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MRKARNO
05-02-2003, 08:44 PM
Which military general do you think Jerry Manual is most like?

I say that he is like McClellan. Never ready to fight, always looking for reinforcements, eventually got fired by Lincoln.

Also, what military general should a new manager be modeled on? I think tommy Franks because of SHock and Awe.

LuvSox
05-02-2003, 08:49 PM
McClellan was actually a great trainer/teacher. So that leaves him out. I say he's like Gen. Joseph Hooker. Look him up


Who do we need? A general William Tecumsah Sherman. The man who burned down Georgia. He took exactly zero crap and his men loved him.

duke of dorwood
05-02-2003, 09:34 PM
General Burkhalter

WhiteSoxWinner
05-02-2003, 10:08 PM
Hooker is a good pick, but at least Hooker talked a good game, even if he couldn't put it together in the field. Now, who is JM? I say Ambrose Burnside. A general who could never get it right no matter what he tried. At Frederickburg, he just kept marching the troops into the Confederate fire. Just like Jerry, marching the Choice and other light hitting players only to get shot up by opposing pitchers. Then he tried a goofy idea like blowing up the Confederate line at the Battle of the Crater. Just like moving your middle infielders to Centerfield. Both ideas were pretty goofy.

WhiteSoxWinner
05-02-2003, 10:15 PM
Now who do we need? I hate to be obvious, but I would say Robert E. Lee. Name another General who got more from the troops he was given, questioned convention and got results? Never split your forces in the face of a larger enemy? Ha, Lee did a number of times. Let your best pitchers face a good batter, despite the lefty/righty match up? Not Jerry, got to stick with convention and play the match up.

Procol Harum
05-02-2003, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
Now who do we need? I hate to be obvious, but I would say Robert E. Lee. Name another General who got more from the troops he was given, questioned convention and got results? Never split your forces in the face of a larger enemy? Ha, Lee did a number of times. Let your best pitchers face a good batter, despite the lefty/righty match up? Not Jerry, got to stick with convention and play the match up.

Well said, WSW. Burnside--a Cub General if there ever was one; on the Confederate side it would've been Braxton Bragg as model Cub manager. Grant and Sherman--undoubtedly Yankee generals in more than one way--take away the incredible advantage in men and material (or money and free agents) and left to rely on their own acumen and wile they would have been chased back over the Mason-Dixon Line faster than you can whistle the "Battle Hymn of the Republic."

R.E. Lee for next Sox manager!

Daver
05-02-2003, 10:58 PM
We need Czal to chime in on this.

MisterB
05-02-2003, 11:07 PM
Any military leader with JM's skills would have been fragged by his troops long before he made General...

hempsox
05-02-2003, 11:41 PM
HMMM...all these references to Generals...why is it that when it comes to generals the American Civil War comes to the forefront. Personnally I would consider Jerry more of a General of the caliber of John Pope. Early in the CW he earned distiction with victories in the west. Was commanding the AoP during 2nd Manassass.

Who would I pick as my type of manager. How about Jubal Early...he could have captured Washington if he had just had another starter.

fuzzy_patters
05-02-2003, 11:53 PM
I'm surprised no one has picked General Mills? :)

hose
05-03-2003, 12:17 AM
I'll pick Major General John P. Lucas US Commander of the 5th Army's VI Corps he was under Lt. General Mark W. Clark at Anzio.

After landing on the Anzio beach to the surprise of the high German command and moving in all the troops and meeting absolutely no resistance to speak of , Lucas could have drove up Highways 6 and 7 into Rome , but decided to be cautious and dig in.

This gave Kesselring enough time to counter attack with 8 division with 5 more on the way, turning what should have been a smashing victory into a slug fest .

The Allies were pinned down on Anzio beach head for 4 months taking 280 mm shells from "Anzio Annie" a German railway gun all because Lucas didn't have the balls of a Gen Patton. It took General Harold Alexander's leadership to breakout of the beachhead and penetrate the vaunted Gustav Line.


X - tried getting a picture of
Albert Kesselring here

hose
05-03-2003, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Which military general do you think Jerry Manual is most like?

I say that he is like McClellan. Never ready to fight, always looking for reinforcements, eventually got fired by Lincoln.

Also, what military general should a new manager be modeled on? I think tommy Franks because of SHock and Awe.


JM should model his attack after Gengis Khan and the Golden Horde.......NO MERCY

Problem is JM is really more Chaka Khan

TornLabrum
05-03-2003, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
Now who do we need? I hate to be obvious, but I would say Robert E. Lee. Name another General who got more from the troops he was given, questioned convention and got results? Never split your forces in the face of a larger enemy? Ha, Lee did a number of times. Let your best pitchers face a good batter, despite the lefty/righty match up? Not Jerry, got to stick with convention and play the match up.

And in true White Sox tradition, he won many battles but lost the war.

Procol Harum
05-03-2003, 10:52 AM
Best bet--give me Robert E. Lee with U.S. Grant money and resources. :D:

WhiteSoxWinner
05-03-2003, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by Procol Harum
on the Confederate side it would've been Braxton Bragg as model Cub manager.

Excellent call. I was torn between Burnside and Bragg. I like the way you think Procol. :smile:

Dan Gelo
05-03-2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
Excellent call. I was torn between Burnside and Bragg. I like the way you think Procol. :smile:

Thanks WSW; I'm a long-time War Between the States guy.

Dan Gelo
05-03-2003, 01:50 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan Gelo
Thanks WSW; I'm a long-time War Between the States guy. [/QUOTE

Oops.

Procol Harum
05-03-2003, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Dan Gelo
Thanks WSW; I'm a long-time War Between the States guy.


As I meant to say--before I logged on to my #1 Son's account by mistake (he's a WSI newbie).

TheBigHurt
05-04-2003, 12:05 AM
I am not to familiar with Generals so ill say the General who sleeps all day and is clueless and who has an idiot "boss" who doesn't want to fire him for whatever reason

BE GOOD

WhiteSox = Life
05-04-2003, 12:23 AM
It's obvious what general Jerry Manuel is for the White Sox:

General Failure.

LuvSox
05-04-2003, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by TommyJohn
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Custer. There have been
moments in the season that greatly resembled Little Bighorn.

I wouldn't compare JM to Custer. George A. Custer had an impeccable military career, aside from a court martial & Little Bighorn. (And he wasn't a General very Long--a Lt. Colonel at the time of his death.) On the other hand, Jerry has had a terrible record, aside from 2000.

TornLabrum
05-04-2003, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
It's obvious what general Jerry Manuel is for the White Sox:

General Failure.

He already has a name in the "Fallen Arches" column: Gen. Disarray.

hose
05-04-2003, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Which military general do you think Jerry Manual is most like?

I say that he is like McClellan. Never ready to fight, always looking for reinforcements, eventually got fired by Lincoln.

Also, what military general should a new manager be modeled on? I think tommy Franks because of SHock and Awe.


After thinking about this I have come to the conclusion that Reinsdorf would never pay a General's salary.

Manuel would grade out as a Captain.(Army)

Lieutenant from a Navy prespective. ( DONT GIVE UP THE SHIP.....sell it)

PaleHoseGeorge
05-04-2003, 12:47 PM
First I want to compliment the thoughtful perspectives offered by the posters on this thread. We clearly have people here who know their military history.

To my way of thinking Manuel is Burnside, chosen to be general only because so many others (even Burnside himself thought superior) had already failed at the job. Burnside was basically incompetent, but he might have been a greater general had he simply projected a bigger ego and worried less about the demons inside his head. That's sounds a lot like Manuel to me.

Why did I like Manuel so much as manager his first three seasons? That's an easy one to answer. He replaced Sargeant Schultz.



"I know nuuuuth-ing!"

Wyldkard
05-04-2003, 12:55 PM
Another comparison between Burnside and Manual. Burnside achieved most of his stature and position through his buddy McClellan, much like Manual did through Leyland.

Paulwny
05-04-2003, 01:15 PM
I'm not sure about generals but, I feel we're once again seeing, as we have for the last few years, the maiden voyage of the Titanic under Captain Edward John Smith.

MHOUSE
05-04-2003, 01:25 PM
McClellan makes sense because everytime he had to do something, he took too long and although sometimes he was successful, overall he lost out and WAS FIRED. The Titanic would make sense. Lots of hype, unsinkable, then the captain basically goes asleep at the wheel and doesn't pay attention and then goes down. At least Smith went down with the ship while Manuel is scrambling lifeboats and S.O.S. and everything to save himself instead of making the team better and play to potential.

I would like to see a general like Einsenhower with balls who was consistent, but also level-headed and listened to his advisors and kept everyone happy and eventually became president and was successful there also. Lee was almost too good a general to coach the white sox and Sherman was a little too into destruction. My grandpa always said Omar Bradley was his favorite, but I don't know much about him.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-04-2003, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
....My grandpa always said Omar Bradley was his favorite, but I don't know much about him.

For WWII American generals, Bradley might be a similar leader to Manuel. Very popular with his troops and regarded favorably by the press. Like Manuel in '00, Bradley had one shining moment in Operation Cobra, to breakout of Normandy and lead the Allied forces across France.

Patton the Movie portrayed Bradley (played by big-nosed Karl Malden) as some sort of unappreciated genius. On closer inspection, Bradley may have been in over his head. Patton privately referred to him as "Omar the Tentmaker" because he never took risks. The German generals felt Bradley botched the Falaise Gap manuever, and his misuse of troops in the Hurtgen Forest bordered on criminal incompetence. Let's not forget that it was Bradley, too, that left the Ardennes Forest weakly defended and nearly broke apart the Allied alliance when the Germans made a drive to Antwerp in precisely that sector.

Yeah, Bradley and Manuel could be soul mates. :cool:

LuvSox
05-04-2003, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Sherman was a little too into destruction.

Go read your history books again.