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View Full Version : When nobody is hitting over .300 in the whole lineup


SoxxoS
05-01-2003, 02:09 AM
There is a very, very simple solution.

Acquire Royce Clayton

OK, not that, but:

:fireward


The guy needs to go. Let's start a pool in this thread to predict which day Ward will get canned. I'll start-

May 6th.

Please reply with the date you think Gary Ward will get fired-

Hangar18
05-01-2003, 11:30 AM
may 5, 2003, him and JM

CHISOXFAN13
05-01-2003, 11:35 AM
Are we going to fire and hire a new batting coach every year??

Let's start another poll and pick the date that WSI posters will call for the new batting coach's head. I say one day after he's hired.

WinningUgly!
05-01-2003, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Are we going to fire and hire a new batting coach every year??

Let's start another poll and pick the date that WSI posters will call for the new batting coach's head. I say one day after he's hired. LOL! :)

I don't think anybody on last year's Twins hit better than .300 & they managed to win 94 games.

lowesox
05-01-2003, 12:28 PM
April 31 -- When was the last time we scored an acceptable amount of runs?


Baines isn't the solution either. Lets get somebody proven.

Paulwny
05-01-2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Lets get somebody proven.

Ah, now this may cost some $$$, not in JR's vocabulary.

SoxxoS
05-01-2003, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Are we going to fire and hire a new batting coach every year??

Let's start another poll and pick the date that WSI posters will call for the new batting coach's head. I say one day after he's hired.

Well, since Jerry Manuel has been with us for 6 seasons, which is second in the majors in terms of a manager with one team, that argument doesn't hold much water.

Don't you realize we have one of the best offenses in baseball (based on past production) and EVERY player is or has been in a slump? Shouldn't the guy allegedly fixing these guys problems be to blame?

baggio202
05-01-2003, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Well, since Jerry Manuel has been with us for 6 seasons, which is second in the majors in terms of a manager with one team, that argument doesn't hold much water.

Don't you realize we have one of the best offenses in baseball (based on past production) and EVERY player is or has been in a slump? Shouldn't the guy allegedly fixing these guys problems be to blame?

how can we have one of the best offenses in baseball when we 4 guys on the field that have never completed one full major league season as starters???..plus we have very little speed and no left handed power outside of valentin who is our number 2 hitter..

wecame into ths season with an unproven offense...and its proving to be offensive... to the fans

TheBigHurt
05-01-2003, 02:40 PM
HOPEFULLY today.....BUT ill say July 6 (right before the all-star) game

Iwritecode
05-01-2003, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
how can we have one of the best offenses in baseball when we 4 guys on the field that have never completed one full major league season as starters???

Olivo, Jiminez, Daubach & Rowand???

It is possible to field a complete team of "veterans" on any given day. Considering that until recently Jiminez was making us say "Ray who?", Crede has shown that he's at least average on offense and the past performances of guys like Thomas, Konerko, Maggs and Lee, I'd have to say we have a pretty strong lineup. The fact that the entire team seems to be in a hitting slump right now makes it hard to see.

baggio202
05-01-2003, 03:27 PM
none of these 4 , crede , jimenez , rowand , olivo have ever completed one full season as a starter in the majors (which is defined by baseball as getting a minimum of 502 plate appearances in a season)..my point is how can anyone think we had one of the best offense in baseball when 44% of the offense had huge question marks???..we had potential to have a very dangerous line up if those 4 players all produced to their ceiling..but what were the odds of that happening???...

jimenez made us say "ray who".....anyone who said that should have definately known better...durham did it here for 7 years and was an all star...jimenez got hot for 3 weeks and now is coming back to earth and will be lucky to finish the season hitting 260 and having his teammates still speaking to him...jimenez is an unproven quantity with alot of baggage

crede , i dont know , i thought he was the strongest of the 4 question marks coming into this season..i hope this slump he is in is just that and he breaks out of it soon and not a sign of another overhyped prospect...is he more like robin ventura or chris snopek???..time will tell

rowand...omg...nevermind

olivo..despite his lack of hitting im probably most impressed with...his arm is all that it was advertised to be..his all out attitude is great for a cacther and he seems to have the ability to make things happen....plus im of the mind set that any offense from a catcher is a bonus....big reason why i hated giving up on MJ..and MO /MJ platoon would have been fine with me..

voodoochile
05-01-2003, 03:48 PM
Crede's swing seems to be getting longer again, IMO. Which means he is going to have trouble unless he can get back to a more compact swing.

For anyone to pass judgement on Jimenez is a reach, IMO. The guy has been our most consistent hitter this season between his plate discipline and his ability to hit for average. He may be having a rough stretch of it recently, but there is NO reason to believe he won't come out of it, IMO. Some of his problems have been hitting the ball right at people recently. He has had several line drives that were right at an infielder or outfielder.

Rowand just isn't that good. They should play Rios until Borchard is ready. Of course with Jerry on the bench, that won't happen.

Olivo looks much better after his early season struggles, but he is just so young from a hitting perspective. Crede and Jimenez both had several years in the minors, but Olivo hasn't hit above AA before this season. That is a big jump he will probably be hot and cold and hopefully not get into a funk because of his struggles.

baggio202
05-01-2003, 04:12 PM
voodoo...but isnt it also a reach to say jimenez has made us all say "ray who"???

voodoochile
05-01-2003, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
voodoo...but isnt it also a reach to say jimenez has made us all say "ray who"???

I liked Ray. I was a Ray supporter. Still, I like Jimenez equally well or more so because of the range he brings on defense. If he can get over his Manny-Trillo-esque slowness in getting the ball to first base, he has the makings of a mainstay in the Sox infield for years to come. He doesn't give up much offensively to Ray either and most of that in power - which is not what most of us are looking for in a leadoff hitter.

It will take time to truly evaluate the new kid, but he has gotten off to a great start.

baggio202
05-01-2003, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I liked Ray. I was a Ray supporter. Still, I like Jimenez equally well or more so because of the range he brings on defense. If he can get over his Manny-Trillo-esque slowness in getting the ball to first base, he has the makings of a mainstay in the Sox infield for years to come. He doesn't give up much offensively to Ray either and most of that in power - which is not what most of us are looking for in a leadoff hitter.

It will take time to truly evaluate the new kid, but he has gotten off to a great start.

doesnt jimenez lack the speed to be a lead off man iyo???

Daver
05-01-2003, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
doesnt jimenez lack the speed to be a lead off man iyo???

Jerry wouldn't use it even if he had it,so what difference does it make?

pudge
05-01-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
how can we have one of the best offenses in baseball when we 4 guys on the field that have never completed one full major league season as starters???..plus we have very little speed and no left handed power outside of valentin who is our number 2 hitter..

wecame into ths season with an unproven offense...and its proving to be offensive... to the fans

Holy cow, now we have an "unproven" offense??? This is a total joke... everyone and their mothers were touting the Sox offense going into this season, to call it "unproven" is laughable. Okay, so we have a couple rookies in the lineup, few teams don't.

Gary Ward has been a problem for a while, mainly because a lot of the players don't like him. Frank won't even listen to him. I don't know where we can find a hitting coach who commands respect, but we need to try.

jeremyb1
05-01-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
none of these 4 , crede , jimenez , rowand , olivo have ever completed one full season as a starter in the majors (which is defined by baseball as getting a minimum of 502 plate appearances in a season)..my point is how can anyone think we had one of the best offense in baseball when 44% of the offense had huge question marks???..we had potential to have a very dangerous line up if those 4 players all produced to their ceiling..but what were the odds of that happening???...

that may be true but crede and jimenez were amongst our best hitters ealier on. the problem with your reasoning is it completely sidesteps the fact that konerko, lee, thomas, and maggs haven't hit particularly well. its not as though those four are dominating and the rest of our lineup is dragging them down. those four players have combined to hit .253 on the season. we're talking about a former two time mvp, a perennial mvp candidate, an all-star last season, and a huge breakout candidate.

there's no way you can start to point fingers elsewhere until those guys start hitting. its not like most teams are getting a ton of production out of the bottom of their order and we're not. we need our best hitters to swing the bats.

voodoochile
05-01-2003, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
doesnt jimenez lack the speed to be a lead off man iyo???

Speed is the secondary consideration. Ideally you want a guy with an OBP around .400 and great speed, but the more important part of that is the OBP. Yankees have won a whole mess of championships recently without a burner at the top of the lineup. In fact they go station to station on a regular basis and have no problem winning.

lowesox
05-01-2003, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
doesnt jimenez lack the speed to be a lead off man iyo???

Baggio, are you trying really hard to find fault in every player on this team? Why rant about how every player who's not a proven veteran sucks.

Crede is all of a sudden overhyped because he goes into one slump? Please.

The yankees spend millions to buy winning teams, veteran players and fans like you. Maybe you should consider switching over.

baggio202
05-01-2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Baggio, are you trying really hard to find fault in every player on this team? Why rant about how every player who's not a proven veteran sucks.

Crede is all of a sudden overhyped because he goes into one slump? Please.

The yankees spend millions to buy winning teams, veteran players and fans like you. Maybe you should consider switching over.

maybe , you should try and copmprehend what i said..i was responding to a poster who said we have one of the best offenses in baseball...my response was how could anyone, before the season started (because thats what he was talking about) say wehad one of the best offenses in baseball when 44% of the line up hasnt proven a thing in the major leagues yet???..is that way out of line..

also you convienently left out the part where i said if these guys live up to their ceiling we would have a very good offense

jeremyb1
05-01-2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
maybe , you should try and copmprehend what i said..i was responding to a poster who said we have one of the best offenses in baseball...my response was how could anyone, before the season started (because thats what he was talking about) say wehad one of the best offenses in baseball when 44% of the line up hasnt proven a thing in the major leagues yet???..is that way out of line..

also you convienently left out the part where i said if these guys live up to their ceiling we would have a very good offense

it is my opinion that the strength of most offenses is predicated on the strength of the middle of a teams lineup and the ability of the players at the top of the lineup to get on base, not the strength of a lineup 1-9. the guys you're mentioning are crede, olivo, rowand, and jimenez. although jimenez has struggling late, he's done exactly what we've needed so far this season by getting on base quite frequently at the top of the lineup. the other three guys bat 7-8-9. additionally, rowand and olvio have split time with alomar and rios quite evenly.

with the exception of the yankees very few teams have strong 7-8-9 hitters. texas one of the best hitting teams in baseball has texiera, an "unproven rookie", diaz, and michael young. anaheim has benjie molina, scott speizio, and eric owens. these guys are not strong hitters. we have four all star calliber players in the middle of our lineup who should all be more than capable of hitting .280 30 100 in an offseason and they're all struggling terribly right now, hence the offense is struggling.

lowesox
05-01-2003, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
jimenez will be lucky to finish the season hitting 260 and having his teammates still speaking to him

...crede...i hope this is not a sign of another overhyped...prospect

...rowand...omg...nevermind


You're taking a piece out of 1/3 of our starting lineup. Based on your impatience, I would assume you have a problem with every other WhiteSox player currently in a slump, or who's numbers haven't yet rebounded fully from a recent slump.

Why even support this team?