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View Full Version : Cotts is impressive, but.....


spanishwhite
04-28-2003, 04:35 PM
Pacheco has been ridiculous.

25.1 inn. 23 k's 15 h 1 ER 0.36 ERA

Just turned into a starter and is putting up slightly better
numbers than Cotts.

Thought everybody should know about the kid we got for
Alomar

jeremyb1
04-28-2003, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by spanishwhite
Pacheco has been ridiculous.

25.1 inn. 23 k's 15 h 1 ER 0.36 ERA

Just turned into a starter and is putting up slightly better
numbers than Cotts.

Thought everybody should know about the kid we got for
Alomar

he's been good no doubt. tho only problem i can see is that he's going to be 25 in august and he's still in AA.

Hangar18
04-28-2003, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by spanishwhite
Pacheco has been ridiculous.

25.1 inn. 23 k's 15 h 1 ER 0.36 ERA

Just turned into a starter and is putting up slightly better
numbers than Cotts.

Thought everybody should know about the kid we got for
Alomar

wow, I never wouldve known he was the guy we got for alomar pt 1. Thanx for the info man

delben91
04-28-2003, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
he's been good no doubt. tho only problem i can see is that he's going to be 25 in august and he's still in AA.

Yeah, but at the same time, if he can keep pitching that well, what's a few more years in the age category? Not every major league pitcher breaks out by 22. Not say Pacheco is even major league quality, it's far too early to say, just don't think we should write him off on age alone.

doublem23
04-28-2003, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by delben91
Yeah, but at the same time, if he can keep pitching that well, what's a few more years in the age category? Not every major league pitcher breaks out by 22. Not say Pacheco is even major league quality, it's far too early to say, just don't think we should write him off on age alone.

I agree, especially in dealing with pitchers. Just a question, how long has he been in pro ball? I think that's more important to his status as a prospect rather than his age.

Nothin' wrong with pickin' on the kids! :D:

Daver
04-28-2003, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
I agree, especially in dealing with pitchers. Just a question, how long has he been in pro ball? I think that's more important to his status as a prospect rather than his age.



He'll be eligible for minor league free agency after this season.


From BA.
Pacheco, 23, signed out of the Dominican Republic in 1997 and was converted from starting to relieving in 2001. This season, he has gone 2-2, 3.16 with six saves in 41 games for high Class A Salem. His secondary numbers are far from spectacular: 52 hits and 26 walks versus 31 strikeouts in 51 innings. He's got a live fastball and a hard slider, but Pacheco never has developed an offspeed pitch nor enjoyed consistent success. During the offseason, his birthdate was revealed to be seven months earlier than previously listed.

czalgosz
04-28-2003, 06:54 PM
Hey, for Sandy Alomar, I would have been happy with a bucket of BP balls. Getting anyone resembling a prospect means the Rockies got robbed.

jeremyb1
04-28-2003, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by delben91
Yeah, but at the same time, if he can keep pitching that well, what's a few more years in the age category? Not every major league pitcher breaks out by 22. Not say Pacheco is even major league quality, it's far too early to say, just don't think we should write him off on age alone.

true i suppose but a lot of guys that make the majors at a late age fizzle like singleton or rodrigo lopez who isn't off to much of a start this season. some guys like brendan donnely on the angels or sturtze turn out alright but my inclination is to say that both of those guys probably enjoyed more minor league success earlier than pacheco.

spanishwhite
04-28-2003, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by daver

From BA.
Pacheco, 23, signed out of the Dominican Republic in 1997 and was converted from starting to relieving in 2001. This season, he has gone 2-2, 3.16 with six saves in 41 games for high Class A Salem. His secondary numbers are far from spectacular: 52 hits and 26 walks versus 31 strikeouts in 51 innings. He's got a live fastball and a hard slider, but Pacheco never has developed an offspeed pitch nor enjoyed consistent success. During the offseason, his birthdate was revealed to be seven months earlier than previously listed. [/B]

Sounds like Adkins :(:

Ive never been one to look to age as a success indicators. There are too many examples of how an old prospect works out or doesnt. He is still 24 and all things considering Wright, Stewart, Olivo made the jump from AA to the majors. And they all were around Pacheco's age. If Pacheco keeps dominating, I dont see why they wouldnt give him a sniff of the majors.

Daver
04-28-2003, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by spanishwhite
Sounds like Adkins :(:

Ive never been one to look to age as a success indicators. There are too many examples of how an old prospect works out or doesnt. He is still 24 and all things considering Wright, Stewart, Olivo made the jump from AA to the majors. And they all were around Pacheco's age. If Pacheco keeps dominating, I dont see why they wouldnt give him a sniff of the majors.

I was merely answering a question,in the case of pitchers that are drafted out of college it common to find guys in that age bracket that still have a shot of pitching at the MLB level.

spanishwhite
04-28-2003, 09:10 PM
it wasnt aimed at you amigo.

I quoted you b/c of the info on Pacheco you posted to compare him to the scouting reports I heard on Adkins.

I was really replying to the rest of the posts.

Tranquillo muchacho. Lets love the Sox like everybody else here :D:

Daver
04-28-2003, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by spanishwhite


I quoted you b/c of the info on Pacheco you posted to compare him to the scouting reports I heard on Adkins.



If your using his Oakland reports they are not completely correct anymore,Kirk Champion is helping him develop a change up,I do not have a current report on the progress of that.

:redneck

delben91
04-28-2003, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by daver
If your using his Oakland reports they are not completely correct anymore,Kirk Champion is helping him develop a change up,I do not have a current report on the progress of that.

:redneck

Never ceases to amaze me the number of "going nowhere" prospects we get through trades or the draft that Champion and his staff of instructors turn into better players. Not always major league caliber, but it's rare to see a player regress after coming to the Sox minor league system.

Nellie Comiskey
04-28-2003, 10:38 PM
Cotts has really been effective for Birmingham this year and Pacheco (Fight Dr.) is doing excellent. Even though Corwin Malone, ranked among the top three Sox prospects in 2002 has been hurt on and off, however when he has it together this guy could be something special. Cotts has been to Birmingham what Loaiza has been to Chicago. Speaking of the minors, one guy Sox fans would love is Aaron Miles...This guy (Southern League MVP - 2002) was one of the final two cuts coming out of Arizona and reminds me of a Frank Menechino/Wally Backman type player. Basically a vintage blue-collar Sox second sacker. Even though Jimenez has done well....the hard, gritty play of Miles will win southside fans hearts...He's currently in Charlotte, but hopefully will get his shot shortly.

Huisj
04-29-2003, 01:55 AM
except that jiminez has done everything you could ask him to do as a leadoff man so far this year. he's been great

hose
04-29-2003, 07:33 AM
Originally posted by Nellie Comiskey
Cotts has really been effective for Birmingham this year and Pacheco (Fight Dr.) is doing excellent. Even though Corwin Malone, ranked among the top three Sox prospects in 2002 has been hurt on and off, however when he has it together this guy could be something special. Cotts has been to Birmingham what Loaiza has been to Chicago. Speaking of the minors, one guy Sox fans would love is Aaron Miles...This guy (Southern League MVP - 2002) was one of the final two cuts coming out of Arizona and reminds me of a Frank Menechino/Wally Backman type player. Basically a vintage blue-collar Sox second sacker. Even though Jimenez has done well....the hard, gritty play of Miles will win southside fans hearts...He's currently in Charlotte, but hopefully will get his shot shortly.


Miles was great in ST. I think he is buried behind Jiminez and Willie Harris .

Willie's future position CF or 2nd base depends more on what Reinsdork is willing to spend next year. Letting Valentin go and moving Jiminez to SS will save some money. This will give Miles a better shot then he presently has at the 2nd base position for the Sox.

34 Inch Stick
04-29-2003, 10:07 AM
That brings up an interesting question for the Sox at the end of this year; Do they re sign Valentin? On the one hand he is the heart and soul of this team. He is the emotional leader. He adds more pop to the lineup than any shortstop who could hope to replace him. His best years have happened since he came to the White Sox after the age of 30.

On the other hand, he will be 35 years old at a position that takes its toll on the body. He has had hamstring problems the last couple of years. He is below average defensively. He makes 5 million a year and, I assume, will be looking for a 3 year deal in the same range next year.

To me it looks like Jose will be gone. This will end any of the character that was present in the 2000 Divison Championship season.

Bobby Thigpen
04-29-2003, 10:30 AM
I'd love to see the Sox keep Jose for his leadership. I just don't think it will be as an everyday player. I could see him as a Graffinino type, a spot starter, and excellent left handed bat off the bench. I just don't know if Jose would except those roles.

At the same time if you options are getting rid of Jose and moving Jimenez to short and Harris to second, the Sox may be better off keeping Jose. Could Jose play second, or would it turn out like the CF episode, a disaster? I don't have a lot of faith in Harris. Maybe Miles will be better and end up being the secondbaseman and the Sox will have a great middle of the infield with Jimenez and Miles.

voodoochile
04-29-2003, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by Bobby Thigpen
I'd love to see the Sox keep Jose for his leadership. I just don't think it will be as an everyday player. I could see him as a Graffinino type, a spot starter, and excellent left handed bat off the bench. I just don't know if Jose would except those roles.

At the same time if you options are getting rid of Jose and moving Jimenez to short and Harris to second, the Sox may be better off keeping Jose. Could Jose play second, or would it turn out like the CF episode, a disaster? I don't have a lot of faith in Harris. Maybe Miles will be better and end up being the secondbaseman and the Sox will have a great middle of the infield with Jimenez and Miles.

The only problems I see with Jose as a spot starter/utility player is that he has proven that the only position he can really play fairly well is SS, IMO. In addition, his bat is too valuable to keep on the bench. I don't know if the Sox will pick up his option or not. I suppose it will have to do with how well the team does this year...

Bobby Thigpen
04-29-2003, 10:44 AM
I would agree that his bat is too valuable to sit on a regular basis, but if he isn't going to play SS regularly (everybody seems to think Jimenez is the SS of the future) where do you put him?

Another thing about Jose I've always wondered is why hasn't he become a full time left handed hitter instead of switch hitting? He's prett brutal from the right side, so why hasn't he tried being a full time lefty? I can't imagine he would bat any worse against left handed pitching as a full time lefty than he does when he's on the right side.

kermittheefrog
04-29-2003, 11:07 AM
I think it would be a better move to let Jose go, move Jimenez to short and let Tim Hummel or Willie Harris take second. Jose is going to be too old to risk a multi-year contract on and thats what he will demand. Some team will give it to him too.

Daver
04-29-2003, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I think it would be a better move to let Jose go, move Jimenez to short and let Tim Hummel or Willie Harris take second. Jose is going to be too old to risk a multi-year contract on and thats what he will demand. Some team will give it to him too.

They don't have to offer him a multi year deal,they have an option for 2004.

AngelLeroy
04-29-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by daver
They don't have to offer him a multi year deal,they have an option for 2004.

I think his option will be picked up, barring injury/another crappy season/crappy numbers.

2004 will probably be his last season as a White Sox though. Jimenez/Miles/Harris will fight for SS/2B in 2005, with one of them possibly becoming part of a trade package.

34 Inch Stick
04-29-2003, 01:23 PM
By 2005 Estaban Yan may be good enough to be the shortstop. In two years anything can happen.

czalgosz
04-29-2003, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
By 2005 Estaban Yan may be good enough to be the shortstop. In two years anything can happen.

You mean Edwin Yan, right? He's doing pretty well for Winston-Salem right now. He's got great speed, but needs to learn to get on base.

Daver
04-29-2003, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
You mean Edwin Yan, right? He's doing pretty well for Winston-Salem right now. He's got great speed, but needs to learn to get on base.


He also changed his name to Ruddy.

czalgosz
04-29-2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by daver
He also changed his name to Ruddy.

Ruddy?

Daver
04-29-2003, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Ruddy?

Yeah Ruddy Yan.


He also became 7 weeks younger. Woohoo!

Jjav829
04-29-2003, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
By 2005 Estaban Yan may be good enough to be the shortstop. In two years anything can happen.

Anything? So, my hopes for Jason Dellaero as the Sox starting shortstop are still alive? :D:

doublem23
04-29-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Anything? So, my hopes for Jason Dellaero as the Sox starting shortstop are still alive? :D:

Only if my hopes of Jason Dellaero winning the first Cy Young Award for the Sox since Black Jack are. :D:

czalgosz
04-29-2003, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Only if my hopes of Jason Dellaero winning the first Cy Young Award for the Sox since Black Jack are. :D:

Heck, he could do both - be starting shortstop for four games, and start on the fifth! It would be like Babe Ruth in 1919.