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View Full Version : Watched Baseball Tonite Monday....


Hangar18
05-12-2003, 11:10 PM
Caught the end of the show, didnt talk much about the SOX, except to rip into Frank Thomas. They did it in a nice way, but put a nice graphic oh him up there, along with his quote from yesterday, which he said he was "tired of the bs, hes not looking in the mirror, reason hes hitting .240 is because hes not getting anything to hit, its all inside" He is right about that. Hes been getting nothing to hit. These pitchers Fear him for some odd reason, when they probably shouldnt. But ALL OF THE ANNOUNCERS, Harold Reynolds, Bobby Valentine esp, Ripped on him for not "dealing" with it. They bring up a good point, though I could tell they just want to rip on him. They compared him to Nick Johnson of the Yanks, who they said was also having trouble wth the Inside Pitch (hear that Sox pitching staff? make a note)
but hes able to hit with some Power. Made me think of something. they showed some of his hits from the 2 hole (JM, hear that) and HE NEEDS TO OPEN HIS STANCE UP, to counter the INSIDE PITCH.

Daver
05-12-2003, 11:13 PM
Harold Reynolds and Bobby Valentine work for ESPN because no one in their right mind would hire either one of them as a hitting coach.


Take it for what it is worth.

SoxxoS
05-13-2003, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Caught the end of the show, didnt talk much about the SOX, except to rip into Frank Thomas. They did it in a nice way, but put a nice graphic oh him up there, along with his quote from yesterday, which he said he was "tired of the bs, hes not looking in the mirror, reason hes hitting .240 is because hes not getting anything to hit, its all inside" He is right about that. Hes been getting nothing to hit. These pitchers Fear him for some odd reason, when they probably shouldnt. But ALL OF THE ANNOUNCERS, Harold Reynolds, Bobby Valentine esp, Ripped on him for not "dealing" with it. They bring up a good point, though I could tell they just want to rip on him. They compared him to Nick Johnson of the Yanks, who they said was also having trouble wth the Inside Pitch (hear that Sox pitching staff? make a note)
but hes able to hit with some Power. Made me think of something. they showed some of his hits from the 2 hole (JM, hear that) and HE NEEDS TO OPEN HIS STANCE UP, to counter the INSIDE PITCH.

I've wrote about how I have no idea why Frank doesn't go back to the stance that made him 2nd in MVP voting in the 2000 season, the open one. That stance helps hitters get on the inside fastball. If it wasn't broke, why fix it. This isn't rocket science. It's baseball. A simple game. You wouldn't think that with the player/coaches we have in this organization, though.

RKMeibalane
05-13-2003, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by daver
Harold Reynolds and Bobby Valentine work for ESPN because no one in their right mind would hire either one of them as a hitting coach.


Take it for what it is worth.

Well said. Harold Reynolds was a terrible hitter throughout his Major League career, and Bobby Valentin is only on the show because the Mets fired him, and he was unable to find another job. The sad thing is, the general public probably soaked in every single word of that garbage.

Nellie_Fox
05-13-2003, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I've wrote about how I have no idea why Frank doesn't go back to the stance that made him 2nd in MVP voting in the 2000 season, the open one. That stance helps hitters get on the inside fastball. If it wasn't broke, why fix it. This isn't rocket science. It's baseball. A simple game. You wouldn't think that with the player/coaches we have in this organization, though. Gee, I'm surprised that MLB teams aren't beating a path to your door, since you know more about hitting than a two-time MVP.

A simple game? If it were simple, everyone would hit .400. Hell, why stop at .400? Simple? So then I guess you can hit major league pitching? The basic concept of the game is simple; executing it is anything but.

There's more to hitting than the stance. Frank knows he's dropping his back shoulder, thus the popups, but knowing it and doing something about it are two different things. It has to be instinctive. If you're thinking about your back shoulder, you can't react to the pitch. As Yogi said, "I can't think and hit at the same time."

Chisoxfn
05-13-2003, 02:19 AM
Agreed. The only way to fix flaws in your swing are to find them on tape and then work work and work in the cages on correcting the problem. Correcting something you've been doing wrong is a hard thing to do.

In golf you can correct something and slow your swing down and hit the golf ball fine, in baseball if you did that, the ball would already be in the catchers mit. You don't even have a split second to think about your shoulder, etc, hitters have enough trouble simply locating the ball and what type of pitch it is and whether to swing or not, to pull it or go oppo field, etc.

Its all an instinctual thing learned from repitition. To fix something you have to repeat it until it finally becomes natural. In the case of Frank he's doing a whole lot wrong, but at least the approach is there. His bat speed is definately down though, but part of me thinks its because of a lack of agression.

In regards to the inside pitch, Frank should stand off the plate a bit more, thus targeting pitchers to throw to the outside, which will end up leading them into throwing into a strength. If they go inside, then the pitch will be less in (Because he's away from the plate) meaning the pitch would be much more hittable.

Trust me though, if it were that simple, I think Frank would of done it a long time ago. Its not just one thing with Frank, I don't have enough film to compare, but even then I can't say I'd be able to do a good job. I've noticed him pulling a lot of outside pitches and thats definately one of his problems as well.

The thing is, like it is with most hitters in a slump, it isn't just one thing, its a mix of things.

Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Gee, I'm surprised that MLB teams aren't beating a path to your door, since you know more about hitting than a two-time MVP.

A simple game? If it were simple, everyone would hit .400. Hell, why stop at .400? Simple? So then I guess you can hit major league pitching? The basic concept of the game is simple; executing it is anything but.

There's more to hitting than the stance. Frank knows he's dropping his back shoulder, thus the popups, but knowing it and doing something about it are two different things. It has to be instinctive. If you're thinking about your back shoulder, you can't react to the pitch. As Yogi said, "I can't think and hit at the same time."

ssang
05-13-2003, 08:22 AM
Has it ever occurred to anyone that just maybe Frank is simply OVER-THE-HILL?? He is not getting any better and he will continue to decline. Some players just lose their juice eralier than others and Frank seems to be an early burn out. He just doesn't have the same tools as he once did. Now his piss-poor attitude.....well, that's a whole new issue!

ma-gaga
05-13-2003, 09:35 AM
I saw the quote, and the reaction of the BB crew, but...

Isn't it Frank's job to adjust to what the pitchers are throwing him? If I was a pitcher, and I knew that Frank didn't like pitches high and tight, guess where all my pitches are going to be?

This is simple, if Frank wants to hit more, he needs to adjust. But his OBP is 0.415!!! That's fantastic. If people here are bitching about Frank ONLY hitting 0.240, tell them to go jump in a lake or the Chicago equivalent of that. Better yet, explain in simple terms the power of OBP/OPS. Some idiots think that BA is the end all be all stat. I see it everywhere, and it's frustrating.

:D:

MHOUSE
05-13-2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by ma-gaga
I saw the quote, and the reaction of the BB crew, but...

Isn't it Frank's job to adjust to what the pitchers are throwing him? If I was a pitcher, and I knew that Frank didn't like pitches high and tight, guess where all my pitches are going to be?

This is simple, if Frank wants to hit more, he needs to adjust. But his OBP is 0.415!!! That's fantastic. If people here are bitching about Frank ONLY hitting 0.240, tell them to go jump in a lake or the Chicago equivalent of that. Better yet, explain in simple terms the power of OBP/OPS. Some idiots think that BA is the end all be all stat. I see it everywhere, and it's frustrating.

:D:

exactly. he's whining instead of fixing it. that's what upsets me more than the fact that he's talking.

Nellie_Fox
05-14-2003, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by ma-gaga
If I was a pitcher, and I knew that Frank didn't like pitches high and tight, guess where all my pitches are going to be? Maybe he should take the Barry Bonds approach: Put on more armor than a medeival knight, crowd even closer to the plate, and every time a pitcher even hits the black on the inside corner, glare out at the mound and threaten to come out. Intimidate the pitchers into being afraid to come inside.

You've got the umpires on your side nowdays, and Frank is a huge man. If he got nasty with the pitchers, I'll bet he could intimidate most of them.

WhiteSox = Life
05-14-2003, 01:43 AM
Speaking of Baseball Tonight...

The only play they showed on BBTN Tuesday was the play where Hairston, the second baseman, went back for the popup that was hit in the 8th inning by El Tornado.

They showed Frank sliding in on a close play at second. Valentine said that regardless of the call, Frank should've been in there standing at second.

Right.

And, if Frank goes to second immediately and gets doubled off, Valentine says that Frank should've stayed back to avoid the double play.

Would somebody please tell Bobby Valentine he's a moron?

AngelLeroy
05-14-2003, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
Speaking of Baseball Tonight...

The only play they showed on BBTN Tuesday was the play where Hairston, the second baseman, went back for the popup that was hit in the 8th inning by El Tornado.

They showed Frank sliding in on a close play at second. Valentine said that regardless of the call, Frank should've been in there standing at second.

Right.

And, if Frank goes to second immediately and gets doubled off, Valentine says that Frank should've stayed back to avoid the double play.

Would somebody please tell Bobby Valentine he's a moron?

So WHY do people want this guy to be the manager of the Sox? What a moron!

SoxxoS
05-14-2003, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Gee, I'm surprised that MLB teams aren't beating a path to your door, since you know more about hitting than a two-time MVP.

A simple game? If it were simple, everyone would hit .400. Hell, why stop at .400? Simple? So then I guess you can hit major league pitching? The basic concept of the game is simple; executing it is anything but.

There's more to hitting than the stance. Frank knows he's dropping his back shoulder, thus the popups, but knowing it and doing something about it are two different things. It has to be instinctive. If you're thinking about your back shoulder, you can't react to the pitch. As Yogi said, "I can't think and hit at the same time."

Oh, spare me. Sometimes talent level can overcome mental ability, which is obviously what happened to Frank. Just because somebody is a hall of fame hitter doesn't make them a great hitting coach, or a great hitting mind. My golf teacher probably would shoot 100 if we played tomorrow, yet he has me shooting in the 70s.

Moreover, I am not the one getting 8 million plus to hit the ball. (Golf is my game, anyway) Baseball is a simple game. Whether or not we are talking about executing or concept, it is simple. Put the bat on the ball. There are a lot of varibles, but its a simple game. It's the mental approach that makes it hard, granted. But changing stances every other plate appearance has a direct effect on your mental approach.

Obviously, this "2 time MVP" resume hasn't been helping him since 2000.

Chisox-On the golf comment "you can just slow your swing down and hit the ball fine"-if only it were that easy...

Nellie_Fox
05-14-2003, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Baseball is a simple game. Whether or not we are talking about executing or concept, it is simple. Put the bat on the ball. I'm sorry, but if you really believe this, you're an idiot.

The concept of "put the bat on the ball" is simple. The execution is damnably hard.

You really think that something as simple as changing a batting stance is the whole problem? And you think that you have picked up on this, but everyone who has been working with Frank hasn't thought of it? As you said, spare me.

SoxxoS
05-14-2003, 09:01 PM
As for the baseball is a simple game, it still is. However, I should have said concept was easy, and not execution, but wasn't thinking.

Reread my post and tell me where I said the "stance was the whole problem."

I'm sure somebody has picked up on the stance thing, but maybe Frank didn't listen. Frank is stubborn as most of us know, so I wouldn't put it past him.

Once again, a guy who has never played the game before can be more knowlegable on a subject than someone who is a two time MVP. I am not saying I am, though.

basilesox
05-15-2003, 02:44 AM
Originally posted by daver
Harold Reynolds and Bobby Valentine work for ESPN because no one in their right mind would hire either one of them as a hitting coach.


Take it for what it is worth.

And Sadly they probably make ten times the money that a hitting coach makes

basilesox
05-15-2003, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by AngelLeroy
So WHY do people want this guy to be the manager of the Sox? What a moron!

I wouldnt exactly call Valentin a Moron, He did take a very average team to the World Series a couple of years ago. Being a good commentator on Baseball Tonight has nothing to do with someone being a good manager.

doublem23
05-15-2003, 03:05 AM
Baseball Tonight... Good for watching highlights and getting a late-night jolt of baseball... Bad for any sort of "analysis".

Rocklive99
05-15-2003, 07:29 PM
Also, on Sportscenter, they did this Pretender/Contender thing where someone asked Gammons if he thought some active players were pretenders or contenders for the hall of fame. Frank was on the list, and of course Gammons said pretender, they showed that people voted online, and they also said pretender. :(:

Blueprint1
05-15-2003, 07:47 PM
yeah and Griffey Jr was a contender. Whats up with that he has not played in like three years.