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HawkDJ
04-26-2003, 11:51 PM
I don't know if the gun was off today or what but Koch seemed to be throwing 88-90 today. The last time he pitched it was 93-95. This is a guy we thought could hit 98-100 on the gun. He seemed to dominate in spring training so I'm wondering if Koch could have a sore arm or something of the sort and needs a stint on the 15-day DL. Anyone have any info?

hose
04-26-2003, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by HawkDJ
I don't know if the gun was off today or what but Koch seemed to be throwing 88-90 today. The last time he pitched it was 93-95. This is a guy we thought could hit 98-100 on the gun. He seemed to dominate in spring training so I'm wondering if Koch could have a sore arm or something of the sort and needs a stint on the 15-day DL. Anyone have any info?


He posted a 96 on the right field speed meter tonight.

Daver
04-27-2003, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by HawkDJ
Anyone have any info?

Yeah,quit relying on the gun to evaluate pitchers.

ScottySoxFan
04-27-2003, 12:03 AM
Hawk and DJ also mentioned while Gordon was pitching that the gun was reading slow.

baggio202
04-27-2003, 12:09 AM
dont need a gun to tell me koch was no where near 96 tonight..if you watch enough baseball you can tell when a pitcher hits that "blowing people away" zone...koch was in the low 90's..if i had to guess in the 91-93 range...

why a guy is throwing 96 plus..you see alot of late swings..guys trying to speed their bats up...then you'll maybe see them pull one foul because they started real early trying to time the pitcher...which also leads horrible swings on off speed pitches and pitches out of the zone that the batter chases because he doesnt have the time to decide if its a strike or not..

you see none of that with koch right now...guys are getting real good swings at him..they are timing his fastball with ease and hitting the ball hard on him every game...

he is just not designed to be sucessful throwing in the low to mid 90's..he needs 96 mph minimum to be successful in my opinion...

WinningUgly!
04-27-2003, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by ScottySoxFan
Hawk and DJ also mentioned while Gordon was pitching that the gun was reading slow.
Yeah, Hawk also said the Sox are aware the gun is way off & that it needs to be calibrated.

I guess they've spent all the US Cellular money in the 2003 budget. :D:

MHOUSE
04-27-2003, 01:31 AM
If his fastball is straight as an arrow it doesn't matter if it's 90 or 95, it's landing in the seats. He's getting hit way too much especailly the long balls. Without Magg's homer it would've been 5-4 and 1 out. A closer with a 9.00 ERA and 5 HR allowed isn't the most assuring thing in the world.

DonkeyKongerko
04-27-2003, 02:33 AM
The gun on WGN was reading slow tonite apparently. How many of you saw Flash pitching and knew he was blowing Twins away with his heat? The gun was reading about 90 on his heaters.

Nellie_Fox
04-27-2003, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by baggio202
dont need a gun to tell me koch was no where near 96 tonight..if you watch enough baseball you can tell when a pitcher hits that "blowing people away" zone...koch was in the low 90's..if i had to guess in the 91-93 range... Holy crap. You can tell the speed on a baseball by watching it on TV? You're good, man.

I used to run traffic radar. It was live and in person, and if I wasn't doing it regularly I had trouble eyeballing the speed as compared to the gun. You can do it in two dimensions on a TV screen. I'm impressed.

TheBigHurt
04-27-2003, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!


I guess they've spent all the US Cellular money in the 2003 budget. :D:
****TO........already!!!!!!!! REINEY and co. just dont wait do they

doublem23
04-27-2003, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by HawkDJ
Anyone have any info?

Hawk & DJ said the radar gun was a couple of MPH slow during the broadcast.

baggio202
04-27-2003, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Holy crap. You can tell the speed on a baseball by watching it on TV? You're good, man.

I used to run traffic radar. It was live and in person, and if I wasn't doing it regularly I had trouble eyeballing the speed as compared to the gun. You can do it in two dimensions on a TV screen. I'm impressed.

take for example colon's start in cleveland..i nthe 8th he faced travis hafner..he threw two fastballs by him and hafner didnt even get the bat near home plate before the ball was in sandy's glove...i guessed 99 on those 2 fastballs...the papaer the next day said 98...close

havent seen anything like that from koch yet...no one is being blown away...94 tops tonight is my guess....some fastballs as low as 91...bet im pretty close..

i imagine its easier to tell the speed of a baseball thrown 60'6"..because you have so many other times in your memory to compare them too..and having a batter try to hit it really helps...i couldnt tell you at all what the mph are from like a throw from CF...but i really dont think guessing what a pitcher throws and getting to within 1 mph either is difficult for anyone..you have a parameter of about 80 to 100 mph to start with...

SoxxoS
04-27-2003, 05:09 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
If his fastball is straight as an arrow it doesn't matter if it's 90 or 95, it's landing in the seats. He's getting hit way too much especailly the long balls. Without Magg's homer it would've been 5-4 and 1 out. A closer with a 9.00 ERA and 5 HR allowed isn't the most assuring thing in the world.

Not true. There is a big difference between 90, 95, and 100. You tell me that Koch's stuff looks as hard as Farnsworth's? Watch Farnsworth throw and you will see what Koch's fastball is supposed to look like. If he goes from being a fireballer to a guy with a straight 92 mph fastball, we/he is/are in big trouble.

Obviously throwing slower means something because he is getting lit up. Excuse me while I change my "Bad game count" to 4.

hose
04-27-2003, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by daver
Yeah,quit relying on the gun to evaluate pitchers.


The thread is about Billy Koch's speed.

His success at the major league level has been because of the speed of his fastball.

I wouldn't classify Koch as a pitcher, but a thrower. So I think Koch's mph will always be a concern.

The gun is just a tool available to the coaching staff. How a organization uses this information might be another story.

When I was down in Tucson 2 spring trainings ago. I was watching Jim Parque pitch a inter-squad game. Parque was complaining in the paper that his lost velocity wasn't a factor.
The gun was no more than 10 feet from me and I could see Parque throwing in the low 80's . He peaked out at 84 mph.
The club wanted him to build up his arm strength and also his velocity. Parque complained to no end that he was a PITCHER and that the gun readings were overblown. With out a decent fastball to spot Parque was no more than a batting practice pitcher and got destroyed at Charlotte and Comiskey.


I would agree with you that clubs miss use the gun about evaluating pitchers for the draft. Relying to much on gun readings & physical size but over looking poise and control

Tommy John once said that he would not have been drafted by a team today. He did not fit the prototypical model of a modern pitcher that organizations blindly go after.

Daver
04-28-2003, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by hose


I wouldn't classify Koch as a pitcher, but a thrower.

If you are going to go with that reasoning I should be playing MLB ball,I can throw it,but I can't locate it.

Rethink that statement,it takes a pitcher to get the ball over the plate.

baggio202
04-28-2003, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by daver
If you are going to go with that reasoning I should be playing MLB ball,I can throw it,but I can't locate it.

Rethink that statement,it takes a pitcher to get the ball over the plate.

thats koch's problem...he gets the basll over the plate..right , over , the , plate :o:

hose
04-28-2003, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by daver
If you are going to go with that reasoning I should be playing MLB ball,I can throw it,but I can't locate it.

Rethink that statement,it takes a pitcher to get the ball over the plate.


Rethink your statement, you constantly mention about not using the gun to evaluate pitchers. Explain why every team in MLB deploys them. Then look at my post for the reference to Tommy John.

Leave out the part when you say "but then what do I know"

I used a general term like a pitcher and a thrower to get a point across. No different than comparing a boxer to a puncher, or a slasher to a straight ahead pounder, shooting forward (soft) to a power forward ( banger). Each are all the same position , just different styles of how they approach the game.

So Koch has 4 pitches all of the sudden?

MHOUSE
04-28-2003, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by daver
If you are going to go with that reasoning I should be playing MLB ball,I can throw it,but I can't locate it.

Rethink that statement,it takes a pitcher to get the ball over the plate.

How hard/fast could you throw Daver?