PDA

View Full Version : BA... with runners in scoring position? Anyone?


balz1472
05-14-2003, 01:41 PM
Last night as I watched the Sox piss down their legs again with runners in scoring position and less than 2 outs it made me wonder what the Sox were batting with runners in scoring position in general. I have looked a bit on the web with no luck.
(Can anyone help me out?)

It is really pathetic that we cannot get these runs in? I've seen little leaguers put in better attempts than our "PROFESSIONALS" have been.

boog_alou
05-14-2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by balz1472
Last night as I watched the Sox piss down their legs again with runners in scoring position and less than 2 outs it made me wonder what the Sox were batting with runners in scoring position in general. I have looked a bit on the web with no luck.
(Can anyone help me out?)

It is really pathetic that we cannot get these runs in? I've seen little leaguers put in better attempts than our "PROFESSIONALS" have been.

With Runners on
BA - .242
OPS - .729

With Runners in Scoring Position
BA - .234
OPS - .684

With Runners in Scoring Positiong, 2 out
BA - .244
OPS - .741

With Bases Loaded
BA - .297
OPS - .790

Except for the relatively few bases loaded situations, this is pretty brutal. A look at the RISP and RISP, 2 out shows that the team is hitting even worse with less than 2 out and RISP than with 2 out. Ugly.

MarkEdward
05-14-2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by balz1472
Last night as I watched the Sox piss down their legs again with runners in scoring position and less than 2 outs it made me wonder what the Sox were batting with runners in scoring position in general. I have looked a bit on the web with no luck.
(Can anyone help me out?)

It is really pathetic that we cannot get these runs in? I've seen little leaguers put in better attempts than our "PROFESSIONALS" have been.

I believe ESPN.com keeps RISP stats for individuals, but I don't know if they're kept as a team stat.

balz1472
05-14-2003, 01:54 PM
All right... I just happened to stumble upon my own solution:
(mlb.com) --> duh?

Look how pathetic this is...

Above .300 with RISP:
J Paul (1 for 1) 1.000
A Rios (6/17) .353
S Alomar (4/12) .333
T Graffanino (3/9) .333
C Lee (10/30) .333

Below... (NOTICE HOW MANY "REGULARS")
M Ordonez (14/49) .286
D Jimenez (4/16) .250
J Crede (7/29) .241
P Konerko (6/35) .171
J Valentine (4/24) .167
F Thomas (4/26) .154
B Daubauch (1/8) .125
A Rowand (1/10) .100
M Olivo (1/15) .067
W Harris (0/4) .000

ssang
05-14-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by balz1472
All right... I just happened to stumble upon my own solution:
(mlb.com) --> duh?

Look how pathetic this is...

Above .300 with RISP:
J Paul (1 for 1) 1.000
A Rios (6/17) .353
S Alomar (4/12) .333
T Graffanino (3/9) .333
C Lee (10/30) .333

Below... (NOTICE HOW MANY "REGULARS")
M Ordonez (14/49) .286
D Jimenez (4/16) .250
J Crede (7/29) .241
P Konerko (6/35) .171
J Valentine (4/24) .167
F Thomas (4/26) .154
B Daubauch (1/8) .125
A Rowand (1/10) .100
M Olivo (1/15) .067
W Harris (0/4) .000

I think that just by looking at those stats any grown man could literally cry. Ken Williams is driving this organization innto the ground (unless we were there already!) He needed to do something about our lineup whcih was full of un-clutch, slow, pull hitters. He didn't do anything.

Paulwny
05-14-2003, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
I believe ESPN.com keeps RISP stats for individuals, but I don't know if they're kept as a team stat.

Yahoo gives team risp stats, situational hitting


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byteam?cat=Situational&cut_type=39

Hangar18
05-14-2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by boog_alou
With Runners on
BA - .242
OPS - .729

With Runners in Scoring Position
BA - .234
OPS - .684

With Runners in Scoring Positiong, 2 out
BA - .244
OPS - .741

With Bases Loaded
BA - .297
OPS - .790

Except for the relatively few bases loaded situations, this is pretty brutal. A look at the RISP and RISP, 2 out shows that the team is hitting even worse with less than 2 out and RISP than with 2 out. Ugly.

MAN! this is Awful. I knew it was awful, but man, had no idea we were this bad. Teams that Rate like this DONT go to the playoffs

Paulwny
05-14-2003, 02:21 PM
Looking at the Yahoo RISP stats we're ahead of the Tigers and 4 nl teams where the pitchers have to bat, very sad.

Procol Harum
05-14-2003, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
MAN! this is Awful. I knew it was awful, but man, had no idea we were this bad. Teams that Rate like this DONT go to the playoffs

No kiddin'.... it only undergirds a lot of what a number of people around here have been saying for weeks about just how bad the situation really is. We're taking dead aim at somewhere between 75 and 85 wins and it's darned unlikely that if we were actually able to reach that upper limit that we would cut it even in this woeful division.

hold2dibber
05-14-2003, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by ssang
I think that just by looking at those stats any grown man could literally cry. Ken Williams is driving this organization innto the ground (unless we were there already!) He needed to do something about our lineup whcih was full of un-clutch, slow, pull hitters. He didn't do anything.

Man, talk about hindsight. The Sox were, I believe, third in the league in runs scored last year. I guarantee you that the same "un-clutch", slow, pull hitters you're moaning about had good RISP numbers last year. It's not KW's fault that those guys, who have produced in the past, have been pathetic this year. If Thomas, Konerko, Ordonez, Crede, etc. were hitting at their expected or career levels, the Sox would likely be 4 or 5 games over .500 right now and right in the mix of things. Although the buck ultimately stops with KW, I think slamming him for the crap production of guys who have produced relatively well in the past, is the worst kind of monday morning quarterbacking.

ssang
05-14-2003, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Man, talk about hindsight. The Sox were, I believe, third in the league in runs scored last year. I guarantee you that the same "un-clutch", slow, pull hitters you're moaning about had good RISP numbers last year. It's not KW's fault that those guys, who have produced in the past, have been pathetic this year. If Thomas, Konerko, Ordonez, Crede, etc. were hitting at their expected or career levels, the Sox would likely be 4 or 5 games over .500 right now and right in the mix of things. Although the buck ultimately stops with KW, I think slamming him for the crap production of guys who have produced relatively well in the past, is the worst kind of monday morning quarterbacking.

NOPE. I stand by my statement. I, for one, was never impressed with this offense. Since post-all-star break of 2000 I have been down on them. Yes, they put up some stats last year but they still were very unclutch. They never came back after being down and they didn't seem to ever get any timely hits. So I fault Williams for not doing anything with this lineup. He assumed they would keep getting better but none of them have progressed since 2000 (maube Maggs). In fact, most of them have only regressed since 2000. KW can do no right. He sucks and everyone knows it except for 2 people on the planet...KW and JR. Unfortunatley JR is the only one who matters when it comes to seeing KW's deficincies.

hold2dibber
05-14-2003, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by ssang
NOPE. I stand by my statement. I, for one, was never impressed with this offense. Since post-all-star break of 2000 I have been down on them. Yes, they put up some stats last year but they still were very unclutch. They never came back after being down and they didn't seem to ever get any timely hits. So I fault Williams for not doing anything with this lineup. He assumed they would keep getting better but none of them have progressed since 2000 (maube Maggs). In fact, most of them have only regressed since 2000. KW can do no right. He sucks and everyone knows it except for 2 people on the planet...KW and JR. Unfortunatley JR is the only one who matters when it comes to seeing KW's deficincies.

You're personally biased against KW. I agree that he has done more bad than good, but t osay he "can do no right" is absurd. Marte and Yan for Guerier? A bunch of spare parts for Colon? Olivo for Bradford? Signing Loaiza? The Lofton trade? At least give him credit when he deserves it, or your criticism lacks credibility.

As for their line-up being "unclutch" last year, here are the '02 RISP numbers for this year's expected starters:

Maggs: .317 BA, 1.008 OPS
Konerko: .303 BA, .837 OPS
Thomas: .268 BA, .907 OPS
Lee: .271 BA, .893 OPS
Valentin: .351 BA, 1.086 OPS (!)
Crede: .279 BA, .793 OPS
Jimenez: .333 BA, .889 OPS
Rowand: .295 BA, .743 OPS
Alomar: .267, .663 OPS

I feel pretty confident that you're not going to find more than a few line-ups in all of baseball with better numbers. Although the team was subject to lapsing into the "corpse ball" mode on occassion, they clearly had a pretty good offense, and pretty good clutch hitting overall.

Also, they were 3rd in the league in runs, 4th in OPS, 2nd in RBIs, 3rd in HRs.

If you thought the line-up was the problem coming into this season, you likely didn't have a lot of company in that department. I don't think its fair to criticize KW too much for the way the line-up is constituted. I agree they could use someone with some wheels, and I agree they could use a left handed stick. But going into the season, those concerns were just "fine tuning" issues -- there was little reason to think that this offense wouldn't be better than average (and certainly no reason to think they'd be HORRIBLE, as they've been so far). Right now there is not a single hitter on the Sox (with the possible exceptions of Jimenez and Valentin) who are hitting as much as we (and KW) have a right to expect them to hit. This tells me two things: (1) it's not really KW's fault; and (2) the offense will improve as the season wears on (I just hope the pitching continues to be adequate and no one else runs away from us in the interim).