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View Full Version : *Official* Game Day Thread 5-18-03 White Sox at Minnesota


Jjav829
05-18-2003, 01:28 PM
Use this thread and only this thread if you must post a comment about tonight's game. All other threads will be deleted! Otherwise, please join us in the WSI chat room (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/chat.php?s=) for a discussion of tonight's game.

Esteban Loaiza tries to salvage this series when he takes the hill against Kyle Lohse.

Leonidas
05-18-2003, 04:40 PM
Isn't this great?! The Sox are going to throw away a win! I give them about 2% chance of not going 3 up 3 down in the ninth. What a shame, Loiza did such a good job of getting out of some jams...and the Sox had such great opportunities. I think they deserve to lose this game. Pathetic.

fhqwhgads
05-18-2003, 06:13 PM
:gulp:

GO TWINS!

Daver
05-18-2003, 06:15 PM
Trolling will get you booted you know.

Lip Man 1
05-18-2003, 06:26 PM
Pitching and defense folks....it'll win or lose you a game most of the time.

Maybe "it's time" the Sox gave some serious thought to changing their overall team plan. It hasn't done squat since July 2000.

By the way this is the 4th time the Sox have lost a game when leading going into the 7th inning or later.

They have exactly one win where they were trailing going into the 7th inning or later, that was on Sunday April 6th when they rallied in the 8th to beat the Tigers 10-2.

Lip

fhqwhgads
05-18-2003, 06:44 PM
Sorry, daver. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between trolling and friendly rivalry.

However, the broom used to sweep the Sox this weekend was clenched firmly in the hands of the White Sox defense. The Twins can not take full credit for this sweep. Only the first game was truly won by the Twins, the other two were lost by the Sox.

GO TWINS!

Daver
05-18-2003, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by fhqwhgads
Sorry, daver. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between trolling and friendly rivalry.

However, the broom used to sweep the Sox this weekend was clenched firmly in the hands of the White Sox defense. The Twins can not take full credit for this sweep. Only the first game was truly won by the Twins, the other two were lost by the Sox.



On that point I will agree.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-18-2003, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Pitching and defense folks....it'll win or lose you a game most of the time.

Maybe "it's time" the Sox gave some serious thought to changing their overall team plan. It hasn't done squat since July 2000.

By the way this is the 4th time the Sox have lost a game when leading going into the 7th inning or later.

They have exactly one win where they were trailing going into the 7th inning or later, that was on Sunday April 6th when they rallied in the 8th to beat the Tigers 10-2.

Lip

Well, we got the pitching (again) from Loaiza today, but I think it is a bit of a stretch to think defense is what lost it. Our 3-7 hitters went a combined 2 for 18 with FIVE strikeouts. We scored two runs! Sorry--stellar defense ain't gonna win us too many games when that happens. This is the American League of 2003 we're talking about. The Twins were begging to get beat.

The dead-ball era is over, and so are the 1960's, decade of the pitcher and the 2.45 staff ERA. The sooner we start building our team for the 21st century of high-powered offense, the better.

2 for 18 with 5 K's. Freakin' pathetic. :angry:

Lip Man 1
05-18-2003, 10:26 PM
George:

Just wondering....

Hasn't the Sox had a "so called" high powered offense since 2000?

Or are you suggesting the bad hitting the last three years particularly in clutch situations is all the fault of the hitting coaches.

My only point was that for some reason with the Sox building a team based on offense hasn't worked.

"It's Time" to try another approach since this one hasn't succeeded

Lip

PaleHoseGeorge
05-18-2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
George:

Just wondering....

Hasn't the Sox had a "so called" high powered offense since 2000?

Or are you suggesting the bad hitting the last three years particularly in clutch situations is all the fault of the hitting coaches.

My only point was that for some reason with the Sox building a team based on offense hasn't worked.

"It's Time" to try another approach since this one hasn't succeeded

Lip

The '00 Sox weren't swept out of the ALDS because of poor pitching or lousy defense. The bats went cold, end of story. In a 3-game series, that means instant death.

I'm all for building a team on pitching. Pitching wins championships. However, all I ever read around here is "pitching and defense" wins championships. Maybe that was true back in 1968--when the ERA for the entire league was 2.98--but it's a load of bull**** today. Have you been paying attention at all the last 3 decades? ERA's are twice as large today, and defensive prowess commensurately less valuable.

You know why the Chicago White Sox have won only one pennant since 1919? Because the dead-ball era ended in 1920. I suggest we all finally come to grips with this fact and stop talking about trying to swim against the tide of 5+ ERA's and tinkertoy-sized baseball stadiums, with tighter defense. Waiting another 40+ years for a pennant appearance isn't my idea of success.

Pitching, si! Defense, no!

ma-gaga
05-18-2003, 11:03 PM
Pitching and defense go hand in hand. You're trying to tell me that Kyle 'big hat' Lohse is a great pitcher??? No. He's got solid defenders backing him up, making him look better than he is.

There are only a few pitchers that don't need good defenses behind them. Bill James attempted to quantify this once, but he's just a numbers geek, and really, what does he know? Anyways, he figured approximately 53% of games are pitching/defense, and that good pitching is usually a result of good defense.

Take it for what it's worth. Defense is important.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-18-2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by ma-gaga
Pitching and defense go hand in hand. You're trying to tell me that Kyle 'big hat' Lohse is a great pitcher??? No. He's got solid defenders backing him up, making him look better than he is.

There are only a few pitchers that don't need good defenses behind them. Bill James attempted to quantify this once, but he's just a numbers geek, and really, what does he know? Anyways, he figured approximately 53% of games are pitching/defense, and that good pitching is usually a result of good defense.

Take it for what it's worth. Defense is important.

If Lohse can't pitch, all the defense in the world won't keep him from losing the game. The pitcher (and catcher) handle the ball five-times more than the seven remaining defenders combined!

Let me put it to you a different way. Pitching is the single-most important part of any team, and position players back up a pitcher's effort with good defense. HOWEVER, there isn't any position player on the field--with the possible exception of the catcher--who is MORE valuable for their glove than they are for their bat. Last time I checked the team that scores more runs wins every ballgame, and nobody--in the entire history of the game--has scored a run with their glove.

Yes, defense is important. Just not as important as what those same players do with their bat. Capisce?

Nellie_Fox
05-19-2003, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Last time I checked the team that scores more runs wins every ballgame. And, by logical extension, the team that allows the fewest runs wins every ballgame.

Sorry George, this is a team built around a high-powered offense. Name one guy in the lineup who you think got there for his glove. Could it be that the league ERA's are so high compared to the past is because everyone builds around offense? Which is the cause and which is the effect?

As was stated above, defense makes pitching much better. Even really good pitchers start nibbling when they have no faith in the defense. And, when they start nibbling, they get behind in the count. They get behind in the count, they get killed.

This is a bad defensive club.