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Viva Magglio
05-17-2003, 11:11 PM
I was at the University of Illinois earlier this evening watching Itch Jones' baseball Illini drop an 10-inning affair to Iowa 5-4. I listened to most of the Sox game on the way up I-57. Corpseball has returned, folks. The Orioles series is proving to be a mere fluke, and we have shown our true selves in Minnesota this weekend.

I don't know what we should do. Fire Manuel? Fire someone else? Trade a player? I am just totally pissed off over how this season has gone. For the third season in a row, amid the organization talking out of its ass about how good we are on paper, the Sox have come out flat.

Despite my not knowing what should happen, I do know that something needs to be done. Now. This crap has gone on since mid-2000, and I want it to stop.

And I am finding myself continually angered that the Cubs keep winning, as if their "destined." On the way down I-57 to U of I, I was listening to the Cardinals broadcast of that game on KMOX-AM (1120), and it frustrated me how St. Louis failed to execute. I know that it really is not proper for us Sox fans to be preoccupied with how the Cubs are doing, but I cannot help myself. Their success comes at our social expense, and their success manifests the annoying media fawning and some Cub fans' unbearable mastrubation over their team's success. For us, it's like the triumph of evil over good.

Jurr
05-18-2003, 12:21 AM
Hypertension is a bad thing. You're going to have it if you freak out every time the Sox lose. Do you think these guys have a championship level team? no. So don't freak out.

guillen4life13
05-18-2003, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by Jurr
Hypertension is a bad thing. You're going to have it if you freak out every time the Sox lose. Do you think these guys have a championship level team? no. So don't freak out.

I for one am frustrated to high hell! Why? Because, yes, I do think this is team, on paper, is of championship quality. Based on prior performances, plus the unexpected sprouting of Esteban Loaiza, this team should be in first place in the central... at least! We haven't had this good a team (on paper) since 1993, when we sported guys in the rotation like Alex Fernandez, Wilson Alvarez, Jack McDowell, and Jason Bere (when he was good). This year, we have Buehrle, Colon, and Loaiza, all three of whom have proven (well... technically Loazia hasn't) to be all star caliber starting pitchers. The bullpen of 1994 was also solid with Roberto Hernandez, Scott Radinsky, etc. Now we have a solid one (on paper) of Koch, Gordon, Glover, White, etc.

Then we can't forget the lineup! That year ('94), the lineup was pretty much as follows (I didn't follow baseball @ that time... since I was just a tad bit young, but from looking @ stats of these guys from that year, this seems to make sense):

CF Johnson
LF Raines
1B Thomas
3B Ventura
DH Franco
SS Guillen
RF D.J.
C Karko
2B Cora

Compare that to now:

2B Jimenez
SS Valentin
DH Thomas
RF Ordonez
1B Konerko
LF Lee
3B Crede
CF Crash/Willie
C Olivo

On paper, the 2003 lineup should actually be BETTER. The rotation should be just a tad bit worse, but not far off. The 'pen should now be even better than '94... but they're not. And the Sox were favored to win the world series... and looked like they were well on their way to getting far that year. Why is it that this year, even with a better team (on paper) they seem to be doing a crappy job? That's why we all really should be having high blood pressure right now... cuz this isnt' supposed to be like this... for three years in a row! A drastic change is in order.

AngelLeroy
05-18-2003, 02:48 AM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
[BThen we can't forget the lineup! That year ('94), the lineup was pretty much as follows (I didn't follow baseball @ that time... since I was just a tad bit young, but from looking @ stats of these guys from that year, this seems to make sense):

CF Johnson
LF Raines
1B Thomas
3B Ventura
DH Franco
SS Guillen
RF D.J.
C Karko
2B Cora
[/B]

Actually, I think that Ellis Burks played right field that year, at least for a while... someone correct me if I'm wrong...

doublem23
05-18-2003, 03:02 AM
Burks was in Colorado in 1994. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/burksel01.shtml)

D.J. was the starter in right for the majority of the year. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/pos.shtml)

doublem23
05-18-2003, 03:07 AM
By the way, being back on the North Side has exposed me to the Cubs again, and I am also frustrated with them and their jagoff fans (well, the majority of them).

On the bright side, they look like me like they're nothing more than a flash in the pan. Arms will give out and some of these guys will come back down to Earth. No worries! :smile:

AngelLeroy
05-18-2003, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
Burks was in Colorado in 1994. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/burksel01.shtml)

D.J. was the starter in right for the majority of the year. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/pos.shtml)

Oops, that's right... I was thinking about '93... I try to eliminate the strike year from my memory, as the "what-could-have-beens" are too much to handle.

Dan H
05-18-2003, 09:33 AM
Giving up is not the answer, but it is also not enough to talk about how good this team is on paper so I understand where Viva Maggilio is coming from. Since the start of 2001, the Sox are two games over .500 and that covers a period 2 1/4 seasons and 366 games. Either this team is not that good on paper or there is something else fundamentally wrong that isn't being addressed.

They needed this series in Minnesota for many reasons. Losing 3-1 because of a great defensive play by your opponent is no crime , but getting pounded 18-3 with your ace on the mound was inexcusable. Especially in the first game of an important series. It is time to stop talking about potential; it is time to produce. How many more decades or centuries do we have to wait?

cheeses_h_rice
05-18-2003, 12:26 PM
I've missed both of the Twins games due to my wife and I buying a house and having to work our asses off on it before moving in.

What was the great defensive play in the second game that prevented the Sox from winning (or tying)?

And, in counterpoint to Viva Magglio, I must say that having zero expectations about this series has meant that my aggravation level barely increased after hearing the scores. Even the Flubs beating the Cards yesterday was an "oh well" moment. Not caring works!

:)


My new motto: "Your 2003 Chicago White Sox: What-evvar."

JUGGERNAUT
05-18-2003, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Even the Flubs beating the Cards yesterday was an "oh well" moment. Not caring works!
[/B]

I may be wrong but I think it's natural for for SOX fans to be Cardinal fans. So I think we will always tune into games involving the Cub & Cards & will always root for the Cards to win. Much more so than any other Cub foe.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-18-2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
...My new motto: "Your 2003 Chicago White Sox: What-evvar."

Congratulations on the new house, cheeses. If you're going to pay real estate taxes, you might as well get the tax benefit of paying them on your own property, not someone else's. Renting sucks. :smile:

I like your new motto, too. It's a great coping mechanism and I sincerely applaud your efforts to avoid getting too emotionally wrapped into this second-class outfit. In fact, I dare say you've pinpointed the precise reason the Sox can't fill their blue seats anymore. 23 seasons after JR & EE set out to build "a first-class organization", it has come to this.

Could current ownership possibly do anything more to make the fans even more apathetic?

:reinsy
"I made my fortune in real estate, cheeses. I tell ya, golf courses and cemeteries are the biggest wastes of prime real estate. Just ask Wang here. We just bought property in China along the Great Wall -- on the good side!"

:ohno
"Why, oh why, did he have to buy our Sox?"

Procol Harum
05-18-2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
I for one am frustrated to high hell! Why? Because, yes, I do think this is team, on paper, is of championship quality.

Unfortunately, they play the games on grass (real and artificial) and dirt, not paper. This team is barely capable of contending for a playoff slot, much less a championship. And what we've seen thus far--and over the last two seasons--makes it pretty clear that any hopes for this team to even provide any serious contention for a playoff spot is delusional thinking of a Cub fan-like magnitude.

And of course, making it all worse is that the Cubs actually have a few quality players and a horseshoe up their collective boo-tay this season. September is promising to be a very miserable time for Sox fans.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-18-2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Procol Harum
Unfortunately, they play the games on grass (real and artificial) and dirt, not paper. This team is barely capable of contending for a playoff slot, much less a championship. And what we've seen thus far--and over the last two seasons--makes it pretty clear that any hopes for this team to even provide any serious contention for a playoff spot is delusional thinking of a Cub fan-like magnitude.

And of course, making it all worse is that the Cubs actually have a few quality players and a horseshoe up their collective boo-tay this season. September is promising to be a very miserable time for Sox fans.

I agree. We're being delusional to think this team could challenge anybody good for a championship. We're playing the majority of our games in the worst division in the league and we positively suck.

The organization has no clue how to make our good hitters hit. It has no clue how make Jon Garland THINK like a MLB pitcher. It has no clue how to teach them how to bunt, hit the cut-off man, or play small-ball in order to win those tight one-run games.

In other words, this team is ****ed up from the top down. Trading for somebody else's players, firing the manager (or even the GM) won't necessarily work.

We need a commitment to winning. Nothing short of a Cubs' fan thinking could ever confuse the current White Sox organization with that sort of commitment. :angry:

duke of dorwood
05-18-2003, 04:13 PM
:reinsy

We play on grass, why cant it be run like a real estate company?

soxnut
05-18-2003, 05:54 PM
I can't give up yet. All it is going to take is for this team to hit.(I know that sounds like a lot to ask fo right now.) This team can pitch(6th in the AL,not bad) it such a shame it gets wasted so many times. And defense really isn't that bad statistically(6th on AL, I think). If these guys just start trying to get base hits, not home runs, theres no fretting.

duke of dorwood
05-18-2003, 06:06 PM
What about the defense? The baserunning? Its not all hitting.

Lip Man 1
05-18-2003, 06:33 PM
The Sox have certainly done a 180 since the 50's and 60's haven't they?

Lip