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doublem23
05-14-2003, 11:18 PM
Inspired by the thread about center field and catching prospects, I want to know what you all think are key strong and weak points in the White Sox organization... Not just on the MLB team, where we are weak at centerfield, but every affiliate from top to bottom...

Strengths
Pitching
Outfield
Second base

Weaknesses
Catcher
Shortstop
Corner Infielders

Just my opinion

WhiteSoxWinner
05-14-2003, 11:53 PM
I have to take issue with listing Catcher as a weakness. Olivo looks like a young Ivan Rodriguez. He looks like he has a great bat once he gets used to ML pitching, and we have his defense is awesome. Teams will not run because he is in the game.

Sure, it might be nice to have some guys in the pipe, but catcher is tough all around baseball, and when you have a guy like Olivo getting ready to take over the reins full time by the end of this year or next year, I can't say catcher is a weakness.

Daver
05-14-2003, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
I have to take issue with listing Catcher as a weakness. Olivo looks like a young Ivan Rodriguez. He looks like he has a great bat once he gets used to ML pitching, and we have his defense is awesome. Teams will not run because he is in the game.

Sure, it might be nice to have some guys in the pipe, but catcher is tough all around baseball, and when you have a guy like Olivo getting ready to take over the reins full time by the end of this year or next year, I can't say catcher is a weakness.

Yes it is.

MHOUSE
05-14-2003, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
I have to take issue with listing Catcher as a weakness. Olivo looks like a young Ivan Rodriguez. He looks like he has a great bat once he gets used to ML pitching, and we have his defense is awesome. Teams will not run because he is in the game.

Sure, it might be nice to have some guys in the pipe, but catcher is tough all around baseball, and when you have a guy like Olivo getting ready to take over the reins full time by the end of this year or next year, I can't say catcher is a weakness.

I completely agree. Olivo's defense alone warrants starting him and once his bat comes around coupled with his speed I think he's going to be a solid all-around catcher for a long time. Unless he never starts hitting consistently, I can't list catcher as a weakness.

Daver
05-15-2003, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
I completely agree. Olivo's defense alone warrants starting him and once his bat comes around coupled with his speed I think he's going to be a solid all-around catcher for a long time. Unless he never starts hitting consistently, I can't list catcher as a weakness.

You're wrong again.

MHOUSE
05-15-2003, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by daver
You're wrong again.

Probably. I know nothing about baseball. :D:

doublem23
05-15-2003, 12:15 AM
I agree at the MLB level, catcher isn't a weakness, but as an organization, there is nothing after Miguel.

Fridaythe13thJason
05-15-2003, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by daver
You're wrong again.

Disagreed. At the ML level, catcher is pretty solid hopefully for years to come. There are lots of teams who have absolutely nothing at the catcher position. Also, corner infield is a bit premature to say that. Joe Crede was supposed to be the savior of this org for years so I can't assume that he is done yet. SS is definitely an issue, and I think CF is a big issue. I still don't think Joe B is a CF, but I've been wrong before.

If we're talking the whole organization, then yes, I think there are few 3B and C, but those two aren't so necessary if our very young studs step it up in those two positions.

Daver, thanks for being so insightful too.

doublem23
05-15-2003, 01:55 AM
So basically what you've said is that you're more concerned about a position with two prospects, and one semi-prospect and not concerned at all with one prospect followed by nothing...

Sound logic!

jeremyb1
05-15-2003, 02:41 AM
i agree that most teams don't have tons of catching prospects, there just aren't that many good catchers out there.

i'd say pitching is definately our strength. outfield is good too with borchard, valenzuela, webster, and reed amongst others. we do have gonzalez at ss but he's struggling so far this year so that position is weak but again that's a position that very few teams have many prospects at.

DrCrawdad
05-15-2003, 06:17 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
I agree at the MLB level, catcher isn't a weakness, but as an organization, there is nothing after Miguel.

Aren't there some "experts" who say that you shouldn't try to develop catchers.

southpaw40
05-15-2003, 08:01 AM
IMO, the best stocked position in the minor leagues is left handed pitching. And I think the best left handed pitching prospect is Ryan Wing,,,I like him better than Cotts.
We also have two good shortstop prospects in Mike Morse and Andy Gonzalez.
As far as positions which are thin, IMO, corner infield spots concern me. Also, the outfield positions are a little thin, but we do have Borchard and Webster who I think will be very productive major leaguers. I think, however, that Joe Borchard will be out of position if he plays center field at the major league level.
I would have to agree that catching seems to be the biggest concern right now.

gosox41
05-15-2003, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
I have to take issue with listing Catcher as a weakness. Olivo looks like a young Ivan Rodriguez. He looks like he has a great bat once he gets used to ML pitching, and we have his defense is awesome. Teams will not run because he is in the game.

Sure, it might be nice to have some guys in the pipe, but catcher is tough all around baseball, and when you have a guy like Olivo getting ready to take over the reins full time by the end of this year or next year, I can't say catcher is a weakness.

There is no depth at catcher behind Olivo. What if he gets hurt? Josh Paul is back up here. That's not depth, it's pathetic.

Bob

Randar68
05-15-2003, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by southpaw40
IMO, the best stocked position in the minor leagues is left handed pitching. And I think the best left handed pitching prospect is Ryan Wing,,,I like him better than Cotts.
We also have two good shortstop prospects in Mike Morse and Andy Gonzalez.
As far as positions which are thin, IMO, corner infield spots concern me. Also, the outfield positions are a little thin, but we do have Borchard and Webster who I think will be very productive major leaguers. I think, however, that Joe Borchard will be out of position if he plays center field at the major league level.
I would have to agree that catching seems to be the biggest concern right now.

Morse is not a prospect.


Priorities, IMO.


1) SS. We don't have anybody beyond Gonzalez, and he is 3-4 years away at best.
2) Catcher. Behind Olivo, there isn't anyone with major league talent or potential from top to bottom.
3) 1B. Casey Rogowski and then who? There are no potential power-hitting first basemen in our system (unless Borchard were moved there)
4) 3B. Nobody with any real talent except for Micah Schnurstein (sp?) who isn't even in a full-season league yet.
5) LHP. We have a couple of relievers with potential in Ring and Munoz and Wing, Malone and Cotts as starters. Beyond that thin group, there isn't much else
6) CF. Webster, Borchard, and Jeremy Reed are all CF'ers. I don't know if Borchard can play there 5 years from now.

We have no shortage of 2B, LF'ers, or RHP's (although some might question the depth of RHP at the higher levels right now).

MarkEdward
05-15-2003, 11:30 AM
I'd say power hitting. Nobody in AA is slugging over .500. Aside from Borchard, Andy Gonzalez (who's off to a bad start in Kannapolis), and Micah Schnurstein, there's no power.

After that, I'd say catcher is also an organizational problem.

Randar68
05-15-2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
I'd say power hitting. Nobody in AA is slugging over .500. Aside from Borchard, Andy Gonzalez (who's off to a bad start in Kannapolis), and Micah Schnurstein, there's no power.

After that, I'd say catcher is also an organizational problem.

The AA team this year has one of the worst lineups in Birmingham history. I don't think there is a single hitter on that team with Major league potential, and this is AA we're talking about.

Josh Schaffer has no buisiness being there.

southpaw40
05-15-2003, 02:52 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Randar68
[B]Morse is not a prospect.

Morse is a just-turned-21 year old playing in Hi A (Winston-Salem) and hitting .270. There has been some talk of moving him over to third because of his large size, but I have read that other scouts think he can play shortstop at the major league level. You could be right, but it might be too early to tell for sure.

Of course I'm sure there are players in the system now that are not too highly thought of who will take off and become major leaguers, just as some of the can't misses will indeed miss....

I think it's kinda hard to judge the Sox system this season....they seem to have taken a conservative approach in the placement of thier players.

soxrme
05-15-2003, 03:12 PM
I believe we need a major overhaul of our scouting. Our young prospects seem to be highly overrated. Our advance scouts, if we have them, do not have the other teams scouted as well as their scouts have us.

MisterB
05-15-2003, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by soxrme
I believe we need a major overhaul of our scouting. Our young prospects seem to be highly overrated.

Many Sox prospects have been rated highly by people outside our system, so I don't think our scouts 'overrate' our prospects. My theory is that our minor league instruction system needs an overhaul. The Sox have been producing a lower-than-average amount of servicable major league players, and a lot of fundementally unsound ones at that. I know a while back some media outlet (ESPN?) did a rundown of how many active major league players were products of which teams' systems, and the Sox were firmly in the low end of the list.