmer

"Criticism of radio announcers? I've heard a lot of ballplayers get criticized. I remember when they used to criticize former Sox second-sacker Mike Andrews. Mike was originally from Orange County in California--not near the ocean like Newport Beach, but from Tustin, about 20 miles inland. They call that section of Orange County the "Inland Empire" actually--used to grow a lot of oranges out there, hence the name Orange County. The 55 cuts right through that section of Orange County and through Tustin and it can take you down to the ocean at Newport Beach, or back out to Tustin--depends where ya want to go...."

Lip Man 1
05-22-2003, 02:23 PM
Charlie Finley made a comment one time as a slap at Bill Veeck that unfortunately seems to have some truth again today

The comment was "you can't ballyhoo a funeral."

Lip

Foulke You
05-22-2003, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Procol Harum
I miss the Hawk/Wimpy pairing, but if you're asking me who needs to go, it's Farmer/Rooney I'd like to see put out to pasture. That pair makes me want to reach for the double super-charged mocha espresso Big Gulp everytime I listen to them. Ideally, your radio play-by-play team should not hold the regional franchise for Sandman, Inc.

An old poster to this site, Xerxes, used to do some hilarious parodies of Farmer's inane ramblings--they should probably be made into a separate archived section.


:farmer

"Criticism of radio announcers? I've heard a lot of ballplayers get criticized. I remember when they used to criticize former Sox second-sacker Mike Andrews. Mike was originally from Orange County in California--not near the ocean like Newport Beach, but from Tustin, about 20 miles inland. They call that section of Orange County the "Inland Empire" actually--used to grow a lot of oranges out there, hence the name Orange County. The 55 cuts right through that section of Orange County and through Tustin and it can take you down to the ocean at Newport Beach, or back out to Tustin--depends where ya want to go...."

I guess it is all a matter of personal taste and opinions. There is no right or wrong answer. While you dislike our radio duo, I happen ot think that Ed Farmer and John Rooney do a great job. In fact, I bring my radio with me to the ballpark so I can listen to their call while I'm at the game.

Another thing I've noticed is that Sox fans tend to get more critical of the announcers when things are going bad. I don't remember any animosity towards Hawk, Farmer, or Rooney when we were winning in 2000. I guess losing brings the announcers under the microscope since it is their job to entertain us when the team can't.

Hangar18
05-22-2003, 02:42 PM
Bread and Circuses ?

oldcomiskey
05-23-2003, 08:33 AM
oh please---the reason wimpy left was simple----hes getting older and wanted to spend more time with his grandchildren

T Dog
05-23-2003, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
oh please---the reason wimpy left was simple----hes getting older and wanted to spend more time with his grandchildren

That's why he went out and lined up color jobs with three teams for the next season. (I hope the absence of teal was an oversight.)

Paciorek was doing Seattle games last year. When things in Seattle were very different with no one going to the games and he was new to the broadcasting game, he did an Elvis impersonation for a promo of Elvis night that everybody loved. It was an extension of promotions he did with the Mariners when he was still playing for them. But last season, management came down on him for not taking his job seriously.

On this board, a lot of posters wax nostalgic about the days when Sox announcers attacked players and the team the way that Tribune columnists do today. I miss the fun Paciorek had with the game. Listening to an announcer is supposed to be like listening to a friend describe what is happening on the field.

Gammons Peter
05-23-2003, 11:28 AM
The Wimpy nickname didn't come from Hawk, it goes
back to his minor league days with the Dodgers

T Dog
05-23-2003, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by Gammons Peter
The Wimpy nickname didn't come from Hawk, it goes
back to his minor league days with the Dodgers

Paciorek liked to eat hamburgers, as did the Wimpy character in the Popeye cartoon.

TornLabrum
05-24-2003, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by T Dog
Paciorek liked to eat hamburgers, as did the Wimpy character in the Popeye cartoon.

And the "Duke" alternative nickname came from his impersonation of John Wayne.