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View Full Version : I am sick of you Rowmyboat go somewhere like Charlotte


TheBigHurt
04-30-2003, 11:04 PM
:angry: :angry: :angry: THE mood of this post...UNFORANTELY

ROWMYBOATI(Rowand) after another terrible game toknight 0-3 and a K, your BA is now 125....I really dont know what im going to do if i see that dam Tinker-roo start you....I am completely sick and tired of watching/hearing you.....PLEASE go somewhere find a new hobby....SON (Rowmyboat) go fishin with Tinker-roo ..WE need to start Rois I know he is a below average CF, but he is better then that dam Rowmyboat.....I personally would be happy if we bring up Wee Wee Willie up I'm not sure how you guys feel about this.....TINKER-ROO better not start Rowmyboat ever again....THEN again what the hell am I going to do if he does.....ROWMYBOAT I think you need to take a trip to Charlotte...I hear they have a new Amusement park and a good NBA team

BE GOOD folks, sorry for all this anger which i usually don't have , but maybe we need anger to bring up wee wee willie

EDIT: I cant think of a starting CF that is worse then Rowmyboat in the Majors.....AND the sad part is I tried.....

jeremyb1
04-30-2003, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by TheBigHurt
:angry: :angry: :angry: THE mood of this post...UNFORANTELY

ROWMYBOATI(Rowand) after another terrible game toknight 0-3 and a K, your BA is now 125....I really dont know what im going to do if i see that dam Tinker-roo start you....I am completely sick and tired of watching/hearing you.....PLEASE go somewhere find a new hobby....SON (Rowmyboat) go fishin with Tinker-roo ..WE need to start Rois I know he is a below average CF, but he is better then that dam Rowmyboat.....I personally would be happy if we bring up Wee Wee Willie up I'm not sure how you guys feel about this.....TINKER-ROO better not start Rowmyboat ever again....THEN again what the hell am I going to do if he does.....ROWMYBOAT I think you need to take a trip to Charlotte...I hear they have a new Amusement park and a good NBA team

BE GOOD folks, sorry for all this anger which i usually don't have , but maybe we need anger to bring up wee wee willie

that's fine but replacing our struggling 9th place hitter isn' t going to be a quick fix for us. we have two regulars hitting over .280. no one is hitting the ball right now. rowand may be the worst but he's certainly not the root of our problems.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-30-2003, 11:15 PM
How soon would it be safe to bring Borchard up to play CF? I'm scared to death of Willie Harris patrolling center field.

Daver
04-30-2003, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
How soon would it be safe to bring Borchard up to play CF? I'm scared to death of Willie Harris patrolling center field.

Your not alone,and now would be just fine. :redneck

TheBigHurt
04-30-2003, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by daver
Your not alone,and now would be just fine. :redneck

AS much as I like Wee Wee Willie Borchard is our future CF...SO i cant think of a better time to bring him up

Lip Man 1
04-30-2003, 11:41 PM
Come on guys...lay off Rowand .

Remember he works cheap! (you were expecting the Sox to get someone the caliber of Bernie Williams or Jim Edmonds?)

Lip

konerkopeachy
04-30-2003, 11:45 PM
This is baseball...not a shirtwaist factory.

TheBigHurt
04-30-2003, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by konerkopeachy
This is baseball...not a shirtwaist factory.

:?:

MHOUSE
05-01-2003, 12:00 AM
:angry: Lay off of Rowand. He knows that he's underachieving at the plate and he's frustrated. Did anyone see how happy he was after that RBI hit last night? He's trying to work out of it just give the kid a chance, don't boo him and blow his confidence. We have an entire lineup that's not hitting and I would be far more worried about Frank, Maggs, Paulie, Carlos not hitting than the #8 hitter. Maybe it is time for Borchard, but it's also time for the whole team to step up, don't take it all out on Aaron.

Daver
05-01-2003, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
:angry: Lay off of Rowand. He knows that he's underachieving at the plate and he's frustrated. Did anyone see how happy he was after that RBI hit last night? He's trying to work out of it just give the kid a chance, don't boo him and blow his confidence. We have an entire lineup that's not hitting and I would be far more worried about Frank, Maggs, Paulie, Carlos not hitting than the #8 hitter. Maybe it is time for Borchard, but it's also time for the whole team to step up, don't take it all out on Aaron.

You have a problem with people realizing that Aaron Rowand should not be on a MLB roster?

Do the math,career minor leaguer.

TheBigHurt
05-01-2003, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by daver
You have a problem with people realizing that Aaron Rowand should not be on a MLB roster?

Do the math,career minor leaguer.

YEAH, daver i couldnt agree more and as I saif I cant think of a worse starting CF then Rowmyboat

BE GOOD

Hullett_Fan
05-01-2003, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by daver
You have a problem with people realizing that Aaron Rowand should not be on a MLB roster?

Do the math,career minor leaguer.

That's exactly it...he's not Major League caliber and never will be. But, I'd be his biggest fan if he was on the Schaumburg Flyers or Gary Railcats because he hustles like no one else on our pathetic excuse of a roster.

Procol Harum
05-01-2003, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by daver
You have a problem with people realizing that Aaron Rowand should not be on a MLB roster?

Do the math,career minor leaguer.

Probably dead-on--at best a backup on a good team. If this was a top-notch World Series contender we could afford Rowand as a late-inning defensive replacement in the outfield or as an occassional give-em-a-rest guy. But given the contours of the rest of this outfit no way can we afford to have him turning a slot in the batting order into a black hole.

ScottyTheSoxFan
05-01-2003, 11:40 AM
please dont call him rowmyboat. that is about as bad as his playing has been.

Iguana775
05-01-2003, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by TheBigHurt
Wee Wee Willie Borchard

is this a new guy?? did we just combine Joe and Willie in to one person?? lol.

but yea, i think JB should be called up soon. not like he could do any worse.

Randar68
05-01-2003, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by Hullett_Fan
That's exactly it...he's not Major League caliber and never will be. But, I'd be his biggest fan if he was on the Schaumburg Flyers or Gary Railcats because he hustles like no one else on our pathetic excuse of a roster.


Where were all you people when Daver and I had to fight off the Fans of Crash onslought all off-season? :D:

On a similar note, where have the throngs FOC club-members gone?

Paulwny
05-01-2003, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Where were all you people when Daver and I had to fight off the Fans of Crash onslought all off-season? :D:

On a similar note, where have the throngs FOC club-members gone?

How about the fans of "Mr. Versatile" ?

Randar68
05-01-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
How about the fans of "Mr. Versatile" ?

Well he hasn't played much and has yet to definitively proven to everyone in existence his career minor-leaguer abilities.

Most people use offensive stats or errors and the like to evaluate a player's performance. There are some aspects of the game that are not measureable by cold/hard statistics, so people just ignore them.

Outside of people in the business, few people realize or appreciate the value of game-calling skills. So, when supporting their case for Mr. Versatile, many choose to ignore the fact that he is flat-out clueless behind the plate as popycock.

I can't believe I actually read someone on this board suggest he could play 3rd base. Unreal.

Daver
05-01-2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Where were all you people when Daver and I had to fight off the Fans of Crash onslought all off-season? :D:

On a similar note, where have the throngs FOC club-members gone?

Their in Cooperstown building the Aaron Rowand wing.

TheBigHurt
05-01-2003, 02:37 PM
WELL, so far only 2 people hate his nickname, Rowmyboat

Unregistered
05-01-2003, 02:44 PM
Nah, that nickname sucks. Not really clever and actually more syllables than his actual name.

BTW your official ''pointless post'' total is 8 today so far... :D:

TheBigHurt
05-01-2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered
Nah, that nickname sucks. Not really clever and actually more syllables than his actual name.

BTW your official ''pointless post'' total is 8 today so far... :D:

WOW did i just get ripped from a fellow NY guy?

I think you mean Pointless Posts, cause you said 8

BE GOOD

Unregistered
05-01-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by TheBigHurt
WOW did i just get ripped from a fellow NY guy?

I think you mean Pointless Posts, cause you said 8

BE GOOD Just good natured ribbing, Long Island... :D:
(and I think it's "Post" singular when preceding the word "total")

TheBigHurt
05-01-2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered
(and I think it's "Post" singular when preceding the word "total") :?:

SIMPILAR terms please

BE GOOD

Unregistered
05-01-2003, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by TheBigHurt
:?:

SIMPILAR terms please

BE GOOD I said (roughly) "your pointless post total is now at 8", to which you replied that I should have said "your pointless posts total" because it was more than one. All I'm saying is that by adding the word "total", "pointless posts" can be singular, and "total" pluralizes it by nature.

For example, you wouldn't say "Home Runs Hitter" or "Strikeouts Total", you'd say "Home Run Hitter", etc.

Now as this discussion quickly approaches parking lot material, my "Pointless Post" Total has exceeded the quota for the day. :D:

MHOUSE
05-01-2003, 05:08 PM
Rowmyboat is a bad nickname. Make that 4 people who don't like it. Rowand hustles and goes hard everyday which I can't say for most of our 25-man roster.

jeremyb1
05-01-2003, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by daver
You have a problem with people realizing that Aaron Rowand should not be on a MLB roster?

Do the math,career minor leaguer.

its one thing to just spew rhetoric like that but its meaningless if you don't back it up. to say a guy isn't a fifth outfielder in the majors is to say he's pretty poor.

we're talking about a player with strong showings in birmingham and charlotte at 22 and 23 respectively. he then came up and showed good plate discipline, played solid d, and hit well in '01. he hit .280 after he received regular playing time last season.

you're taking absolutely no facts into account when making your comments other than that rowand hasn't hit well this year and his overall numbers aren't very good last year and you're frustrated. in find these comments to be real cheap shots when the guy is hitting .130 and everyone is frustrated about the team's performance. of course no one is going to defend a guy hitting .130 on a struggling ball club. that doesn't mean you have to bash him and start calling him a career minor leaguer.

Randar68
05-01-2003, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
its one thing to just spew rhetoric like that but its meaningless if you don't back it up. to say a guy isn't a fifth outfielder in the majors is to say he's pretty poor.

we're talking about a player with strong showings in birmingham and charlotte at 22 and 23 respectively. he then came up and showed good plate discipline, played solid d, and hit well in '01. he hit .280 after he received regular playing time last season.

you're taking absolutely no facts into account when making your comments other than that rowand hasn't hit well this year and his overall numbers aren't very good last year and you're frustrated. in find these comments to be real cheap shots when the guy is hitting .130 and everyone is frustrated about the team's performance. of course no one is going to defend a guy hitting .130 on a struggling ball club. that doesn't mean you have to bash him and start calling him a career minor leaguer.


Rowand never was much of a hitter in the minors except for a breakout year at AA. He has never taken walks or had a good OBP or an overwhelming average. He played LF in all of the minors until he came up to Chicago and we needed a CF'er. He has a weak arm and weaker footwork and ball judgement.

What do you people need for proof? I am sorry there is no Papal Doctrine to rely on. Watch him play, he does not belong on a MLB roster.

End of story. If you want facts, look at his season-by-season minor league numbers. Now look at his MLB numbers. This is not going to get better. Rowand is not MLB talent.

Randar68
05-01-2003, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
its one thing to just spew rhetoric like that but its meaningless if you don't back it up. to say a guy isn't a fifth outfielder in the majors is to say he's pretty poor.

we're talking about a player with strong showings in birmingham and charlotte at 22 and 23 respectively. he then came up and showed good plate discipline, played solid d, and hit well in '01. he hit .280 after he received regular playing time last season.

you're taking absolutely no facts into account when making your comments other than that rowand hasn't hit well this year and his overall numbers aren't very good last year and you're frustrated. in find these comments to be real cheap shots when the guy is hitting .130 and everyone is frustrated about the team's performance. of course no one is going to defend a guy hitting .130 on a struggling ball club. that doesn't mean you have to bash him and start calling him a career minor leaguer.

BTW, we've been calling him a "Career Minor Leaguer" for 2 seasons. This has nothing to do with frustration and everything to do with the fact that Aaron Rowand can't hit his weight or play even average defensive CF.

jeremyb1
05-01-2003, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Rowand never was much of a hitter in the minors except for a breakout year at AA. He has never taken walks or had a good OBP or an overwhelming average. He played LF in all of the minors until he came up to Chicago and we needed a CF'er. He has a weak arm and weaker footwork and ball judgement.

What do you people need for proof? I am sorry there is no Papal Doctrine to rely on. Watch him play, he does not belong on a MLB roster.

End of story. If you want facts, look at his season-by-season minor league numbers. Now look at his MLB numbers. This is not going to get better. Rowand is not MLB talent.

rowand didn't put up spectacular numbers in the minors but many hitters don't. borchard has never hit over .280 at any level yet he's still one of the top prospects in baseball because of his skills. rowand was a mainstay on our top ten prospects list and displayed strong tools in the minors. he absolutely does not have a weak arm. he lacks accuracy at times but has a strong arm, one much stronger than kenny lofton last year. its not hard to find scouting reports that cite that fact.

comments such as "watch him play" aren't exactly compelling arguments. unless you doubt the fact that i've ever seen rowand play before or that i'm aware of his statistics that's basically saying "no i'm correct. just watch him". obviously i've seen rowand play and i disagree with you that we can be certain he's not a major league calliber player at this time.

you completely ignore my arguments about rowand's accomplishments at the major league level prior to this season. he's had regular playing time in the majors twice before this season: in '01 when he hit .293 and during the second half of last season when he hit .279.

there are 28 teams in major league baseball each of which carry at least two backup outfielders for a total of 56 backup outfielders in baseball. to say a 25 year old with a .252 career batting average is incapable of sticking on a major league roster now or at any point in his career is absolutely ridiculous.

GASHWOUND
05-01-2003, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Rowmyboat is a bad nickname. Make that 4 people who don't like it. Rowand hustles and goes hard everyday which I can't say for most of our 25-man roster.

What the hell does that even mean? rowmyboat? I don't get it
Horrible :?: :o:

TheBigHurt
05-01-2003, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND
What the hell does that even mean? rowmyboat? I don't get it
Horrible :?: :o:

THERE is nothing to get......DAM no one likes it thats 5 now, daver, do you like it????

GASHWOUND
05-01-2003, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by TheBigHurt
:angry: :angry: :angry: THE mood of this post...UNFORANTELY

ROWMYBOATI(Rowand) after another terrible game toknight 0-3 and a K, your BA is now 125....I really dont know what im going to do if i see that dam Tinker-roo start you....I am completely sick and tired of watching/hearing you.....PLEASE go somewhere find a new hobby....SON (Rowmyboat) go fishin with Tinker-roo ..WE need to start Rois I know he is a below average CF, but he is better then that dam Rowmyboat.....I personally would be happy if we bring up Wee Wee Willie up I'm not sure how you guys feel about this.....TINKER-ROO better not start Rowmyboat ever again....THEN again what the hell am I going to do if he does.....ROWMYBOAT I think you need to take a trip to Charlotte...I hear they have a new Amusement park and a good NBA team

BE GOOD folks, sorry for all this anger which i usually don't have , but maybe we need anger to bring up wee wee willie

EDIT: I cant think of a starting CF that is worse then Rowmyboat in the Majors.....AND the sad part is I tried.....


Wow, this is you angry? :?: Note to self, don't get on the bad side of THEBIGHURT :)

TheBigHurt
05-01-2003, 07:15 PM
THE funny part is when people rip our Franchise's best player, (in my opinion) Mr. Hurt and when I and other people defend him they (Anti Hurt club for ex.) get mad....AND if I rip Rowand almost everyone here defends him

BE GOOD

GASHWOUND
05-01-2003, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by TheBigHurt
THE funny part is when people rip our Franchise's best player, (in my opinion) Mr. Hurt and when I and other people defend him they (Anti Hurt club for ex.) get mad....AND if I rip Rowand almost everyone here defends him

BE GOOD

Well, I'm not defending Rowand, he stinks.. But people defend Rowand more cause he's not a big whiner, and doesn't put his foot in his mouth like Frank..

TheBigHurt
05-01-2003, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND
Wow, this is you angry? :?: Note to self, don't get on the bad side of THEBIGHURT :)

LMAO......I don't get angry to often....ONLY(sports wise) yearly with the Dolphins in the winter, with the Knicks and Hoyas and the Sox but since there are many games its hard to get too mad...NON-SPORTS wise its pretty hard to get me mad....I got ran-over once (not serious, and my fault.....WAS helping my friend parallel* park) and wasn't angry and other stuff as well which I didn't get mad...IF you complain about stuff that other people do for you as favors that gets me angry

*ILL admit I used spell-check!!! :)

BE GOOD folks

Randar68
05-01-2003, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
you completely ignore my arguments about rowand's accomplishments at the major league level prior to this season. he's had regular playing time in the majors twice before this season: in '01 when he hit .293 and during the second half of last season when he hit .279.

He had a freak of a 2001 season (in terms of him, anyways) and put up numbers considerably better than even his best minor league numbers. All of this in a WHOPPING 123 AB's. AKA FLUKE .293 avg .385 OBP

In 302 AB's in 2002, He hit .258 with a .298 OBP with 54 K's. Pitchers started figuring him out. Numbers down considerably.

I won't even mention his numbers thus far this year, but they are obviously down again. Seeing a trend?


Originally posted by jeremyb1
there are 28 teams in major league baseball each of which carry at least two backup outfielders for a total of 56 backup outfielders in baseball. to say a 25 year old with a .252 career batting average is incapable of sticking on a major league roster now or at any point in his career is absolutely ridiculous.

Rowands Minor League numbers for his last 3 years: Keep in mind that he came out of College and was older than his competition every step of the way.

1999 Club (22 years old) AVG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB
Winston-Salem (A) ____ .279 512 96 143 37 3 24 88 33 94 15
2000 Club (23 years old) AVG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB
Birmingham (AA) _____ .258 532 80 137 26 5 20 98 38 117 22
2001 Club (24 years old) AVG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB
Charlotte (AAA) ______ .295 329 54 97 28 0 16 48 21 47 8

His best numbers were in a hitters park smaller than any in the majors in 2001 in a little over half a season.



Where are these numbers you keep telling me about that indicate his usefulness on a major league level?

BTW, it doesn't matter if you have a Howitzer of an arm if you can't get your feet in the right position and can't get it anywhere near home plate. Not only that, but his arm strenght is major league average at BEST.

So, keep spouting off about a 25 year old that could barely hit in the minors despite being older than his competition, and how useful he is for a major league team thinking of itself as a contender.

Daver
05-01-2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


So, keep spouting off about a 25 year old that could barely hit in the minors despite being older than his competition, and how useful he is for a major league team thinking of itself as a contender.

You forgot to add Bla.

I'll give you credit it though for reading all that,I don't even bother to read his posts.

:)

jeremyb1
05-01-2003, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
He had a freak of a 2001 season (in terms of him, anyways) and put up numbers considerably better than even his best minor league numbers. All of this in a WHOPPING 123 AB's. AKA FLUKE .293 avg .385 OBP

In 302 AB's in 2002, He hit .258 with a .298 OBP with 54 K's. Pitchers started figuring him out. Numbers down considerably.

I won't even mention his numbers thus far this year, but they are obviously down again. Seeing a trend?

Rowands Minor League numbers for his last 3 years: Keep in mind that he came out of College and was older than his competition every step of the way.

1999 Club (22 years old) AVG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB
Winston-Salem (A) ____ .279 512 96 143 37 3 24 88 33 94 15
2000 Club (23 years old) AVG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB
Birmingham (AA) _____ .258 532 80 137 26 5 20 98 38 117 22
2001 Club (24 years old) AVG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB
Charlotte (AAA) ______ .295 329 54 97 28 0 16 48 21 47 8

His best numbers were in a hitters park smaller than any in the majors in 2001 in a little over half a season.

Where are these numbers you keep telling me about that indicate his usefulness on a major league level?

BTW, it doesn't matter if you have a Howitzer of an arm if you can't get your feet in the right position and can't get it anywhere near home plate. Not only that, but his arm strenght is major league average at BEST.

So, keep spouting off about a 25 year old that could barely hit in the minors despite being older than his competition, and how useful he is for a major league team thinking of itself as a contender.

those are not poor numbers for a prospect. they're not particularly good but they're not so bad. the argument about him being older than the players at every level is ridiculous. now you're going to punish every prospect that played college ball for being too old for their level? its not like he was 25 in AA ball. almost all of your arguments could apply to borchard and he's a top prospect.

you're talking to me about sample sizes yet you're disregarding rowand's entire season in '01, his time in charlotte and the big leagues, and rowand's second half last season. pitchers were "figuring him out" yet he improved from .207 in the first half of last year to .279 in the second half when he was playing regularly. anyway you look at it, rowand has hit .250 in quite a few major league at bats and i don't see how that means that beyond a shadow of the doubt, he's a minor leaguer for the rest of his career.

Randar68
05-01-2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
those are not poor numbers for a prospect. they're not particularly good but they're not so bad. the argument about him being older than the players at every level is ridiculous.

What are you smoking? Can I have some? After spending several years at a Div 1A school playing baseball, it shouldn't take an outfielder taken in the suplemental 1st round 3 years to hit .258 at AA.


Originally posted by jeremyb1
anyway you look at it, rowand has hit .250 in quite a few major league at bats and i don't see how that means that beyond a shadow of the doubt, he's a minor leaguer for the rest of his career.

His whopping .250 is in less than 500 AB's, which is not even equivalent to a full season. That is why I showed you minor league numbers. Charlotte is a bandbox.

This is pointless. You cried about me not using numbers, and then I use them. If all you can do is put up mediocre numbers in high-A as a 22 year old and in AA as a 23 or 24 year old, you are questionable at best.

He not only has no major league power, but he doesn't take walks, he doesn't situationally hit, and as I was reminded watching the game tonight, he can't bunt.

Add these to a varitable set of defensive deficiencies, and you have yourself one terrible major leagplayer.

I've basically spelled it out for you on why he is not a major league player, both statistically and as far as his lack of physical abilities. I can't believe I've wasted this much time and you still won't get it.

I'm through, believe what you want, but you have painter yourself into a corner at this point as far as credibility in evaluating talent/ability/potential.

jeremyb1
05-01-2003, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
What are you smoking? Can I have some? After spending several years at a Div 1A school playing baseball, it shouldn't take an outfielder taken in the suplemental 1st round 3 years to hit .258 at AA

His whopping .250 is in less than 500 AB's, which is not even equivalent to a full season. That is why I showed you minor league numbers. Charlotte is a bandbox.

This is pointless. You cried about me not using numbers, and then I use them. If all you can do is put up mediocre numbers in high-A as a 22 year old and in AA as a 23 or 24 year old, you are questionable at best.

He not only has no major league power, but he doesn't take walks, he doesn't situationally hit, and as I was reminded watching the game tonight, he can't bunt.

Add these to a varitable set of defensive deficiencies, and you have yourself one terrible major leagplayer.

I've basically spelled it out for you on why he is not a major league player, both statistically and as far as his lack of physical abilities. I can't believe I've wasted this much time and you still won't get it.

I'm through, believe what you want, but you have painter yourself into a corner at this point as far as credibility in evaluating talent/ability/potential.

your problem is you're still arguing that rowand is not a starting centerfielder on a championship team while i'm arguing that rowand has not conclusively proven that he does not have a future in the major leagues. there is a huge difference between there and despite the way you make it sound i'm not arguing that aaron rowand is or will be an all-star.

its absurd that you think you're relying upon numbers here. you are relying entirely on two factors, rowand's batting average at AA and his age.

first of all, rowand was not old for the levels he was playing at. like most college players, he played three years of college and then played a season at high A ball, a season at AA, and then less than a full season at AAA because he waranted a promotion to the big leagues. why you think that time frame for promotions relegates someone to a career in the minors is beyond me because its rather standard for college players. joe borchard is 24 and he's still in AAA yet i don't think many people feel that he's a career minor leaguer.

as for rowand's batting averages, the fact that he hit .258 one season in AA is not the kiss of death. that does not mean he can never be a good hitter. good prospects have bad seasons all the time and most good prospects do not hit in the .330s thoughout the minors just because they're good players. most good prospects still only hit .280 to .300 at most levels because they are making adjustments to higher levels of competition as they climb the ladder.

you've presented no argument whatsoever why rowands minor league numbers make him a bad baseball player other than your own opinion. the numerous publications that listed rowand in our top ten prospects throughout his minor league career obviously completely disagree with you.

the most absurd part of your argument is that you continue to disregard garland's entire '01 season and his second half last year becuase you think charlotte is a band box (i wonder why all our players at that level don't hit .300 then if its so easy) and his second half last season because you don't think its a large enough sample size yet we're talking about probably 700 at bats over the last two seasons compared to probably 400 in birmingham in '00 which you're very interested in discussing.

so yeah, you made me cry and proved me wrong and wasted time on me. i'm an idiot. does it feel good?

Randar68
05-01-2003, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
so yeah, you made me cry and proved me wrong and wasted time on me. i'm an idiot. does it feel good?

You didn't have to say it explicitly, you've proven it over and over in this thread.

ScottyTheSoxFan
05-01-2003, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
You didn't have to say it explicitly, you've proven it over and over in this thread.


....and many threads before

jeremyb1
05-01-2003, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by ScottyTheSoxFan
....and many threads before

can't you just feel the love? say what you will about me but i've never made personal attacks on posters here except in self defense. all i do is refute other peoples arguments and for whatever reason - maybe people feel they're losing the argument - they resort to personal attacks and imply that i'm an idiot or a whiner as in the last thread. if i'm so dead wrong, why do you have to say it? shouldn't it be obvious to everyone that i'm losing the argument? why the personal attacks?

lowesox
05-01-2003, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
What are you smoking? Can I have some? After spending several years at a Div 1A school playing baseball, it shouldn't take an outfielder taken in the suplemental 1st round 3 years to hit .258 at AA.




His whopping .250 is in less than 500 AB's, which is not even equivalent to a full season. That is why I showed you minor league numbers. Charlotte is a bandbox.

This is pointless. You cried about me not using numbers, and then I use them. If all you can do is put up mediocre numbers in high-A as a 22 year old and in AA as a 23 or 24 year old, you are questionable at best.

He not only has no major league power, but he doesn't take walks, he doesn't situationally hit, and as I was reminded watching the game tonight, he can't bunt.

Add these to a varitable set of defensive deficiencies, and you have yourself one terrible major leagplayer.

I've basically spelled it out for you on why he is not a major league player, both statistically and as far as his lack of physical abilities. I can't believe I've wasted this much time and you still won't get it.

I'm through, believe what you want, but you have painter yourself into a corner at this point as far as credibility in evaluating talent/ability/potential.


This is a ridiculous argument. Rowand is definitely a major league player. He's been considered a top prospect through the minors, and in his time as a major leaguer had stints where he's been very good. He plays good D and plays harder than anybody else on this team. The problem is WhiteSOx fans require immediate production. When Borchard gets here all of the fickle fans will soon hate him too. It seems that nobody on this site understands that it sometimes takes a couple years to really come into your own.

Daver
05-01-2003, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
This is a ridiculous argument. Rowand is definitely a major league player. He's been considered a top prospect through the minors, and in his time as a major leaguer had stints where he's been very good. He plays good D and plays harder than anybody else on this team. The problem is WhiteSOx fans require immediate production. When Borchard gets here all of the fickle fans will soon hate him too. It seems that nobody on this site understands that it sometimes takes a couple years to really come into your own.

The problem is the fact that he has never done anything that would put him in a category above fourth outfielder on a decent team,and he is proving that to the world right now.

TheBigHurt
05-01-2003, 11:39 PM
MY goodness look what I started

BE GOOD

Randar68
05-02-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
can't you just feel the love? say what you will about me but i've never made personal attacks on posters here except in self defense. all i do is refute other peoples arguments and for whatever reason - maybe people feel they're losing the argument - they resort to personal attacks and imply that i'm an idiot or a whiner as in the last thread. if i'm so dead wrong, why do you have to say it? shouldn't it be obvious to everyone that i'm losing the argument? why the personal attacks?


How many ways can you say the same thing? Seems it takes you 1000 words to say the same thing you did 2 posts ago. Writing in volume does not equate to intelligence, proof of fact, or any other measure of validity.

I am tired of arguing the point. The only 2 reasons Aaron Rowand has ever been on a top 10 list are:
1) Supplemental 1st round pick
2) Sox lack of positional prospects over the past 5 years.

Being a top prospect in the past does not make you a good player or prospect years later. Rowand is a scrub, and I have presented the facts and physical evidence.

The FOC choose to ignore the evidence in blind ignorance and faith. So be it, but you position doesn't hold water. Good defense??? pulease.

maurice
05-02-2003, 02:56 PM
Just to break up the dogpiling on jeremy, I'll make two quick points before ducking and running for cover:

- Regarding Rowand's arm, the combination of strength and accuracy is AT LEAST major league average. Heck, it looks like he's ranked third in the AL in outfield assists in pretty limited action this season and has 11 over his major league career, despite only 124 starts. Jeremy also is correct that a number of scouts have said that Rowand has a good arm.

- At least one of the folks criticizing jeremy's position that Rowand is at least a 5th OF on a major league team has repeatedly referred to Rowand as a 4th OF (http://) on a major league team:

I do like him,as a fourth outfielder. . . . his arm is slightly above average . . . .

Randar68
05-02-2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by maurice
Just to break up the dogpiling on jeremy, I'll make two quick points before ducking and running for cover:

- Regarding Rowand's arm, the combination of strength and accuracy is AT LEAST major league average. Heck, it looks like he's ranked third in the AL in outfield assists in pretty limited action this season and has 11 over his major league career, despite only 124 starts. Jeremy also is correct that a number of scouts have said that Rowand has a good arm.

- At least one of the folks criticizing jeremy's position that Rowand is at least a 5th OF on a major league team has repeatedly referred to Rowand as a 4th OF (http://) on a major league team:


At one point midway through last season, Carlos lead all Left fielders in baseball in assists. Does that mean he has an above average arm? It's a bit hard to judge when everyone and their brother is running on you because the scouting report around baseball says you can't throw. Terrance Long ran back to the bag and still tagged up on Rowand, who made a simple play into an extravaganza with his leaping to get the ball because it was so misgudged. To be fair, he had him if Jose makes a good throw, but that's besides the point. Long doesn't even try it if he is behind the ball and in position to make a throw. Rowand may have a great arm in practice, but in the game, when he has to move to get the ball, he never sets up properly and his footwork is terrible. This causes his throws to go halfway up one line or the other most of the time.

With Rowand's versatility, aka, he can "play" all the OF positions, he may have a little value as a 4th outfielder. However, he should not be a platoon or everyday player on a major league team with thoughts of division championships.

maurice
05-02-2003, 05:34 PM
Good analogy to CLee. He may in fact have an above average arm. Before flaming, please note that I'm not saying that CLee has a good arm. On the contrary, the point is that the average major league OF is poor defensively. LFs in particular often have rag arms. That's why they're playing LF and not, say RF or 3B (CLee's former position). In this sense, it's no great compliment to call a major league OF "above average defensively."

Neither Crash nor CLee are nop notch defensive OFs, but that just puts them on par with the vast majority of major league OFs. The league is not full of Jimmy Piersalls. In fact, the average AL CF isn't a very good hitter, either. Only three AL CFs had an OPS over 800 last year. You can infer how bad the typical 4th or 5th OF must be. It's all relative.

While it would be nice to have three sold two-way OFs, it's harly necessary to win games. Two recent examples:

- The 2001 Mariners won 116 games with Al Martin in LF
- That same year, the Yankees won 95 games with Chuck Knoblach in LF

I'm much more concerned with developing a good, young SS.

Randar68
05-02-2003, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by maurice
Good analogy to CLee. He may in fact have an above average arm. Before flaming, please note that I'm not saying that CLee has a good arm. On the contrary, the point is that the average major league OF is poor defensively. LFs in particular often have rag arms. That's why they're playing LF and not, say RF or 3B (CLee's former position). In this sense, it's no great compliment to call a major league OF "above average defensively."

Neither Crash nor CLee are nop notch defensive OFs, but that just puts them on par with the vast majority of major league OFs. The league is not full of Jimmy Piersalls. In fact, the average AL CF isn't a very good hitter, either. Only three AL CFs had an OPS over 800 last year. You can infer how bad the typical 4th or 5th OF must be. It's all relative.

While it would be nice to have three sold two-way OFs, it's harly necessary to win games. Two recent examples:

- The 2001 Mariners won 116 games with Al Martin in LF
- That same year, the Yankees won 95 games with Chuck Knoblach in LF

I'm much more concerned with developing a good, young SS.

The problem with this is you are comparing LF to CF. CF is a much more demanding and important position. There is a reason why Rowand played nothing but LF all through the minor leagues. It was obvious to the minor league scouts and instructors that he didn't have the speed/judgement or arm/footwork for CF, so he was put in RF. If he had a great arm, he would have been in RF all those years.

BTW, my point is not that he is on par with a group of mediocre players, it is that in an OF with Maggs in RF and Lee in LF, the CF'er has to be a much better player at least defensively than Aaron Rowand. And this is not accounting for his mediocre hitting.

Chris Singleton is a better CF'er by a fair margin all-around than Rowand, and people ran him out of town on occassion. Rowand runs into a few walls because he is oblivious of his wherabouts and chases fly balls instead of running to the spot, and people are ready to vote him into the Hall of Fame.

Randar68
05-02-2003, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by maurice
I'm much more concerned with developing a good, young SS.

Aren't we all!??!?