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Lip Man 1
05-01-2003, 11:22 PM
I was in touch with an acquaintance of mine today who works in the sports media. He is in a management position at one of the Chicago papers and I was asking him about the Sox.

He had an interesting take on things that I thought I'd share. I will not give his name because I'm sure some fans out there aren't going to like what he says and he doesn't need the abuse.

Anyway I was kidding him about how many "can't miss kids" the Sox will be getting for Colon at the trade deadline when they are just a few games over .500, drawing nobody and are out of the race.

My friend said that it was funny I mentioned that because he and his family were talking about that very thing at the game Wednesday night. (Yes he PAID for his tickets!)

My friend thinks that the Sox have the capacity to win the division with an 86-76 mark. However he feels that despite the Sox having this chance, that Jerry Reinsdorf will see that even if this team makes the playoffs, it will get decimated in the opening round and will agree to allow Colon to be traded. He also thinks the Sox will unload Ordonez because Mags is due to make 14 million next season. (Perhaps Borchard can take his place?) With the club unable to draw fans no matter what they do, he feels that there is no way they will be willing to pay this type of salary.

Oddly enough my friend thinks that in this situation Reinsdorf would be correct in pulling off the sequel to the "White Flag" deal of 1997.

He also thinks that Manuel will be fired on or around May 14th and that Williams has a legit chance to go with him. I guess the only real solution to the years of Sox troubles would be for new ownership to take over and start from a clean slate.

Just FYI

Jerry_Manuel
05-01-2003, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
He also thinks that Manuel will be fired on or around May 14th and that Williams has a legit chance to go with him.

I'd agree with that. I don't know anything, but something tells me that Einhorn is itchy to get rid of Williams for the crap he pulls behind the scenes.

voodoochile
05-01-2003, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
I'd agree with that. I don't know anything, but something tells me that Einhorn is itchy to get rid of Williams for the crap he pulls behind the scenes.

I'd be very surprised if Williams gets fired before the end of the season. But, I think if he trys to replace Manuel, he will be told that his job depends on the new guy leading the team to the playoffs.

Jerry_Manuel
05-02-2003, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I'd be very surprised if Williams gets fired before the end of the season. But, I think if he trys to replace Manuel, he will be told that his job depends on the new guy leading the team to the playoffs.

I could see that. Also should depend on him agreeing not to interfere with the new manager like he does with Manuel.

Brian26
05-02-2003, 12:29 AM
Ugh.

Lip, this is the SECOND time you've posted this doomsday crap on this board. What's the point?

The original white flag trade didn't involve trading the franchise player of the organization for prospects. We traded Darwin, Alvarez and Roberto. All three of them were mediocre at best and replaced quickly.

The Sox are not going to trade Ordonez. He's the franchise. If things go south, I can see them trading Colon, Frank, CLee and/or Konerko. Mags isn't going anywhere.

Kenny is Reinsdorf's boy, and he's not going anywhere either. Manual might get the boot, but not Kenny.

Keep this garbage to yourself for now on, because it does nothing but promote negativity around here. Save this crap for your calls to the Score.

:angry:

MHOUSE
05-02-2003, 12:33 AM
If Bartolo is .500 or worse and so are we then he might be gone at the allstar break. But I would still like to see him in a Sox uni with Buehrle for a long time. Perhaps the Yankees would give us a good pitcher for Colon? Weaver? I dunno. I doubt Maggs or Paulie would go or that anyone would want Frank. I wouldn't be surprised to see Lee moved. This all depends on our record.

Daver
05-02-2003, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Ugh.

Lip, this is the SECOND time you've posted this doomsday crap on this board. What's the point?

The original white flag trade didn't involve trading the franchise player of the organization for prospects. We traded Darwin, Alvarez and Roberto. All three of them were mediocre at best and replaced quickly.

The Sox are not going to trade Ordonez. He's the franchise. If things go south, I can see them trading Colon, Frank, CLee and/or Konerko. Mags isn't going anywhere.

Kenny is Reinsdorf's boy, and he's not going anywhere either. Manual might get the boot, but not Kenny.

Keep this garbage to yourself for now on, because it does nothing but promote negativity around here. Save this crap for your calls to the Score.

:angry:

They can't trade Frank unless he approves it,and he won't because he has an out in his contract.

Lip has known contacts in the media that I can verify,what do you have to back up your reply other than your opinion?

Blueprint1
05-02-2003, 12:52 AM
I really don't believe any of this rant. What does someone at a newspaper know what we dont know? maybe a little but not all that much.

Brian26
05-02-2003, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by daver
Lip has known contacts in the media that I can verify,what do you have to back up your reply other than your opinion?


I think the bigger question is why does "Lip" feel it necessary to once again come to the board and present this doomsday info again. Is he pretending like nobody remembers the last time he told us this a month ago? I remember it quite clearly. It seems like he's presenting this as new information, even though it's the 2nd time I've seen him post it.

What's the point?

The only thing I can back up my reply with is the inherent knowledge that trading Colon AND Magglio at the All-Star break would absolutely cripple this franchise from a business standpoint. Why would Reinsdorf destroy something he has a controlling interest in? Mags' 14 million dollar salary is nothing compared to the loss of revenue that would be generated by destroying the Chicago White Sox fan base in a complete 180-degree turnaround from the good karma produced from the January Colon trade and the general good-aura surrounding the All-Star Game and 2003 promotional campaign.

doublem23
05-02-2003, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
I think the bigger question is why does "Lip" feel it necessary to once again come to the board and present this doomsday info again.

It makes him feel like he knows what he's talking about.

Daver
05-02-2003, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
I think the bigger question is why does "Lip" feel it necessary to once again come to the board and present this doomsday info again. Is he pretending like nobody remembers the last time he told us this a month ago? I remember it quite clearly. It seems like he's presenting this as new information, even though it's the 2nd time I've seen him post it.

What's the point?

The only thing I can back up my reply with is the inherent knowledge that trading Colon AND Magglio at the All-Star break would absolutely cripple this franchise from a business standpoint. Why would Reinsdorf destroy something he has a controlling interest in? Mags' 14 million dollar salary is nothing compared to the loss of revenue that would be generated by destroying the Chicago White Sox fan base in a complete 180-degree turnaround from the good karma produced from the January Colon trade and the general good-aura surrounding the All-Star Game and 2003 promotional campaign.

I think it has been proven that JR is not against making moves that improve his bottom line,and going after Lip as the messenger to that makes little sense.

Don't shoot the messenger because you don't agree with the news he has.

ShoelessFred
05-02-2003, 01:18 AM
screw reinsdorf!!!!! SELL THE DAMN TEAM YOU JERKOFF!!!!!! we don't want you in chicago. you've killed this franchise and alienated the fans. GO BACK TO NY. you never cared about winning. all you care about is your bottom line. you can do all the surveys you want, the main reason people don't attend the park
is

YOU

Brian26
05-02-2003, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by daver
I think it has been proven that JR is not against making moves that improve his bottom line,and going after Lip as the messenger to that makes little sense.

Don't shoot the messenger because you don't agree with the news he has.

I don't think the "bottom line" is going to improve if the White Sox attendance dwindles to Montreal Expo-like numbers. Trading Mags would destroy this franchise.

The messenger has some sort of bizarre, ego-trip going right now that I don't think is productive or positive. Doomsday rumors aren't necessary. If you've got a personal gripe with Reinsdorf, vent somewhere else. Call the morons on the Score. I don't want to see that crap posted every 3 weeks.

:angry:

Brian26
05-02-2003, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by ShoelessFred
screw reinsdorf!!!!! SELL THE DAMN TEAM YOU JERKOFF!!!!!! we don't want you in chicago. you've killed this franchise and alienated the fans. GO BACK TO NY. you never cared about winning. all you care about is your bottom line. you can do all the surveys you want, the main reason people don't attend the park
is

YOU


This is exactly what I'm talking about. Reisdorf hasn't done anything! Relax. Mags isn't going anywhere. Don't listen to this crap.

Daver
05-02-2003, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
I don't think the "bottom line" is going to improve if the White Sox attendance dwindles to Montreal Expo-like numbers. Trading Mags would destroy this franchise.

The messenger has some sort of bizarre, ego-trip going right now that I don't think is productive or positive. Doomsday rumors aren't necessary. If you've got a personal gripe with Reinsdorf, vent somewhere else. Call the morons on the Score. I don't want to see that crap posted every 3 weeks.

:angry:

This a democratic board,he has as much right to post as much as you do,and he does back his opinion with knowledge that is not attainable to most fans.

Brian26
05-02-2003, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by daver
This a democratic board,he has as much right to post as much as you do,and he does back his opinion with knowledge that is not attainable to most fans.

Why is it so important that I back up my opinion when he doesnt have to back up his? He's telling us that some newspaper guy has an opinion that the Sox will trade Mags. It's presented, however, as if this is inside info from the Sox organization. Why can't Lip name his source? If he can't, I can't believe he's telling the complete truth.

ShoelessFred
05-02-2003, 01:41 AM
i don't care if we win the world series. i want jerry reinsdorf outta town

voodoochile
05-02-2003, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by daver
This a democratic board,he has as much right to post as much as you do,and he does back his opinion with knowledge that is not attainable to most fans.

That's great and it is appreciated when it comes to expressing facts that aren't readily available, but what Lip's above post says is...

(the media source) and his family were talking about that very thing at the game Wednesday night...

(The media source) thinks that the Sox have the capacity to win the division with an 86-76 mark. However he feels that despite the Sox having this chance, that Jerry Reinsdorf will see that even if this team makes the playoffs, it will get decimated in the opening round and will agree to allow Colon to be traded. He also thinks the Sox will unload Ordonez...

my friend thinks that in this situation Reinsdorf would be correct in pulling off the sequel to the "White Flag" deal of 1997...

He also thinks that Manuel will be fired on or around May 14th and that Williams has a legit chance to go with him.

Aside from the part about Manuel (which is still just speculation) the media source offers not one shred of evidence other than his opinion for these rumors. Or, maybe he did and Lip just did a lousy job of backing it up. The opinion of some writer's family isn't news. Neither is that writers personal opinion about the trading deadline situation. The only reason these rumors are presented by Lip are because they support his attacks on JR. I'm no fan of JR, but if all of this happens with the Sox in first, I'll run around my block in my underwear (so bookmark this post and get the camera ready). And, it would indeed be the death knell for the franchise. I for one would never go to another game until JR sells. They might as well leave the city because they would die here in Chicago. All of those obvious facts are just glossed over in the rush to present rumors which suddenly take on more weight because they are presented by a talking head.

Based on all of that, I understand why people think it is crap. Nothing personal against Lip, but that hsc1 poster got more grief than this for presenting a trade rumor that turned out to be true.

Brian26
05-02-2003, 01:47 AM
Thanks for backing me up on this one, Voodoo. At some point, you have to draw the line with this stuff. I don't care what Lip's track record is, I don't want to see this doomsday rumor crap posted because of some sort of weird ego-trip or personal vendetta against Reinsdorf. It's strange because it is the 2nd time I've seen him post this exact story.

Hangar18
05-02-2003, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Ugh.

Lip, this is the SECOND time you've posted this doomsday crap on this board. What's the point?

The original white flag trade didn't involve trading the franchise player of the organization for prospects. We traded Darwin, Alvarez and Roberto. All three of them were mediocre at best and replaced quickly.

The Sox are not going to trade Ordonez. He's the franchise. If things go south, I can see them trading Colon, Frank, CLee and/or Konerko. Mags isn't going anywhere.

Kenny is Reinsdorf's boy, and he's not going anywhere either. Manual might get the boot, but not Kenny.

Keep this garbage to yourself for now on, because it does nothing but promote negativity around here. Save this crap for your calls to the Score.

:angry:
I dont think this is a Doomsday Scenario as much as its something thats Out There. I believe all of this actually, I was at a game, and someone whom I dont know who other than the person was someone involved with mlb, had something to say to the same effect. I didnt think too much about it, I just this person was pretty knowledgable and WASNT a sox fan, and didnt think about it til I read this just now. Person didnt mention Firings, but MENTIONED HOW THIS TEAM OPERATES FISCALLY and that they wouldnt hesitate to make a move taking No Consideration the fans or how they feel. This Person, who was an Older Woman, said this team unless it changes owners, will always do this type of thing to its Fans.
It was during the Boston series I remember

hose
05-02-2003, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Thanks for backing me up on this one, Voodoo. At some point, you have to draw the line with this stuff. I don't care what Lip's track record is, I don't want to see this doomsday rumor crap posted because of some sort of weird ego-trip or personal vendetta against Reinsdorf. It's strange because it is the 2nd time I've seen him post this exact story.


You don't need to be a writer or have inside info to believe that Colon will be traded if the Sox aren't in the race this season.
I would hope to see a couple of top notch prospects in return if that is the case.

No way is Colon going to be here next season unless the Sox win the WS and even then it would be up to Bartolo's discretion.

Maggs not being with the Sox next season is where I think this story is a bit of a stretch.

Just think if US Cellular didn't kick in 68 million to Reinsdork's kitty, how many more Doomsday scenarios would be out there?

The only way to see all these Doomsayers shut up is if the Sox win. Winning changes everything.

34 Inch Stick
05-02-2003, 10:31 AM
Furthering Voodoo's point, it was not even a writer that Lip was speaking about, it was someone in a management position in the sports department. A management person at a paper is not someone in the know and is not really paid to be someone in the know. The management's job is to ensure that the entire sports section, from writing to subject matter to layout, are professionally presented for the buying public. To me this reduces Lip's post to simply an opinion of a person (which we see 500 times a day here).

The reason that the messenger is attacked, Daver is because the veracity of the statement is entirely based on the authority of the person who said it. Look at the statement and tell me, on it's own without any appeal to authority, whether it is worthy of flaming. Of course it is.

Lip, I appreciate your inside knowledge. I respect most of what you say much more than those who are intent to bash you simply because of your disposition. However, these statements and your source do not pass the smell test this time.

Procol Harum
05-02-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Reisdorf hasn't done anything! Relax. Mags isn't going anywhere. Don't listen to this crap.

Reinsdorf hasn't done anything...where have you been the last 22 years???? Because Maggs hasn't been traded yet is of no relevance to anyone with an acquaintance with the history of JR's tenure at the helm of the Sox. Sox fans have more than enough historical evidence to posit that Reinsdorf seems to value his bottom line before all else (see 1994 strike, '97 White Flag Trade, 2003 ticket price hike), is out of touch with his fan base, and runs an organization with a paranoiac, circle-the-wagons mentality that never seems to hesitate in cutting off its own nose to spite its face.

Now, it does stretch the imagination to feel that JR would be so, so stupid as to make these moves with the Sox in first place--but what about 2-3 games out? Unfortunately, we are to the point in the history of this franchise where a substantial portion of the fan base thinks such a move not beyond the realm of possibility. I don't think that's Lip's fault--whose might it be?

hold2dibber
05-02-2003, 11:45 AM
I agree that the info Lip posted appears to be no more than a personal opinion, but what's wrong with that? People post opinions here everyday. Some of the media guy's opinions seem extremely far fetched and unlikely to me (trading Maggs), but others seem entirely plausible (trading Colon if the Sox aren't in the race). I don't see why anyone would attack Lip just because he posted the opinion of someone else. You can disagree with the guy's opinion, but I don't see how Lip did anything wrong for presenting those opinions and subjecting them to discussion. That's exactly what this board is for.

joecrede
05-02-2003, 01:19 PM
What team is going to trade for Maggs and the $14M he's owed?

hold2dibber
05-02-2003, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
What team is going to trade for Maggs and the $14M he's owed?

The Yankees traded for Mondesi, even though he was making huge money and was not good. Maggs is much better. But I think that suggestion is horse crap anyway - Maggs isn't going anywhere.

joecrede
05-02-2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
The Yankees traded for Mondesi, even though he was making huge money and was not good. Maggs is much better. But I think that suggestion is horse crap anyway - Maggs isn't going anywhere.

Doubtful they would deal for Maggs under the new bargaining agreement though.

Personally, I'd listen to any offer for any player, but especailly for a corner OF'er who's going to be making $14M next year.

Blueprint1
05-02-2003, 01:47 PM
I would have to believe that Maggs is not going anywhere. I think that he is well liked by the Sox and will be here for years to come. I can see other players being traded if the sox are out of it and for good reason too. You all moan about the 97 White Flag trade BUT we were not better than Cleveland that year. We all know that is ture. The players we got rid of pretty much sucked after we got rid of them. We got top prospects taht helped us win the division in 2000. Today not much is left of that trade but thats the way baseball is. I just dont agree that Maggs would be traded even if he will make 14 million next year. JR might get to working on an extension of that contract giving maggs another 4 year contract at 10-12 million and get rid of that last year at fourteen there are a number of ways that the sox could work it out by giving maggs more years and less than fourteen million next year.

34 Inch Stick
05-02-2003, 02:22 PM
hold2dibber says:

I don't see why anyone would attack Lip just because he posted the opinion of someone else. You can disagree with the guy's opinion, but I don't see how Lip did anything wrong for presenting those opinions and subjecting them to discussion. That's exactly what this board is for.


Great! Then my grandma says that Lip's source is full of **** too! :smile:

Dan H
05-02-2003, 04:01 PM
Only time will tell if Lip's source is correct. As far as doomsdayers go, it was Jerry Reinsdorf who gave up and said the Sox couldn't catch the Indians when they were only 3 1/2 out.

People who have attacked so called doomsdayers just want to hear happy talk. The fact is that Sox are only off to a so-so start and this is the third straight season of this. If you really want to get angry at someone, get mad at Jerry Reinsdorf. He is the one who has alienated the Sox fan base, and he has still not delivered a World Series. It is about time he demonstrate he is really serious about putting together a real contending team. I like to be optimistic, too. What I really want is results. Like a World Series.

Brian26
05-02-2003, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by Dan H
People who have attacked so called doomsdayers just want to hear happy talk.

I'm very passionate, as most of us, are about the White Sox. When Lip posts doomsday rumors that the Chairman is going to trade away the franchise player at the All-Star Break as part of "White Flag - The Sequel", I think it hurts the White Sox bottom-line. Why would you want to stir up unfounded rumors like this? Doesn't crap like this hurt the attendance and fanbase? It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. All because some people here have a bizarre, romantic notion that Bill Veeck was the greatest owner of all time. Get real. Veeck was 10-times the cheapskate that Reinsdorf is, without the education or business savvy.

Randar68
05-02-2003, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Thanks for backing me up on this one, Voodoo. At some point, you have to draw the line with this stuff. I don't care what Lip's track record is, I don't want to see this doomsday rumor crap posted because of some sort of weird ego-trip or personal vendetta against Reinsdorf. It's strange because it is the 2nd time I've seen him post this exact story.

You must not read this board very often. This tripe is once-a-week material.

I appreciate the interviews and such that Lip does, but the way and tone of EVERY one of his posts on the board is like this. I stopped reading it because it is the same recycled garbage over and over.

Why do you think Lip finds it a requirement to post some media department manager's opinion. Like a newsroom or equivalent manager has the time to have inside information or to closely follow a situation as such is ludicrous. If he has enough time on his hands to have an overly informed opinion with info to back it up, then he isn't doing his job.

Lip posts other peoples' opinions, often from media heads or unnamed sources because he doesn't have an ounce of originality in him.


PRINT IT!

Randar68
05-02-2003, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

That is the entire point of all of his posts. If you predict it long enough and it eventually happens, you tout yourself as some sort of prophet.

He would be in heaven.

Lip Man 1
05-03-2003, 12:06 AM
Folks:

A few points to clear up some "misconceptions."

1.) I did not start this thread to be "negative."

2.) I did not start this thread to shout "look who I know." Unlike some folks in the media I'm not an egomaniac.

3.) I read speculation on the WSI boards the day before I asked my friend his thoughts on Colon. Obviously others have thought the same thing. Why didn't they drawn the same attck?

4.) Just because my friend isn't currently writing a column or is a beat writer does NOT mean he doesn't contact the Sox on a daily basis. Something none of us does. He also did cover the Sox in the past.

5.) I posted what I did for discussion purposes. If you don't like it, don't read it. But ignoring the problems does not make them go away. I expect better out of Sox fans then the "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" attitude of the Cubs.

6.) What my friend had to say about the possible date of Manuel's firing, of how he thought the Sox could still win the division and his opinion that Reinsdorf despite this chance would agree to a fire sale are all new . His opinion that he would agree with Reinsdorf in this case is new . The only "old" news is him again stating that Mags is going to be traded. What I left out was that he said he thought it was a good chance that Colon and Maggs could be traded to the same team to increase the value of what the Sox got in return.

Like all of you (only to a lesser extent) I was fooled into thinking this team would be going places. I picked them for 88 wins and 2nd place. Right now that looks like it will be hard to get.

The Sox seemingly have tried everything (on a limited basis) to change their luck...they've fired managers, replaced GM's, traded vets for prospects, acquired pitchers, traded for pitchers, built up a good hitting lineup, spent taxpayer money on fixing the ballpark and NOTHING has worked.

"It's Time," to gut the organization from the top down and start over completely... wipe the slate clean and see if anything changes. White Sox history has shown that half assed measures do not work.

Just my opinion

Lip

fuzzy_patters
05-03-2003, 01:29 AM
Lip made a huge mistake here. He brought up the White Flag Trade, which was not really similar to this trade Maggs scenario. So, some of us have a hard time believing that JR is capable of this, but he HAS done it before. The problem is that Lip used the wrong example. He should have used 1989.

Prior to Frank Thomas, who was the last player to have the popularity of Maggs? I would have to say it was Harold Baines. Who honestly believed Harold would ever be traded from the White Sox in 1989? Wasn't he destined to retire as a Sox? The Sox traded him anyway. So you see, JR has done this before. This kind of move is not unprecedented.

Normally, I try to remain positive, and I normally disagree with the pessimists on this board. However, this scenario rang all to true to me because I have seen this before. One month before my eleventh birthday the Sox took away my hero. I guess it must have been emotionally scarring because I still remember listening to the radio when the trade was announced 14 years ago. If they do this again, I cannot imagine many fans torturing themselves by continuing to chear for this team. If they do this, Reinsdorf must go.

Dan H
05-03-2003, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
I'm very passionate, as most of us, are about the White Sox. When Lip posts doomsday rumors that the Chairman is going to trade away the franchise player at the All-Star Break as part of "White Flag - The Sequel", I think it hurts the White Sox bottom-line. Why would you want to stir up unfounded rumors like this? Doesn't crap like this hurt the attendance and fanbase? It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. All because some people here have a bizarre, romantic notion that Bill Veeck was the greatest owner of all time. Get real. Veeck was 10-times the cheapskate that Reinsdorf is, without the education or business savvy.

The only thing that would hurt the bottom line is if another white flag type trade actually happened. As far as hurting the fan base, Jerry Reinsdorf has already done that.

I don't understand what Bill Veeck has to do with this. He has been dead for almost 20 years. I didn't like many things Veeck did either, but bringing up his memory seems to be a big problem for Reinsdorf and his supporters.

But let's forget the speculation for a moment. Since the beginning of 2001, the Sox have played 353 games. They are a whopping five games over .500 in that period. Just why are we having such large expectations for this team?

I would like to see the White Sox go on a long winning streak and give us something great to speculate about. It would also be great to see this team step up to the higher echelon of the American League. It won't happen with the type of baserunning and defense they had last night.

voodoochile
05-03-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by Dan H
The only thing that would hurt the bottom line is if another white flag type trade actually happened. As far as hurting the fan base, Jerry Reinsdorf has already done that.

I don't understand what Bill Veeck has to do with this. He has been dead for almost 20 years. I didn't like many things Veeck did either, but bringing up his memory seems to be a big problem for Reinsdorf and his supporters.

But let's forget the speculation for a moment. Since the beginning of 2001, the Sox have played 353 games. They are a whopping five games over .500 in that period. Just why are we having such large expectations for this team?

I would like to see the White Sox go on a long winning streak and give us something great to speculate about. It would also be great to see this team step up to the higher echelon of the American League. It won't happen with the type of baserunning and defense they had last night.

I don't think optimism was out of line for this season. Heck, even Lip picked them to win 88 games. It isn't hard (in retrospect) to see why the Sox struggled these past few years and that rampant optimism for them was out of line, but the Sox have several proven hitters, two top of the rotation guys, depth at starting pitching and in the bullpen, and some good young players who are actually performing. It wasn't difficult to predict that Wright and Garland would both be better than last season when they showed flashes but were inconsistent.

The offense has been horrible and the deep, veteran bullpen has been downright bad, but those aren't something that on the surface seemed like weaknesses nor should they now simply because they have started slowly.

The fact is that this Sox team has as much depth and talent as any I can remember since 1994 (and personally, I think this year's starting pitching is better). The question is will they find a way to harness that talent and actually do something good or will they be content to sit back and watch it fade away? The only thing they seem to lack is a sense of "team" and a killer instinct, which is exactly why so many fans are done with JM. It is his job to instill those emotions in the team and he has failed miserably to date...

doogiec
05-04-2003, 03:35 PM
I think its important to remember that the White Sox have maintained a tight lipped attitude with the media to the point that even a legitimate media source is probably guessing. While many teams regularly leak information to the media (remember reading about virtually every available player being pursued by the Cubs last winter?) virtually every significant move made by the Sox the last several years has been a surprise (Colon, Ritchie, Wells, Lofton, Belle etc). I don't think "inside media info" even exists with this team. The Cubs get more print during the offseason because they offer information to the media, mostly info they want printed of course.

By the way, I do believe it is inevitable the White Sox will trade a corner outfielder once Borchard is deemed ready to play on a daily basis in Chicago. I have heard from too many directions that Borchard is more suited to a corner at the MLB level. But I'd bet Lee is the one to go.

Tragg
05-04-2003, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by daver
This a democratic board,he has as much right to post as much as you do,and he does back his opinion with knowledge that is not attainable to most fans.

I agree - everyone has the right to post. And I found Lip's post interesting.
Let's not mischaracterize it - Lip posted an opinion - the opinion of someone in the media, but an opinion nonetheless. .

JUGGERNAUT
05-04-2003, 07:39 PM
but the most realistic thing I read involved 2 very significant events that will make it hard for JR to trade Maggs or Colon if they are near all-star numbers:
1) The SOX host the all-star game.
2) The new US Cellular Field deal.

To set the franchise back at this particular time would border on financial suicide. Now if both of them aren't putting up all-star #'s then it changes everything.

However; I believe they will & that makes the decision a no-decision.

Right now of all the players I expect to be traded, Konerko's likely to be the one. It's a near lock he'll have another all-star June, and that would make him very easy to ship along with his 24mil contract. I believe Lee will be signable
to a 3yr that pays less than 5mil a yr on avg so I think he'll be staying. Daubach would take over at 1B, until they have a suitable replacement.