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View Full Version : Costly Sox Management Decisions


Mammoo
05-05-2003, 11:33 AM
In no particular order:

Eddie Einhorn's Sportsvision (pay TV)

Dissing the Bill Veeck Regime

Totally disrespecting Carlton Fisk (cutting him on the road)

Dumping Harry Caray

The Hawk Harrelson as GM experiment

Holding the State of Illinois hostage by threatening to move to Florida.

Tearing Down Comiskey

The Terry Bevington experiment

Changing the Comiskey name

I'm sure there are more. Bone head maneuvers such as these erode fan base and contributed to the Cubs' solid hold on Chicago.

Hangar18
05-05-2003, 12:05 PM
You forgot Mgmts Leading of the Strike in 1994, Martyring his own team, and Costing us the best chance in 50 years of a World Series appearance/win.

Hangar18
05-05-2003, 12:11 PM
OOHHH! heres another HUGE costly Management Mistake. Ignoring the pleas of architectural firm HOK (as soon as gag order expires in a few years, this will all come out) to build something more Old-Fashioned, something more Artictecturally significant, something harkening back to the History this team had, with its Old Comiskey and big city charm. But something that was "OLD FASHIONED" was peddled to us, only to fall on deaf and short-sighted ears.

voodoochile
05-05-2003, 12:20 PM
The White Flag Trade certainly didn't help...

BTW, they didn't fire Harry Carry, he quit over the Pay TV experiment.

Mammoo
05-05-2003, 12:29 PM
Letting Harry Caray go was a mistake of biblical proportions, especially in light of the fact that he is totally and completely associated with the Cubs even though his best Chicago work was done as White Sox announcer!

LuvSox
05-05-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Mammoo


Totally disrespecting Carlton Fisk (cutting him on the road)

The Hawk Harrelson as GM experiment

Tearing Down Comiskey


The Fisk incident was the closest I have ever come to leaving this team behind.


Hawk as anything is bad.


I am a bigger fan of Sox history than most people, so don't get me wrong. I miss Comiskey Park. But many of the players will agree that it was falling apart. If you get a chance, ask Bill Melton. He's said before that it was time for a new place, it was in terrible shape. Yes, the new park sucked for many years, but now it is beautiful. I too wish it faced north with the skyline in view, if not at an altogether different location (lakeshore.) Never forget the get times you had at the old place, but embrace the new park, make it your own. I now have 12 years of solid memories at the Cell (except playing those damn Blue Jays in the early 90's, they always killed our Sox.)

Mammoo
05-05-2003, 12:54 PM
I have no reason to doubt you or Melton about Old Comiskey. It is well documented that the miserly Old Roman spent diddly squat on preventative maintenance. This, I'm sure contributed mightily to the "Old Girl's" demise.

In retrospect, perhaps it would have been better to refurbish the place.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/OldComiskey/50smaingate.jpg

Dan H
05-05-2003, 12:57 PM
As big a Reinsdorf critic that I am, I don't think he is the only owner who has contributed to the current sad state of the White Sox. The last three years under Bill Veeck in the late '70's were awful.

Arthur and John Allyn never had a clue on how to field or market a team. All of this incompetence has taken it tool on the franchise.

But now Jerry Reinsdorf has to wake up. He can't just wait and hope this team turns it around in 2003. He has to take some action to demonstrate that he is serious about putting a championship team on the field. Firing Jerry Manuel would be a good start.

Hullett_Fan
05-05-2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
OOHHH! heres another HUGE costly Management Mistake. Ignoring the pleas of architectural firm HOK (as soon as gag order expires in a few years, this will all come out) to build something more Old-Fashioned, something more Artictecturally significant, something harkening back to the History this team had, with its Old Comiskey and big city charm. But something that was "OLD FASHIONED" was peddled to us, only to fall on deaf and short-sighted ears.

Definitely! This was the nail in the coffin. The 'Cell' is still sterile and bland, even with the refurbishing this off-season.

Also would've been a good idea to build it in the South Loop and develop a neighborhood around it. That's still a decade or two away from happening near 35th.

Hangar18
05-05-2003, 01:13 PM
Mammoo, thats a Great Picture you posted there, of Comiskey sometime in the 50's it looks like. Can you imagine if THEYD have listened to HOK, and built something with a FACADE, in RED BRICK like in that Picture, and Built something that RESEMBLED VERY CLOSELY, a 1950's Comiskey? How BEAUTIFUL WOULD THAT HAVE LOOKED??? How Beautiful would that Stadium have been Called by the Evil Cub Loving Media? Comiskey when it was built, was Known as the "Baseball Palace of the World". There should have been NO REASON a 2nd And even MORE BEAUTIFUL PALACE OF THE WORLD shouldve been built. In a City that Prides itself on its Architecture, that shouldve been the FIRST ASPECT INCORPORATED INTO THIS PARK. The Sox wouldve FORCED the Medias Hand by building an Equally as "beautiful", equally as "historic", with just as much charm and better fans filling it, Stadium in Chicago?? Instead, they were shortsighted and greedy and let MONEY instead of Architectural Significance dictate the design of the stadium.
I could cry at what we almost had. ahhhh, what could have been ........

Mammoo
05-05-2003, 03:26 PM
You're right, Dan!

Just as Comiskey Park was ignored by the Old Roman, The White Sox image was tarnished by mismanagement from various regimes. This kind of incompetence builds over time and now the "chickens are coming home to roost".

Younger fans here should know, if they don't already that the Cubs didn't always have a stranglehold on the affections of baseball fans. While the Sox were playing excellent baseball in the fifties and sixties, the Cubs were haplessly bumbling along and it showed in the attendance figures.

C:\Stuff\Articles\Cubs-Sox Attendance Comparison.htm

Hangar18
05-05-2003, 03:35 PM
Mammoo, those stats are definitely the "smoking gun" the Cubs, the Trib, MLB, and the Chicago Media DO NOT WANT PUBLICIZED.
I would be Very Careful, though, if anything Fishy should happen, we know where to cast first blame on. Heh Heh. I hate the Chicago Media. Those are Very Very Telling Numbers. heck, I remember "discussing" with a cub fan at wrigley once those same numbers. He swore the Cubs have "Always" had better attendance than the sox, dating back to the 1900's. of course, his cub universe begins only in 1984, when harry caray first decided to get behind the microphone and take up broadcasting......

Nellie_Fox
05-05-2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Mammoo, thats a Great Picture you posted there, of Comiskey sometime in the 50's it looks like. Can you imagine if THEYD have listened to HOK, and built something with a FACADE, in RED BRICK like in that Picture, and Built something that RESEMBLED VERY CLOSELY, a 1950's Comiskey? How BEAUTIFUL WOULD THAT HAVE LOOKED??? Actually, that's not a color photograph. That's a tinted b&w photo, and the real bricks were nowhere near that intense in color (I've got one of the bricks at home.) They were a sandy color, very similar to the color of the concrete facade on the new park. In fact, they tried to simulate the color of the actual (non-whitewashed) bricks as closely as they could.

Old Comiskey was beyond repair. Ownership (the Allyns and Veeck too, not just Comiskey) substituted a coat of paint for any real maintenance until it was too far gone.

Refurbishing wasn't an option, because they had nowhere to play for the time it would have taken. The Yankees were able to play a year at Shea while Yankee Stadium was refurbished because Shea is publicly owned. Do you think the Cubs would have let the Sox play at Wrigley for a year? I don't.

Dan H
05-05-2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Mammoo
You're right, Dan!

Just as Comiskey Park was ignored by the Old Roman, The White Sox image was tarnished by mismanagement from various regimes. This kind of incompetence builds over time and now the "chickens are coming home to roost".

Younger fans here should know, if they don't already that the Cubs didn't always have a stranglehold on the affections of baseball fans. While the Sox were playing excellent baseball in the fifties and sixties, the Cubs were haplessly bumbling along and it showed in the attendance figures.

I think a real turning point came in 1967. The Cubs finally had a good year and they came close to matching the Sox in attendance. Then the Sox blew a good chance to go the Series by losing the last five games of the season when they were fighting for first. The Sox opened the 1968 season by losing their first 10, and it was just one bad thing after another. When you think about it, it is amazing the White Sox have survived as a franchise. The Allyns, Veeck and Reinsdorf surely haven't helped things any.

Hangar18
05-05-2003, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Actually, that's not a color photograph. That's a tinted b&w photo, and the real bricks were nowhere near that intense in color..........

Refurbishing wasn't an option, because they had nowhere to play for the time it would have taken........ Do you think the Cubs would have let the Sox play at Wrigley for a year? I don't.

the Red Looked better, thats what they shouldve Built. A Red Bricked Stadium w a view of Downtown Chicago in LF. And we should be GLAD they never Set Foot on the CURSED Field. Think of all the terrible years we wouldve had since then? We already somewhat Doomed because of our Proximity to the dang place....
that wouldve doomed us for sure. 1,000 years is a long time people.

steff
05-05-2003, 05:12 PM
Is it just me or does Hangar sound more and more like Lip every day.... :?:

ssang
05-05-2003, 09:29 PM
How about Sammy Sosa for George Bell????

Lip Man 1
05-05-2003, 09:53 PM
Steff:

I don't know if I should feel insulted or happy! LOL

Lip

Hangar18
05-06-2003, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by steff3603
Is it just me or does Hangar sound more and more like Lip every day.... :?:

hahaha. I need a laugh. My sox are about to dismantle this team......Again