View Full Version : No Good Baseball Minds in Upper Management

05-20-2003, 07:50 AM
The problem with the White Sox is VERY SIMPLE. We have no good baseball minds within the organization. From the owner to the GM to the manager and even to the players, we have no baseball smarts. Obviously, it's most important up top and unfortunatley that is where the White Sox' biggest problems seem to be. So until Reinsdorf either sells the team or Ken WIlliams is replaced by a COMPETENT, EXPERIENCED GM, our thoughts and feelings are meaningless and futile. It's sad but oh-so true. So until changes up top are made by bringing in a good baseball mind or two, this team will not win. You can bank on it! :whiner: :whiner:

05-20-2003, 10:38 AM
This is the best and truest post I've ever seen on this site. Someone has to at least acknowledge this or respond. Come on people!

05-20-2003, 11:40 AM
...but compared to other major league teams, the Sox management actually is pretty average.

Cases in point:

Texas Rangers: They have a very generous owner and a great cash-cow and fan-friendly stadium. They hire one of the biggest names for GM (John Hart), steal away one of the architects of Billy Beane's success in Oakland (Grady Fuson) and hire Buck Showalter as manager. Yet they are approaching their fourth consecutive losing season, have a lineup built around free-agents-to-be Carl Everett and Juan Gonzalez and have Ismael Valdes as their staff ace and something like $50 million tied up in Chan Ho Park over the next five or so seasons, who currently is pitching like garbage on a rehab assignment for their AA affiliate.

Cubs: Untold resources, ownership willing to spend and a pretty good record of hiring experienced field managers (Riggleman, Baylor and Baker had previous successes). Yet they have what, three winning seasons since 1980? Enough said.

Mets: Vast resources, generous ownership, etc. Look how terrible they are this year. Ever since their WS loss to the Yankees, they have sucked.

Tampa Bay. Detroit. Minnesota (how would you like Carl Pohlad as your owner, willing to take a check in exchange for eliminating his team!?). Kansas City. Milwaukee (even with Selig as commish they can't win!).

To his credit, this owner is the same man who owned the Bulls and was part of the effort to bring six NBA titles to Chicago. He made the gutsy move to see Doug Collins fired and replaced him with Phil Jackson. This in no way diminishes the contribution of Michael Jordan, however. But Reinsdorf at least recognized the need to keep Jordan happy with generous contracts and kept Krause around despite calls for his head. To own a team that wins six titles in eight years (and would have won the other two years if Jordan's father hadn't been killed) in the era of free agency was an accomplishment that likely never will be repeated in professional sports.

Now I understand that baseball is different than basketball. However, to be fair there have been some gutsy moves that have to be considered in the light of the present situation. (For purposes of brevity, I do not consider minor payroll-influenced moves with which JR likely doesn't bother.)

Sammy Sosa for George Bell. I dare anyone to say they weren't on board with this at the time. It turned out to be a bad trade in the long run, but I think we all applauded it at the time.

Not signing Jack McDowell to a long-term contract. In the long run, this worked out. McDowell had a hip problem that affected his delivery and put more strain on his arm. For all intents and purposes, he was finished after 94.

Not signing Mark Buherle to a long-term contract. If JR had caved and they signed Buehrle long-term, we would be screaming right now with his struggles.

LaMarr Hoyt for Ozzie Guillen. Great move. Perhaps overpaid at the time but Ozzie was great for 10 seasons while Hoyt was busted for cocaine within a year.

White Flag trade. We only have Billy Koch to show for it now, but where exactly are Wilson Alvarez and Danny Darwin today? Koch is basically an Anglo Roberto Hernandez.

Signing Carlton Fisk. Signing Tom Seaver. Not signing Alex Fernandez (where is he now?) Signing Julio Franco (statistically, Frank had his best season with Franco protecting him in 94).

Signing Albert Belle. That's who Frank wanted to bat behind him. It was a lot of money and he was a clubhouse cancer but we didn't lose anything.

Brook Fordyce, et. al. for Charles Johnson. Who didn't applaud this move at the time? Johnson was superior defensively and offensively at the time of the trade. Who knew that Fordyce was so important in the clubhouse and with the pitchers?

Mike Sirotka, et. al. for David Wells. Has Sirotka pitched it a major leage game since? Yes, they should have done their homework on Wells enourmous stomach and ego, but the motives for the move were sound at the time.

Kip Wells, et. al. for Todd Ritchie. Their errors here were two-fold. Paying too much for something you badly needed (and getting taken to the cleaners as a result) and trading for someone who was, at best, an average performer in the inferior National League.

Keith Foulke, et. al. for Billy Koch. Still too early to tell but not promising. Gave up too easily on Foulke, who was turning it around at the end of last year, and taken advantage of by Billy Beane.

Jeff Liefer, Rocky Biddle, et. al. for Roberto Colon. A steal, and a good job taking advantage of the Yankee's - Red Sox rivalry. This would be better if we would sign Colon to a long-term contract soon before he hits free agency as Colon is a proven and durable commodity (unlike McDowell, Fernandez, Alvarez and yes, even Buehrle).

You can fault them for is the trades turning out badly, but you have to at least give them credit for making an effort with recent moves like the trades for Wells, Ritchie, Colon and Koch. The other things you can blame them for is firing Tony LaRussa and Larry Himes and letting Jeff Torborg leave.

However, there was one unforgivable sin that has nothing to do with the team on the field -- the 94 players strike and the owners' unwillingness to compromise, with JR as the main ring leader.

It is for that reason alone -- denied an opportunity to compete for a title with the best on-field team the Sox have had since 1919 -- that the relationship between the fans and the owner has soured and that we as Sox fans would be better off with another owner and management.

Jerry, please sell to a consortium of Mark Cuban, Mike Veeck and some wealthy Chicagoans.

05-20-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by ssang
This is the best and truest post I've ever seen on this site. Someone has to at least acknowledge this or respond. Come on people!

Way to be modest about your post that is saying the same things that have been said over and over.

05-20-2003, 08:10 PM
What are the Chances that Oakland will fire Billy Beane for no reason........and he falls right into the Sox Laps? What are the chances.......that some Minor League Free Agent, undrafted, but with Franchise Turn-Around Capabilities, will be Skipped over by the first 15 teams because he makes an Exorbitant $$$$ Grab-Demand, and falls right into the Sox Laps? What are the chances the Media decides that Dirty South is COOL now......and Showers us with all the positive Media Attention we could ever want, making people visit the stadium, wear our clothing?

Snowballs chance...

Lip Man 1
05-20-2003, 10:37 PM
In my opinion two things are stopping a quality GM like a Walt Jocketty or brian sabean (to name just two) from ever considering the Sox.

1. The size of the Sox payroll
2. Knowing they don't have complete unilateral authority of player moves anything big has to be squared with Uncle Jerry.

I just don't think you are going to find anyone experienced and competent who'll work under those conditions.


Joel Perez
05-20-2003, 10:45 PM
It's kind of like working at the Chicago Blackhawks organ-i-zation....little competence at the Top, and the players are left to wonder for themselves.

The day that the Sox are going to be World Series contenders is the day that Jerry Riensdork sells the team...pure and simple. He is just too interested with the Bulls moreso with the South Siders.

An alternative is to find a more competent, baseball oriented GM who can pull off some shrewd trades, along with drafting the best offensive and defensive baseball players around. The draft and the minor leagues have been churning out some good ones lately, but due to the lack of leadership up top, along with the incompetence from the so-called teachers to mentor the players, the players are now looking like idiots when they step onto the field...this is the worst baserunning Sox team that I have ever seen!!! And we will not mention the defense...Oh, how much I miss a young Ozzie Guillen, a 30-year old Carlton Fisk behind the plate, and a young Frank Thomas who actually gave a damn back in the early 90s before success got to his head.

There...I feel better now.... :gulp: Another Shiner Bock bites the dust.

05-20-2003, 10:54 PM
I always thought that Jerry Reinsdorf was known for his extensive baseball knowledge