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TornLabrum
04-26-2003, 09:13 PM
Okay, so Manuel says that Froemming warned the managers before the game, so Lohse stays, Garland gets tossed, and both managers stay. Are we being just a wee bit inconsistent?

wirtzbeer55
04-26-2003, 09:15 PM
I guess it's the typical officiating theme from other sports, where the retaliator is the one who suffers. Plus you could argue that Lohse wan't trying to hit Maggs whereas Garland was obviously throwing at Mientkiewicz. Either way, I still agree with Hawk's assessment, and the comments of Jeff Fassero after he got tossed a few games ago from a game, where he decried the fact that pitchers can't protect their guys anymore.

Daver
04-26-2003, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Okay, so Manuel says that Froemming warned the managers before the game, so Lohse stays, Garland gets tossed, and both managers stay. Are we being just a wee bit inconsistent?

Balderdash.

A warning has to come under game conditions for it to mean a damn thing,Froemming was still out of line.

RKMeibalane
04-26-2003, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Okay, so Manuel says that Froemming warned the managers before the game, so Lohse stays, Garland gets tossed, and both managers stay. Are we being just a wee bit inconsistent?

That's crap. Nobody knew anything about the warning, aside from the managers. Hawk and DJ obviously had no idea that the warning was issued, and I doubt if anyone in the stands was aware of it. Froemming should be punished for this. He's lucky his power trip didn't cost the Sox this game.

Tavarin
04-26-2003, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by wirtzbeer55
Plus you could argue that Lohse wan't trying to hit Maggs whereas Garland was obviously throwing at Mientkiewicz.

Actually, using the signs Daver pointed out earlier, you notice that Pier-whatever signaled a fist with a finger pointing at Magglio before the pitch was thrown. It was intentional

Daver
04-26-2003, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by Tavarin
Actually, using the signs Daver pointed out earlier, you notice that Pier-whatever signaled a fist with a finger pointing at Magglio before the pitch was thrown. It was intentional

I know nothing about baseball.

Tavarin
04-26-2003, 10:07 PM
then how did you know the sign in this thread?
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=18915&s=&perpage=15&pagenumber=1&display=show

LuvSox
04-26-2003, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by daver
I know nothing about baseball.

You say that a lot. I think you're being sarcastic. Who said you didn't know baseball?

Daver
04-26-2003, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Tavarin
then how did you know the sign in this thread?
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=18915&s=&perpage=15&pagenumber=1&display=show

I have been told by experts on this board that I know nothing about baseball.

kevingrt
04-26-2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by daver
I have been told by experts on this board that I know nothing about baseball.

Daver you do know something, I hope

RKMeibalane
04-26-2003, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by daver
I have been told by experts on this board that I know nothing about baseball.

Who exactly are you referring to? I think you know a lot about baseball.

T Dog
04-26-2003, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by daver
A warning has to come under game conditions for it to mean a damn thing,Froemming was still out of line.

Technically, the umpire doesn't have to issue a warning to be able to eject someone he believes is throwing at a hitter. Last year in the Metrodome, Wendelstedt ejected Rocky Biddle for hitting a batter who Rocky still insists he wasn't trying to hit. I think that too came without an official warning. Of course, that was garbage too.

Daver
04-26-2003, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by T Dog
Technically, the umpire doesn't have to issue a warning to be able to eject someone he believes is throwing at a hitter. Last year in the Metrodome, Wendelstedt ejected Rocky Biddle for hitting a batter who Rocky still insists he wasn't trying to hit. I think that too came without an official warning. Of course, that was garbage too.

Technically,yes he does,and he has to do it on the field,one of the the changes in the umpires code of conduct that came about when the Spineless Wonder broke the umpire's union.

The crew that was officiating tonite's game will have to answer for it.

RKMeibalane
04-26-2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by T Dog
Technically, the umpire doesn't have to issue a warning to be able to eject someone he believes is throwing at a hitter. Last year in the Metrodome, Wendelstedt ejected Rocky Biddle for hitting a batter who Rocky still insists he wasn't trying to hit. I think that too came without an official warning. Of course, that was garbage too.

I can't help getting the feeling that Major League umpires will do whatever they can to stick it to Jerry Reinsdorf and the Chicago White Sox. This team has been victimized by several bad calls, and if KW has any sense, he will speak to someone from the comissioner's office once Monday rolls around.

Konerkoholic
04-26-2003, 10:49 PM
From Twins' coverage at mlb.com: "By the time plate umpire Bruce Froemming sorted out the mess and play resumed, two players had been ejected, Garland and Minnesota reliever LaTroy Hawkins."

The man caused the damn mess.

T Dog
04-26-2003, 11:00 PM
Umpires still have discretion on ejections. They are allegedly being held to stricter standards and have to be able to defend their actions. In this case, Froemming will have to defend his inconsistency and the lack of an official warning. Perhaps he thinks his seniority will count for something. Certainly there will be a report to MLB on tonight's game. Perhaps Garland will be considered for suspension.

Daver
04-26-2003, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by T Dog
Umpires still have discretion on ejections. They are allegedly being held to stricter standards and have to be able to defend their actions. In this case, Froemming will have to defend his inconsistency and the lack of an official warning. Perhaps he thinks his seniority will count for something. Certainly there will be a report to MLB on tonight's game. Perhaps Garland will be considered for suspension.

They can't suspend him if he was not given a warning,which he wasn't.The only mishandling here came from the Ump.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-27-2003, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Okay, so Manuel says that Froemming warned the managers before the game, so Lohse stays, Garland gets tossed, and both managers stay. Are we being just a wee bit inconsistent?

PRECISELY! That's why it's inexcusable that Manuel wasn't all over Froemming on the field. Even in his post-game comments, Manuel was pooh-poohing the whole matter as though there wasn't a single thing about the umpire's decision that was the least bit out of whack. Un-****ing-believable.

Even Dave Wills and Bill Melton couldn't defend Manuel's stance. Froemming was OUTSIDE the rulebook with how he handled the matter.

A manager choosing not to pump up his team by creating a big scene is one thing. I think the ballplayers respect Manuel for not being such an obvious baiter of the umps.

However, laying down and letting your ballclub get victimized (especially your youngest pitcher!) is something entirely different. I bet the ballplayers back in the clubhouse know the difference, too.

To paraphrase Billy Martin, to believe Bruce Froemming's viewpoint, the rulebook is only good for when you go deerhunting and run out of toilet paper.

Martin probably would have challenged Froemming to a fight. Ah, baseball...

:gulp:

Viva Magglio
04-27-2003, 08:56 PM
Froemming is an umpire, I think, who likes to make himself the center of controversy. He knew damn well that controversy would rain down upon him by ejecting Garland. Bruce is a longtime controversial guy. Just ask Milt Pappas.