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View Full Version : OUR season............


TheBigHurt
05-03-2003, 10:42 AM
....GETTING flushed down the toilet in a hurry....HAVE to blame most of this on our offense and, at times our pen

DAM maybe we cant stop this:

gosox41
05-03-2003, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by TheBigHurt
....GETTING flushed down the toilet in a hurry....HAVE to blame most of this on our offense and, at times our pen

DAM maybe we cant stop this:

The only thing missing from this team is the players to start talking about how early it is and how there is still plenty of time to make it all back.

They did this in 2001 and 2002. You'd think KW would notice the trend. Instead he's just doing the SOS as the team struggles...sitting there watching and waiting. By the time he does something the team will be out of it and another season will be wasted.

There's something rotten about this team. Whether it's the fact that us Sox fans expect too much of them (which I don't think we did for the most part) to the fact that the offense all slumps at once to the fact that KW is like 1 for 4 in making his major acquisitions. Something's not right and needs to be addressed.

One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. What has this team done differently to break up all these ugly trends?

Bob

lowesox
05-03-2003, 11:34 AM
Why is WSI so panicky? Our record is plus .500 and we're a half a game ahead of the team we need to be worried about. Ok, we haven't been great yet, but neither have the other teams. Every team good or bad has good spells and bad spells. This is a bad one, which happens to be happening during a tough turn in the schedule.

Things aren't exactly how they should be, but lets not get overdramatic. This division is as ripe for the taking today as it was when the season started.

sox_fan_forever
05-03-2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
Things aren't exactly how they should be, but lets not get overdramatic. This division is as ripe for the taking today as it was when the season started.

That's exactly my problem. The division is weak enough that I still think the Sox have a good chance of winning it, but then what? It will be three and out in the playoffs again.

lowesox
05-03-2003, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by sox_fan_forever
That's exactly my problem. The division is weak enough that I still think the Sox have a good chance of winning it, but then what? It will be three and out in the playoffs again.

Maybe, but maybe not. If Buerle and Colon get it together, and Loaiza pitches like he has early on, this is going to be a very hard team to beat. As a matter of fact, I'll bet that if the WhiteSox make the playoffs they'll be the sleeper pick of every Sportscaster in the country.

gosox41
05-03-2003, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
Why is WSI so panicky? Our record is plus .500 and we're a half a game ahead of the team we need to be worried about. Ok, we haven't been great yet, but neither have the other teams. Every team good or bad has good spells and bad spells. This is a bad one, which happens to be happening during a tough turn in the schedule.

Things aren't exactly how they should be, but lets not get overdramatic. This division is as ripe for the taking today as it was when the season started.

Because we hear this every year. The division was ripe for the taking in 2001 and 2002 and the Sox were average. The problem is when this team struggles it's for along time. When they finally do get it right, they'll be 15 games out of first place and make a run to finish 8-10 out.

The fact that this team experiences the same problems every year is a worrisome sign. The fact that they do nothing about it is even more worrisome. This 'It's still early' and 'The division is ripe for the taking' is not what this team needs. Were you saying that the last 2 years too? They need a shakeup before it's too late.

Bob

TheBigHurt
05-03-2003, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
They need a shakeup before it's too late.


YA, its mostly vets or young guys who been here for a while, (that's had at least 2 good seasons) that are not playing there very best like: (to name a few)

MR. Hurt
Maggs
PK
Manos (early on yes, but not lately)
Koch
Gordon

ILL name Garland since I expected he would have a very good season

lowesox
05-03-2003, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Because we hear this every year. The division was ripe for the taking in 2001 and 2002 and the Sox were average. The problem is when this team struggles it's for along time. When they finally do get it right, they'll be 15 games out of first place and make a run to finish 8-10 out.

The fact that this team experiences the same problems every year is a worrisome sign. The fact that they do nothing about it is even more worrisome. This 'It's still early' and 'The division is ripe for the taking' is not what this team needs. Were you saying that the last 2 years too? They need a shakeup before it's too late.

Bob


One thing that nobody ever talks about when they discuss problems with the WhiteSox is the extremely negative nature of their fans. Just read the threads here at WSI. Crede was hot at the beginning of the season, the second he cooled off he's become overhyped. Loiaza was our Godsend in april, after one start lots of posters are giving up on him.

In the post before this one it talks about the players who are underperforming. Paul Konerko's on that list - but he's shown some signs of his former self lately. Frank Thomas is on that list, but at the beginning of the season Frank looked dynamite. And Magglio is on it too, despite having one of (if not the) longest hitting streaks in the majors this season.

Always having a negative perspective is a great way to get negative results.

ssang
05-03-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
One thing that nobody ever talks about when they discuss problems with the WhiteSox is the extremely negative nature of their fans......Always having a negative perspective is a great way to get negative results.

I'm pretty sure that our negative views of the White Sox aren't the reason for team's negative results. What does it matter what we think? The White Sox are gonna lose regardless of how the fans perceive them. Whether we think the Sox are good or bad is irrelevant as to how the team performs on the field.

lowesox
05-03-2003, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by ssang
I'm pretty sure that our negative views of the White Sox aren't the reason for team's negative results. What does it matter what we think? The White Sox are gonna lose regardless of how the fans perceive them. Whether we think the Sox are good or bad is irrelevant as to how the team performs on the field.

There's no way of proving the value of fans to their teams. But I really feel a team will be more competitve when they have their fans behind them. That's the reason why I think playoff games are usually closer then regular season games are.

You don't think the WhiteSox players and coaches ever log onto to WSI to read this stuff? I'll bet some of them don't. But I guarantee some of them do!

If you were a player for this team, chances are you wouldn't feel a lot of inspiration from fans who are continually finding flaws in the way you play.

And I'm not saying that its wrong for us to address flaws here. I do think its wrong for us to hate our own. Or to a lesser extent, not offer them the benefit of a doubt. And while many posters at WSI do love this team, only a select few give them the benefit of a doubt.

Will that help lose baseball games? I only think so. But I'm positive that a packed stadium full of energetic fans helps win baseball games.

MisterB
05-03-2003, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by ssang
I'm pretty sure that our negative views of the White Sox aren't the reason for team's negative results. What does it matter what we think? The White Sox are gonna lose regardless of how the fans perceive them. Whether we think the Sox are good or bad is irrelevant as to how the team performs on the field.

Imagine being in a workplace where, no matter how well you do your job, any mistake you make is siezed on by your co-workers and used to ridicule and insult you mercilessly. Eventually it gets to you. Now imagine those co-workers are replaced by 15,000+ fans doing the same. It WILL get to you eventually.

If the posts on this board are any indication, the Sox get little moral support from their fan base. Those fans who try to approach the team with any kind of positive attitude are ridiculed as being no better than delusional Cubbie fans. Fans seem to seek out problems even where none exist and will lambaste the team at the drop of a hat (or flyball as the case may be). Basically the fans always expect the worst, and the team gives the fans what they want.

duke of dorwood
05-03-2003, 07:43 PM
Nowhere is there more support for the Sox players than here the past few years. There's been more "benefit of the doubt" allowed until it becomes a chronic problem.

lowesox
05-03-2003, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
Nowhere is there more support for the Sox players than here the past few years. There's been more "benefit of the doubt" allowed until it becomes a chronic problem.

I would argue that WSI qualifies more as a venting area than a support group. That's the problem with impatient fans: they're unable to self-diagnose.

Kilroy
05-03-2003, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Why is WSI so panicky? Our record is plus .500 and we're a half a game ahead of the team we need to be worried about. Ok, we haven't been great yet, but neither have the other teams. Every team good or bad has good spells and bad spells. This is a bad one, which happens to be happening during a tough turn in the schedule.

Things aren't exactly how they should be, but lets not get overdramatic. This division is as ripe for the taking today as it was when the season started.

I'm not panicky, I just hate to see Cameron standing there picking out pitches to drive.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-03-2003, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
There's no way of proving the value of fans to their teams. But I really feel a team will be more competitve when they have their fans behind them. That's the reason why I think playoff games are usually closer then regular season games are.

Yes, the fans' complete adoration of the Lovable Losers has made the Flubbies into a winning dynasty rivaled only by the Yankees!

You don't think the WhiteSox players and coaches ever log onto to WSI to read this stuff? I'll bet some of them don't. But I guarantee some of them do!

No proof of this, but I'm sure it is true.

If you were a player for this team, chances are you wouldn't feel a lot of inspiration from fans who are continually finding flaws in the way you play.

What ballplayers really despise are empty seats. I dare say the fans posting here are among the most active supporters of the team, hard-core fans that attend far more games than the average fan.

And I'm not saying that its wrong for us to address flaws here. I do think its wrong for us to hate our own. Or to a lesser extent, not offer them the benefit of a doubt. And while many posters at WSI do love this team, only a select few give them the benefit of a doubt.

Nobody who bothers to surf to WSI and post here "hates" the White Sox. If you think somebody does, go ahead and identify them by name. You'll only make yourself look like a complete ass for leveling such an accusation.

Will that help lose baseball games? I only think so. But I'm positive that a packed stadium full of energetic fans helps win baseball games.

You think the Cubs will win the N.L. Central because of all those seats filled with infantile lemmings? I sincerely doubt it.

lowesox
05-03-2003, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Yes, the fans' complete adoration of the Lovable Losers has made the Flubbies into a winning dynasty rivaled only by the Yankees!

No proof of this, but I'm sure it is true.

What ballplayers really despise are empty seats. I dare say the fans posting here are among the most active supporters of the team, hard-core fans that attend far more games than the average fan.

Nobody who bothers to surf to WSI and post here "hates" the White Sox. If you think somebody does, go ahead and identify them by name. You'll only make yourself look like a complete ass for leveling such an accusation.

You think the Cubs will win the N.L. Central because of all those seats filled with infantile lemmings? I sincerely doubt it.

First of all: I didn't say the cubs would win the N.L. Central. I didn't talk about the cubs at all. But, I will say that its sad how obsessed WhiteSox fans get with the cubs. But yes, I do think having lots of fans cheering them on will help them win more games. I also think the Sox have a better team on paper, but right now, dare I say it, I think the Cubs have better fans.

Secondly: While everybody at WSI clearly has a passion for what happens with this team, and being that we are "the hardcore fans" as you put it, the way we react to this team has a huge effect on how they'll play.

If you don't believe that fans make a difference I suspect its because you'd rather take the easier route of venting about the team then the more difficult one of trying to stay optimistic.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-03-2003, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
First of all: I didn't say the cubs would win the N.L. Central. I didn't talk about the cubs at all. But, I will say that its sad how obsessed WhiteSox fans get with the cubs. But yes, I do think having lots of fans cheering them on will help them win more games. I also think the Sox have a better team on paper, but right now, dare I say it, I think the Cubs have better fans.

Secondly: While everybody at WSI clearly has a passion for what happens with this team, and being that we are "the hardcore fans" as you put it, the way we react to this team has a huge effect on how they'll play.

If you don't believe that fans make a difference I suspect its because you'd rather take the easier route of venting about the team then the more difficult one of trying to stay optimistic.

Well, since you think the Cubs have the better fans, why don't you hang out with them? I'm not sure what that says about you, but I would NEVER make such an accusation about Sox Fans myself. But hey, you just go on with your bad self.

capn12
05-03-2003, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
First of all: I didn't say the cubs would win the N.L. Central. I didn't talk about the cubs at all. But, I will say that its sad how obsessed WhiteSox fans get with the cubs. But yes, I do think having lots of fans cheering them on will help them win more games. I also think the Sox have a better team on paper, but right now, dare I say it, I think the Cubs have better fans.

Secondly: While everybody at WSI clearly has a passion for what happens with this team, and being that we are "the hardcore fans" as you put it, the way we react to this team has a huge effect on how they'll play.

If you don't believe that fans make a difference I suspect its because you'd rather take the easier route of venting about the team then the more difficult one of trying to stay optimistic.



http://images.fotki.com/v5/photos/3/32705/111626/capacity-vi.jpg

lowesox
05-03-2003, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Well, since you think the Cubs have the better fans, why don't you hang out with them? I'm not sure what that says about you, but I would NEVER make such an accusation about Sox Fans myself. But hey, you just go on with your bad self.

Over the last week nobody at WSI has provided this team with a shred of patience. We're not 10 games under. We're one over (probably soon to be even). Yes, we suck right now. But its still early, and the season is by no means over.

Good fans are supportive. How supportive have WhiteSox fans been lately?

cheeses_h_rice
05-03-2003, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
First of all: I didn't say the cubs would win the N.L. Central. I didn't talk about the cubs at all. But, I will say that its sad how obsessed WhiteSox fans get with the cubs. But yes, I do think having lots of fans cheering them on will help them win more games. I also think the Sox have a better team on paper, but right now, dare I say it, I think the Cubs have better fans.

Secondly: While everybody at WSI clearly has a passion for what happens with this team, and being that we are "the hardcore fans" as you put it, the way we react to this team has a huge effect on how they'll play.

If you don't believe that fans make a difference I suspect its because you'd rather take the easier route of venting about the team then the more difficult one of trying to stay optimistic.

Sorry dude, these are professional baseball players we're talking about. They've been peforming in public since they were in their youths. If they need their fans to mollycoddle them every step of the way, then I don't think they're worth rooting for.

And re: the Cubs, you're confusing the masses of butts in the seats with how much they care for the team proper. It's been well documented here and elsewhere that goodly portion of the people at Wrigley are there for the experience of Wrigley first and the Cubs-as-baseball second. But, hey, if you can only handle rooting for a team who somehow manages to fill its ballpark, by all means head to Clark & Addison. IIRC, the Cubs had some pretty amazing attendance records in 1999 and 2000, when they were truly, truly awful.

lowesox
05-03-2003, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Sorry dude, these are professional baseball players we're talking about. They've been peforming in public since they were in their youths. If they need their fans to mollycoddle them every step of the way, then I don't think they're worth rooting for.

And re: the Cubs, you're confusing the masses of butts in the seats with how much they care for the team proper. It's been well documented here and elsewhere that goodly portion of the people at Wrigley are there for the experience of Wrigley first and the Cubs-as-baseball second. But, hey, if you can only handle rooting for a team who somehow manages to fill its ballpark, by all means head to Clark & Addison. IIRC, the Cubs had some pretty amazing attendance records in 1999 and 2000, when they were truly, truly awful.

I was speaking more about the negativity of WhiteSox fans. With the way we've been lately, every team has better fans by default.

ShoelessFred
05-03-2003, 08:51 PM
actually from what i have seen on these boards it's loesox's fault fot the horrible start

PaleHoseGeorge
05-03-2003, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
I was speaking more about the negativity of WhiteSox fans. With the way we've been lately, every team has better fans by default.

Actually, you weren't. You specifically said the Cubs had better fans than the White Sox. Now you're being called on it. Either retract it, or face the music. Denying it will get you nowhere.

The season is not over. In similar circumstances the Sox of '83 didn't reach first place until mid-July. Noting these facts has no bearing on the simple truth that they are playing like absolute crap right now.

Viva Magglio
05-03-2003, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Over the last week nobody at WSI has provided this team with a shred of patience. We're not 10 games under. We're one over (probably soon to be even). Yes, we suck right now. But its still early, and the season is by no means over.

Good fans are supportive. How supportive have WhiteSox fans been lately?

Don't give me "it's early." We have sucked since mid-2000.

cheeses_h_rice
05-03-2003, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
I was speaking more about the negativity of WhiteSox fans. With the way we've been lately, every team has better fans by default.

I think we've earned the right to be negative. There is absolutely no frigging reason this team should be playing as poorly as it is. We should be MOPPING UP the AL Central with our lineup.

There's something ingrained in this team that makes it a loser. Is it Jerry Manuel? Kenny Williams? Our players? I don't know, but I suspect it starts from the top and works its way down.

Why is one of the most potent lineups in all of baseball hitting so crappy? Why are we fielding like third-graders in a Peewee League? Why are some of our pitchers tossing up spicy meatballs to be smacked around like a batting practice toss to the other team?

We're so bad, we can't even compete in the worst division in all of baseball. Even if, by some miracle, this team advances to the playoffs, it's going to get destroyed in any sort of pressure-laden playoff series against a superior opponent.

I love the White Sox and I will 'til the day I die. But goddamn if they aren't pissing the hell out of me right about now.

lowesox
05-03-2003, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I think we've earned the right to be negative.

I agree with everything else you wrote. Actually, I agree with this too. But, what I want to know is why does everybody want to be negative? Isn't it better to try and stick with your team through tough times?

Paulwny
05-03-2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
I agree with everything else you wrote. Actually, I agree with this too. But, what I want to know is why does everybody want to be negative? Isn't it better to try and stick with your team through tough times?

It's a love/hate relationship and right now we feel betrayed.

cheeses_h_rice
05-03-2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
I agree with everything else you wrote. Actually, I agree with this too. But, what I want to know is why does everybody want to be negative? Isn't it better to try and stick with your team through tough times?

I think we've all tried that and it hasn't worked out.

What will happen is, the Sox will unload some salary before the trade deadline, play some "kids," and -- with all the pressure of playoff expectations off of them -- suddenly "play well" in the second half of the season. Not well enough to make the playoffs, of course, but just good enough that people say "Wow, wait 'til next year." And, as is their style, next year they start off playing like garbage and we repeat the cycle over and over again.

Someone else pointed out that we're making the exact same mistakes as we have the last few years, and it's true. We're not fielding any better. Our baserunning is still terrible. Frank looks not-good, and even Maggs freezes up when there's a big run opportunity presented. I see very, very little to be optimistic about with this team. I'll still go see them the 8 or so times I have tickets for, but I'm tired of investing so much energy in them only to be let down time and time again.

Maybe if we were the Tigers I'd try to be as optimistic as I could, looking for things that could improve down the line. But the Sox have done just about all they can to put together a winning crew, and they're still failing, which is why I think a mammoth overall is due at the highest levels. Right now I would love to see a new owner, new GM, new manager, new coaches, and some new faces on the team. Let's start over. I'm sick of these bums.

lowesox
05-03-2003, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I think we've all tried that and it hasn't worked out.

What will happen is, the Sox will unload some salary before the trade deadline, play some "kids," and -- with all the pressure of playoff expectations off of them -- suddenly "play well" in the second half of the season. Not well enough to make the playoffs, of course, but just good enough that people say "Wow, wait 'til next year." And, as is their style, next year they start off playing like garbage and we repeat the cycle over and over again.

Someone else pointed out that we're making the exact same mistakes as we have the last few years, and it's true. We're not fielding any better. Our baserunning is still terrible. Frank looks not-good, and even Maggs freezes up when there's a big run opportunity presented. I see very, very little to be optimistic about with this team. I'll still go see them the 8 or so times I have tickets for, but I'm tired of investing so much energy in them only to be let down time and time again.

Maybe if we were the Tigers I'd try to be as optimistic as I could, looking for things that could improve down the line. But the Sox have done just about all they can to put together a winning crew, and they're still failing, which is why I think a mammoth overall is due at the highest levels. Right now I would love to see a new owner, new GM, new manager, new coaches, and some new faces on the team. Let's start over. I'm sick of these bums.

Hey, I'm reasonably new to WSI but I've gone through all of that with you. And it cuts me just as much when we lose. I guess I just think there isn't any point supporting a team, if all you do is feel sh*tty about it.

I disagree that this season is a wash. If anything, the length of time that we've been terrible is probably why everybody is giving up so early. But the truth is, we're one turning point, one winning streak away from being a really good team. And that could happen any day.

If anything, one reason why I'm standing by "it's still early" is because there are a lot of new faces this year. And yes all of the same problems still exist and that needs to be resolved, but maybe this team just needs to gel and build chemistry.

ShoelessFred
05-03-2003, 09:18 PM
:whiner:

AHHHHHH my ears are bleeding from hearing you say the "early" thing, sorry i can't repeat it myself or my head will explode. next thing you will be saying is garland is still young too right?

lowesox
05-03-2003, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by ShoelessFred
:whiner:

AHHHHHH my ears are bleeding from hearing you say the "early" thing, sorry i can't repeat it myself or my head will explode. next thing you will be saying is garland is still young too right?

No, I've recommended that Garland be sent down or to the bullpen.

Although, I will say that I do think Garland is still young. He has a couple of years experience but he's as old as most major league rookies.

cheeses_h_rice
05-03-2003, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Hey, I'm reasonably new to WSI but I've gone through all of that with you. And it cuts me just as much when we lose. I guess I just think there isn't any point supporting a team, if all you do is feel sh*tty about it.

I disagree that this season is a wash. If anything, the length of time that we've been terrible is probably why everybody is giving up so early. But the truth is, we're one turning point, one winning streak away from being a really good team. And that could happen any day.

If anything, one reason why I'm standing by "it's still early" is because there are a lot of new faces this year. And yes all of the same problems still exist and that needs to be resolved, but maybe this team just needs to gel and build chemistry.

Call me a cynic, but I just don't think this team is on par with an '83 Sox, an '01 A's, or the '02 Angels. The way we've played in the first month has a great deal to do with how we'll finish the year. We've had some decent pitching, which is why we're still "in the race." I can only see it getting worse from here on out. We just don't have enough big game hunters on our team; there are too many guys who get mental when the pressure is on. We need about 5-6 guys to start stepping up, and stepping up now -- Garland, Konerko, Carlos, Koch, Frank and Crede especially. I don't see it happening.

I'll still watch the games, but I'm not expecting much.

TheBigHurt
05-04-2003, 12:43 AM
AFTER toknight.....STILL this season is far from over.......

BE GOOD

Huisj
05-04-2003, 01:15 AM
It's true that the season isn't yet a wash--lots of teams have been .500 in early may and gone on to be good the rest of the year . . . however, this team has never shown in the past that it can play when it counts. they will do exactly the same thing as always--run fast out of the gate, fall apart for most of the year, and then have a good september. it's just sickening after a while.

TheBigHurt
05-04-2003, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by Huisj
It's true that the season isn't yet a wash--lots of teams have been .500 in early may and gone on to be good the rest of the year . . .

YEAH, true most recent probaly the A's of last yr....AND it happens yearly where a team struggles early on then makes a run at the end

BE GOOD

Hangar18
05-04-2003, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by Kilroy
I'm not panicky, I just hate to see Cameron standing there picking out pitches to drive.

hahahahahahahaahahaha. this quote says it all. I may not be panicky as much as Im Aggravated and Frustrated. I turned the game off as soon as it was 6-0 and still dont know what the final score was, thats how Angry I got last nite. I cant believe this team is going to let 1 man, Mike Cameron just beat us to death time and time again. Was he even brushed back a bit last nite? I'll be he wasnt. That is just simple baseball rules. A guy hurts you, he not only doesnt get a PITCH TO HITthe rest of the Game, He Most Likely Sees SOME INSIDE PITCHES. This team is playing scared now. See what happens when you lose a few games here and there that you should be winning? Losing starts to permeate the attitudes. theres No Fight in these guys. Theyve given up just about. Why am I so worried? WE needed to start out great, and WE DIDNT. instead, KC did, and now in a division ready to be taken over, the Sox are just Rolling Over. Jerry Manuel HAS TO GO. Do it SUNDAY NITE AFTER WE LOSE ON NATIONAL/WORLD TV. (yes, were going to look like Chumps again I can tell to the UK/World audience tonite)