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DustyIsOverated1
05-15-2003, 02:52 PM
The White Sox, along with many other ball clubs, have had their fair share of talent go straight to the tubes in AAA.

I guess my question is, will Joe B. ever shorten up his swing and play to his potential in the majors.....or will he fizzle like he's doing now. Seems to me we SHOULD trade him for a catcher, or we SHOULD sign a "juan pierre" type for the second half of the season or more.

I'm just not sold on this kid ever coming through. He's a big, tall, windmill and sometimes I think we are wasting our time. Same thing with Rauch

thecell
05-15-2003, 02:54 PM
The kid has all of the talent in the world and that's all you can ask for. Give him a chance...

doublem23
05-15-2003, 02:59 PM
This is a new level of pessimism when you're declaring the kid a bust after a handful of at bats.

xil357
05-15-2003, 03:02 PM
I too am salivating at the prospect of Borchard shortening his swing and patrolling left field for the next decade.

It is way to early to give up on him. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Same thing goes for Crede. We need to give him more time to get acclimated to major league pitching. Last time I recall, Robin Ventura struggled during his first full major league season. He wound up having a strong career at 3B for the Sox (too bad it didn't last longer) and was known to carry the team for several long stretches.

Paul Konerko and Carlos Lee are the players that need to be performing at a higher level. Their lack of hitting is what is harming the Sox offense right now.

idseer
05-15-2003, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by xil357
I too am salivating at the prospect of Borchard shortening his swing and patrolling left field for the next decade.

It is way to early to give up on him. Rome wasn't built in a day.



i've often wondered .... how long DID it take to build rome? and ... should we give borchard THAT much time?

hold2dibber
05-15-2003, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
This is a new level of pessimism when you're declaring the kid a bust after a handful of at bats.

He wasn't exactly awesome last year, either. His numbers were okay, but certainly nothing close to suggesting that he was going to be a star at the MLB level. I don't know enough to say he'll make it or he won't, but I must admit that this performance in Charlotte over the last 1 1/4 years has been a little bit disappointing.

xil357
05-15-2003, 03:15 PM
How much time did Borchard spend at the single-A? How long has he been playing pro baseball with a wooden bat?

Sure, he hasn't put up Herculean numbers so far, but he's just at the beginning of his pro career. Give him some time. If, after three or even four minor league seasons with little evidence of progess, then maybe it's time to, as Nixon said to Eisenhower, "Sh** or get off the pot."

It's way too early to call for trading him now. However, perhaps he could benefit from Walt Hriniak?

DustyIsOverated1
05-15-2003, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by xil357
How much time did Borchard spend at the single-A? How long has he been playing pro baseball with a wooden bat?

Sure, he hasn't put up Herculean numbers so far, but he's just at the beginning of his pro career. Give him some time. If, after three or even four minor league seasons with little evidence of progess, then maybe it's time to, as Nixon said to Eisenhower, "Sh** or get off the pot."

It's way too early to call for trading him now. However, perhaps he could benefit from Walt Hriniak?

Glad you mentioned Hriniak.....what happened with him. Von Joshua took over the riends if I'm correct..?!? Then came Gary Ward.......

My point being, if we pay Hriniak to help out thomas

a) how does that make ward feel
b) Why in the hell don't we just bring back Hriniak???

Isn't he buddy buddy with Reinsdorf anyway???

Daver
05-15-2003, 04:04 PM
If you think Borchard is having problems now,it will only be worse under Walt.

Hriniak was let go because no one outside of Frank and to some extent Robin,were able to benefit from his teachings.

Blueprint1
05-15-2003, 04:12 PM
you guys always bring up the Yankees as a team that develops talent. Well how long have they given Nick Johnson to become a major league talent? I think we need to wait as well.

WinningUgly!
05-15-2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by daver
If you think Borchard is having problems now,it will only be worse under Walt.

Hriniak was let go because no one outside of Frank and to some extent Robin,were able to benefit from his teachings. Lance Johnson also had some decent success under Hriniak. He did screw up more people than he helped, though.

hold2dibber
05-15-2003, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Lance Johnson also had some decent success under Hriniak. He did screw up more people than he helped, though.

Sosa being a prime example, IIRC.

Daver
05-15-2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Sosa being a prime example, IIRC.

He also responsible for Ray Durham deciding he was a power hitter too.

MHOUSE
05-15-2003, 04:56 PM
Borchard had a few MLB at-bats last year and hasn't had a full season in the majors. I agree he's not hitting well in AAA right now, but give him time to get chances and show his stuff. He's definately got talent and it's way to early to even suggest giving up on him.

jeremyb1
05-15-2003, 06:00 PM
i agree its too early to give up entirely on borchard but i think you have to admit he's been a pretty big dissapointment thus far. the guy hasn't dominated at any level and so far - i'll agree it is a limited sample - has failed to show any progress in his second year at AAA.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-15-2003, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Lance Johnson also had some decent success under Hriniak. He did screw up more people than he helped, though.

Ron Karkovice couldn't hit the broad side of a barn without Hriniak. Come to think of it, he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn WITH Hriniak either!

:smile:

NC_sox_fan
05-15-2003, 07:20 PM
Joe Borchard is one of the finest prospects I've ever seen. If the Sox give up on him they are even more stupid than I give them credit for.

Joe is still learning the game. I think the Sox moved him up too fast and he is struggling to fulfill everyone's expectations. Anyone who thinks he should be traded or that the Sox should give up on him has no idea of Joe's abilities.

I find that many people who post on this board have unrealistic expectations of these guys. WAKE UP -- no one is perfect all the time.

duke of dorwood
05-15-2003, 07:25 PM
Maybe thats the swing for him-maybe dont mess with it.

lowesox
05-15-2003, 09:34 PM
He just came back from an injury and the fact that the sox don't have anybody who can play CF must add pressure.

I think he has a lot of reasons to struggle right now. He'll get it together. LEt's just not rush him.

hold2dibber
05-16-2003, 08:07 AM
Originally posted by NC_sox_fan
Joe Borchard is one of the finest prospects I've ever seen. If the Sox give up on him they are even more stupid than I give them credit for.

Joe is still learning the game. I think the Sox moved him up too fast and he is struggling to fulfill everyone's expectations. Anyone who thinks he should be traded or that the Sox should give up on him has no idea of Joe's abilities.

I find that many people who post on this board have unrealistic expectations of these guys. WAKE UP -- no one is perfect all the time.

I don't think it ever makes sense to make a prospect untouchable in trade. Prospects frequently don't pan out. I don't know enough about Borchard -- I've only seen him play a few times -- to say how good he is or how good he can be. From most reports, he has awesome talent and a better chance than most to be a star. Which is all well and good, but IIRC, he is about the same age and has about the same amount of experience as Austin Kearns and Adam Dunn (I could be wrong on this, but that is my recollection), both of whom are tearing it up on the MLB level, while Joe has yet to shine at AAA. I'm not saying they should trade him or that he isn't going to pan out; I'm just saying that I for one am a bit surprised and disappointed that he hasn't started dominating in Charlotte. But I am still cautiously optimistic.

ssang
05-16-2003, 09:10 AM
I don't understand why teams, especially the Sox, don't deal their prospects more often. If you can get proven talent for a player who may or may not pan out why not make the trade. Major league baseball prospects are a crap shoot. I would take the proven talent year in and year out just to ensure that the team is always competitive in the current times.

NC_sox_fan
05-16-2003, 10:21 AM
Don't forget, the Sox gave Borchard a 5.3 million dollar signing bonus. They probably don't want to trade him just yet.

Here's what Baseball America said about Joe in December:

" In September, when Borchard could have been beginning his rookie season as an NFL quarterback taken early in the first round of the football draft, he was finishing up his second full season as a full-time baseball player with a cameo in the big leagues. The White Sox gave him a record $5.3 million bonus to earn that commitment. Borchard hasn't smoothed all the rough ends of his game as fast as Chicago had hoped but still shows tremendous potential. His 2002 season began late after he broke a bone in his right foot during spring training, but he recovered fast and played in 133 games. He looked at place in a big league clubhouse, both during spring training and at the end of the regular season. The Sox believe he will bring valuable leadership skills once he's there on a full-time basis."

boog_alou
05-16-2003, 10:32 AM
I'm not Sox fan, but I think Borchard is the goods. I think he'll be a very good ML corner outfielder one day.

But don't count on him helping the Sox to a playoff run this season. (Just to clarify, this is because (1) Borchard won't be ready to contribute as a good major league player this season, and (2) the Sox won't be making a playoff run this season)

SoxxoS
05-16-2003, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by boog_alou
I'm not Sox fan, but I think Borchard is the goods.

Why are you here then?

boog_alou
05-16-2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Why are you here then?
It's a long story. I follow the Sox closely and I have for three years, but I root against them. If you want the long version, check out one of my posts on the "Time for a Test" thread.

Iwritecode
05-16-2003, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Why are you here then?

Vic (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=230) is a Cubs fan and has a pic of Borchard in his signature...

There are a handful of non-sox fan posters hanging around here.

hold2dibber
05-16-2003, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Vic (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=230) is a Cubs fan and has a pic of Borchard in his signature...

There are a handful of non-sox fan posters hanging around here.

Including some Twinkee fans. Which I'm very appreciative of. I like occassionally getting the perspective of a non-Sox fan on here. I like talking to them a the ballpark, too. Whenever I see fans for the other team at a Sox game, I usually try to strike up a conversation. I figure if they're enough of a fan to travel to another city to see their team, they're probably a knowledgeable baseball fan. I've had great times talking to A's fans, Indians fans and Tigers fans at Comiskey.

JUGGERNAUT
05-18-2003, 09:54 AM
Look at Correy Patterson. He didn't do much in the minors either & struggled mightily in his first ML stints, but now he is looking better than average as a MLer.

Borchard has shown a nice history of elevating his game in RON situations.
I suspect it's because pitchers become less aggressive with him in those situations. He has better than Lee type speed so as a pitcher you have to be careful since a GIDP is not likely.

MHOUSE
05-18-2003, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
Look at Correy Patterson. He did do much in the minors either & struggled mightily in his first ML stints, but now he is looking better than average as a MLer.

Borchard has shown a nice history of elevating his game in RON situations.
I suspect it's because pitchers become less aggressive with him in those situations. He has better than Lee type speed so as a pitcher you have to be careful since a GIDP is not likely.

Good connection. Patterson struggled a LOT last year and now is tearing it up. Hopefully Borchard could do the same.

maurice
05-20-2003, 04:23 PM
Patterson already has almost 1000 major league at-bats. He made his major league debut at the ripe old age of 20 and is still a full year younger than Borchard. Until recently, he had a .600ish career OPS, but it looks like this will be his breakout season.

Borchard has only 36 major league at-bats, thanks to JM's refusal to start September callups. He made his major league debut last year at age 23. Until relatively recently, he spent his offseasons developing his football skills (see Henson, Drew) and has much less experience with wood bats than Patterson has. Currently, Borchard is struggling mightily with the bat at AAA while playing his home games in a band box.

I sure hope we don't have to wait two more years for Borchard to develop into a quality major league hitter. We can't afford to wait that long.

T Dog
05-20-2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by boog_alou
I follow the Sox closely and I have for three years, but I root against them.

Sounds like you're qualified to be a baseball columnist for a Chicago newspaper.

SpringfldFan
05-21-2003, 09:21 AM
I keep hearing how Borchard has so much raw talent and has "the goods" and incredible promise, etc. Given the fact that so many are saying that, I can accept that it is indeed true.

However, I would like some concrete reasons for the assertions of the talent he has. Specifically, what is it that he has shown physically and mechanically that has convinced everyone he has all this talent? I know he is "big and strong" but what else? For those who have actually seen him hit (or heard from someone who has), where does his talent and promise lie? Does he have extremely fast hands? Do his hips open fast and at the right time on any pitch? Does he have a great eye and command of where the strike zone is? Does he hit to all fields well? Is he blazingly fast? In other words, just what exactly are his "goods", physically and mechanically?