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View Full Version : Thomas getting ripped -- of course...


Kilroy
05-12-2003, 03:06 PM
Thomas is taking plenty of heat for his comment about not needing to keep looking in the mirror, but I wonder...

Why is it not ok for Thomas to say that but it's ok for Manuel to start pointing the finger at the players? That's what he's doing by saying they need to look in the mirror. Hey JM! Any mirrors at your place?

MHOUSE
05-12-2003, 03:38 PM
Frank has been whining and complaining about the umpires. I know he's had a couple of close calls not go his way, but calling them out will only make it worse. How stupid is this guy? He looked totally lost facing Moyer and that had nothing to do with the umps. I know he was the man in the 90s but other than 2000, the last 3 years have been squat. He's done.

Kilroy
05-12-2003, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
...I know he was the man in the 90s but other than 2000, the
last 3 years have been squat. He's done.

If he's done, then the Sox are in trouble because he's leading the team or near the top on the team in many of the major offensive categories.

MHOUSE
05-12-2003, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
If he's done, then the Sox are in trouble because he's leading the team or near the top on the team in many of the major offensive categories.

Not average, RBIs, homeruns, what then?

Juan Pizarro
05-12-2003, 04:30 PM
Unnamed scouts are being quoted that Thomas's bat is so slow he couldn't hit an inside fastball if you told him it was coming.

LuvSox
05-12-2003, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by Juan Pizarro
Unnamed scouts are being quoted that Thomas's bat is so slow he couldn't hit an inside fastball if you told him it was coming.

What do you think the problem is, age?

MHOUSE
05-12-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
What do you think the problem is, age?

Age, 2001 injury, lack of fitness, bad hitting coach, whining and complaining instead of working, there's so many reasons. The bottom like is that he's not the 2000 and before Frank Thomas. He's not going to be that good again I don't think and this is the beginning of the end.

joecrede
05-12-2003, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
What do you think the problem is, age?

Expectations.

He wasn't supposed to be the best offensive player on the team this year. He's 34 coming off a mediocre season. Thomas is one of the last guy's who should be getting criticized.

joecrede
05-12-2003, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Age, 2001 injury, lack of fitness, bad hitting coach, whining and complaining instead of working, there's so many reasons. The bottom like is that he's not the 2000 and before Frank Thomas. He's not going to be that good again I don't think and this is the beginning of the end.

Konerko's problem, I think, is he doesn't care since signing that big contract over the winter. Agree?

Dadawg_77
05-12-2003, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Konerko's problem, I think, is he doesn't care since signing that big contract over the winter. Agree?

No Konerko was never good enough to warrant the contract he singed. Konerko is a good solid player but not worth the 8 million + he got. I would have rather kept Ray for the money.

WhiteSox = Life
05-12-2003, 06:10 PM
I don't expect .330/40/140 seasons from Frank anymore, but he's still doing a solid job at the plate. If he could lessen the popups and start hitting line drives, he could help jumpstart the offense... Well, probably not, but you never know.

I found something interesting with this quote by Thomas:

"I'm not going to sit there and tell myself to keep looking in the mirror."

Clearly, he's sending some sort of message. He's not happy, the team's not happy, Jerry M. is all smiles though :angry: and every single Chicago White Sox fan is not happy.

I think this is one of the significant times where Frank has come out, made a statement to the public without shooting himself in the foot (although all the Chicago media will try to make it look that way) and said something exactly like a leader should say.

I am not advocating Frank is the leader, but, besides Josť, who hasn't been talking much lately, who has been leading the White Sox?

You can take Thomas' quote as a whine... Or, you can take it as some sort last-ditch rallying call. (I hate to call a quote on May 12th be a "last-ditch rallying call," but it sure seems like it is.)

I only hope that the rest of the White Sox players take Frank's words to heart and, tired of all this incessant BS surrounding KW, Jerry M. and pretty much every member on the team, go and make something out of this season.

That is all.

jeremyb1
05-12-2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by Juan Pizarro
Unnamed scouts are being quoted that Thomas's bat is so slow he couldn't hit an inside fastball if you told him it was coming.

or more accurately AN unnamed scout, correct?

PaleHoseGeorge
05-12-2003, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Age, 2001 injury, lack of fitness, bad hitting coach, whining and complaining instead of working, there's so many reasons. The bottom like is that he's not the 2000 and before Frank Thomas. He's not going to be that good again I don't think and this is the beginning of the end.

Okay, so if I'm following you correctly, we're supposed to be pissed off at Frank Thomas unless he is putting up numbers good enough to be within the reach of Jason Giambi's firstbasemen's glove of receiving the league's Most Valuable Player Award?

Here's betting neither Ordonez or Konerko come even close to such an achievement in their entire careers--assuming either of them have anything left. I'm beginning to have my doubts...

MHOUSE
05-12-2003, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
I found something interesting with this quote by Thomas:

"I'm not going to sit there and tell myself to keep looking in the mirror."

Clearly, he's sending some sort of message. He's not happy, the team's not happy, Jerry M. is all smiles though :angry: and every single Chicago White Sox fan is not happy.

I think this is one of the significant times where Frank has come out, made a statement to the public without shooting himself in the foot (although all the Chicago media will try to make it look that way) and said something exactly like a leader should say.

I am not advocating Frank is the leader, but, besides Josť, who hasn't been talking much lately, who has been leading the White Sox?

You can take Thomas' quote as a whine... Or, you can take it as some sort last-ditch rallying call. (I hate to call a quote on May 12th be a "last-ditch rallying call," but it sure seems like it is.)

I only hope that the rest of the White Sox players take Frank's words to heart and, tired of all this incessant BS surrounding KW, Jerry M. and pretty much every member on the team, go and make something out of this season.

That is all.

That was a ridiculous comment by Frank. Jerry asked the players to take a look at themselves and perhaps take some blame (away from him?) for the team's struggles. Then Frank complains that he's not going to look at himself. You're batting .243 as our #3 guy and not producing enough. He's shifting blame elsewhere and refusing to take any on himself. Not leadership quality at all.

MarkEdward
05-12-2003, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Not average, RBIs, homeruns, what then?

Well, he is second on the team in OPS, first in OBP, and fourth in slugging. I'd always take a players with a high OBP and slugging % over a player with high batting average and RBI numbers.

RKMeibalane
05-12-2003, 07:09 PM
Frank has done a solid job so far. The Chicago media is once again doing all they can to make him look bad, but I for one am pleased with the way he's handled himself. Frank was just being honest when he made that comment. I'm sure there are several other players who are feeling the same way, but are afraid to come out and say it. I'm hoping that Frank refers to Manuel as "The Tinkerer," so that we will know he has been to this site.

FanOf14
05-12-2003, 07:46 PM
Thomas isn't our only problem. No one in our "potent" offense is swinging, that, in my honest opinion means that our hitting coach isn't worth squat. Get rid of him and get a capable hitting coach in there and I think many of our guys come out of their funk.

i_luv_jgarland
05-12-2003, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
That was a ridiculous comment by Frank.

It seems like the entire team is making ridiculous comments to the media. Maybe they should all just shut up and play ball.

Kilroy
05-12-2003, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Well, he is second on the team in OPS, first in OBP, and fourth in slugging. I'd always take a players with a high OBP and slugging % over a player with high batting average and RBI numbers.

Add that he's leading the team in bases on balls, and tied for the lead in home runs, 2nd in runs scored. Of course, no one really looks past the .243 even tho it is not the truest indication of how a player is doing at the plate.

RKMeibalane
05-12-2003, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Add that he's leading the team in bases on balls, and tied for the lead in home runs, 2nd in runs scored. Of course, no one really looks past the .243 even tho it is not the truest indication of how a player is doing at the plate.

Agreed. I think people place too much stock in one statistical category instead of looking at the big picture. Frank's average is not what he hoped it would be when the season began, but I think it's safe to say that he has been more successful this season than he was last year.

In many of his at-bats, it seems as though he's hitting the ball hard, but he's hitting it right at people. We are still early enough in the season that a player's batting average can be affected by a few bad at bats. Frank's average could easily be above .270 if some of his lineouts had been hits.

Nellie_Fox
05-13-2003, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by i_luv_jgarland
It seems like the entire team is making ridiculous comments to the media. Maybe they should all just shut up and play ball. Okay, so you're the most visible player on a team that is in a tailspin. The media jackals (Copyright: Jesse Ventura) come around your locker saying "the manager says you guys should look in the mirror. Do you think you need to look in the mirror Frank?" What do you do?

If, as suggested above, you just "shut up," the report in the paper will be "Thomas sulking, refusing to talk to the press." You say what you believe, and the report is "Thomas whining." You agree with the manager, and the report is "Thomas admits he is not doing his job."

The Chicago press seems to need to make sure there is only one loved and admired baseball superstar in Chicago, and they've decided that Frank cannot be that one. No matter what he does, they'll make sure it comes out looking bad.

Chisoxfn
05-13-2003, 01:13 AM
Why doesn't he say the record should indicate what were doing and that he feels the talent is there.

Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Okay, so you're the most visible player on a team that is in a tailspin. The media jackals (Copyright: Jesse Ventura) come around your locker saying "the manager says you guys should look in the mirror. Do you think you need to look in the mirror Frank?" What do you do?

If, as suggested above, you just "shut up," the report in the paper will be "Thomas sulking, refusing to talk to the press." You say what you believe, and the report is "Thomas whining." You agree with the manager, and the report is "Thomas admits he is not doing his job."

The Chicago press seems to need to make sure there is only one loved and admired baseball superstar in Chicago, and they've decided that Frank cannot be that one. No matter what he does, they'll make sure it comes out looking bad.

TommyJohn
05-13-2003, 03:29 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Okay, so you're the most visible player on a team that is in a tailspin. The media jackals (Copyright: Jesse Ventura) come around your locker saying "the manager says you guys should look in the mirror. Do you think you need to look in the mirror Frank?" What do you do?

If, as suggested above, you just "shut up," the report in the paper will be "Thomas sulking, refusing to talk to the press." You say what you believe, and the report is "Thomas whining." You agree with the manager, and the report is "Thomas admits he is not doing his job."

The Chicago press seems to need to make sure there is only one loved and admired baseball superstar in Chicago, and they've decided that Frank cannot be that one. No matter what he does, they'll make sure it comes out looking bad.

:moron

Thanks, Nellie! I couldn't have thought of a better job description
for myself! Except for maybe "Greatest Sports Journalist in His-
tory and official Sammy Sosa Hagiographer."

Kilroy
05-13-2003, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
Why doesn't he say the record should indicate what were doing and that he feels the talent is there.

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter what Thomas would have said, it would be somehow misconstrued into a negative. Chicago media isn't happy unless they are hating Frank while at the same time they have their lips firmly planted on Sosa's ass.

Bobby Thigpen
05-13-2003, 08:31 AM
Well, he is second on the team in OPS, first in OBP, and fourth in slugging. I'd always take a players with a high OBP and slugging % over a player with high batting average and RBI numbers.

Add that he's leading the team in bases on balls, and tied for the lead in home runs, 2nd in runs scored.


On this team that's a distinction sort of like being the tallest midget in the room. Sure you're taller than the rest of them, but to the rest of the world you're still a midget.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-13-2003, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by Bobby Thigpen
On this team that's a distinction sort of like being the tallest midget in the room. Sure you're taller than the rest of them, but to the rest of the world you're still a midget.

Fine. The title of this thread OUGHT to be "Konerko and Maggs getting ripped again." Aren't they the ones who are getting paid the most money on the team? Aren't they the ones who are sucking at an unbelievable rate?

Why should the tallest midget get ripped? It seems to me the shortest ones with the fattest salaries ought to be the ones asked the toughest questions, don't you think?

Bobby Thigpen
05-13-2003, 08:53 AM
Fine. The title of this thread OUGHT to be "Konerko and Maggs getting ripped again." Aren't they the ones who are getting paid the most money on the team? Aren't they the ones who are sucking at an unbelievable rate?

Because they at least have enough intelligence to shut their mouths when they suck. Historically it is exactly the opposite with Frank. The only time you hear from him is when he sucks. He never takes responsibility for anything, cares very little about anything other than his stats, and this quote distills it perfectly for the media and everyone else to see.

I wasn't attacking Frank with that I was simply trying to add some humor to the morgue that has become WSI. But given the oppurtunity it has been nice to attack him.

MHOUSE
05-13-2003, 09:01 AM
What I read in the Tribune today (Tuesday) was worse than what had been said before. He was basically telling Manuel to shut up and that he's not to blame. It really sounds like Manuel tried to yell at the team, but just succeeded in making Frank mad and now their going at one another. KW is trying to be peacekeeper? Please. The clubhouse situation is deteriorating.

Kilroy
05-13-2003, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
What I read in the Tribune today (Tuesday) was worse than what had been said before. He was basically telling Manuel to shut up and that he's not to blame. It really sounds like Manuel tried to yell at the team, but just succeeded in making Frank mad and now their going at one another. KW is trying to be peacekeeper? Please. The clubhouse situation is deteriorating.

You need some pliers to get that fish-hook out of your mouth?

The quotes are all the same ones that were in yesterday's paper. They just put a new spin on it to pit Thomas vs. Manuel...

Dan H
05-13-2003, 10:21 AM
When Manuel said players should look in the mirror, did he look at Thomas when he said that? Did pick out Thomas and say Thomas was the only problem? I didn't read that in the quote, maybe Thomas read into himself. I think his reaction is an overreaction and I think his fans are overreacting as well.

There are very few Sox players who can hold their head up now. They all should look in the mirror and this includes Frank Thomas. It is no longer early. It is time to turn it around.

Kilroy
05-13-2003, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by Dan H
When Manuel said players should look in the mirror, did he look at Thomas when he said that? Did pick out Thomas and say Thomas was the only problem? I didn't read that in the quote, maybe Thomas read into himself. I think his reaction is an overreaction and I think his fans are overreacting as well.

There are very few Sox players who can hold their head up now. They all should look in the mirror and this includes Frank Thomas. It is no longer early. It is time to turn it around.

Come on, man. Use your head. Do you think Frank was there when Jerry said it? No. So what happened? Reporters scurry like little cock-roaches from Manuel to Thomas and say "Jerry says you gotta look in the mirror to solve hitting problems, what do you say?"

Something gets lost (or added) in the translation.

RKMeibalane
05-13-2003, 11:35 AM
The Chicago media makes me sick. Anything and everything they print about the Chicago White Sox is somehow twisted or manipulated in such a way as to portray the Sox as a collection of scumbags.

Manuel just needs to shut his mouth. Frank wouldn't have made those comments if Manuel hadn't spoken up first. Besides, it is Manuel who fills out the lineup card every day. If he's not happy with the production he's getting from Thomas, Ordonez, and Konerko, then it is within his power to bench them. Otherwise, he should keep quiet and let his players do their jobs. By the way, he needs to stop "tinkering" with the lineup. That, more than anything else, is the reason for all of these problems.

ma-gaga
05-13-2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
The Chicago media makes me sick. Anything and everything they print about the Chicago White Sox is somehow twisted or manipulated in such a way as to portray the Sox as a collection of scumbags.

Yeah, but Frank hasn't helped his own case any. He needs to get a new marketer. Maybe add a spin move to his homerun trot. Carry out the flag when he sprints to his DH spot on the field. Make sure he hugs and kisses all children and always thanks his mother.

hmm.

When other teams stick their feet in their mouth, they are usually able to weasel out of it, or clarify it, or laugh it off or something. I find it hard to believe that Frank cannot do this. I mean, there's probably 50 journalists that Thomas deals with on a year to year basis. Has he managed to piss off the entire collection of "media jackals" to the point that it's a better "story" to have him surly and complaining?

Just don't trust the media. The truth is, Frank is right. And the Twins ARE a big group of loud mouth *****-footed overhyped trashtalking idiots with no talent...