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View Full Version : Valentin sick of corpseball, too


Chisox353014
04-25-2003, 11:40 AM
Jose speaks out...again (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/251sd5.htm)

DrCrawdad
04-25-2003, 12:18 PM
Hey, Hey Jose! I agree!

The Sox need a shot of energy and excitement. Maybe there will be a brawl with the Twins.

MetalliSox
04-25-2003, 12:28 PM
Jose is the leader of this team. I love it.

I'm curious to see who is being selfish. People would say Frank but I have seen him smiling and joking around in the dugout lately.

That last part about Mientkaybitch is irritating. This guy is an average ball player who has a gator mouth backing up his canary behind.

He deserves a round house right to the jaw.

jeremyb1
04-25-2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by KonerkosHip
Jose is the leader of this team. I love it.

I'm curious to see who is being selfish. People would say Frank but I have seen him smiling and joking around in the dugout lately.


if i had to pick one guy i'd go with paully. i don't know who else. the other guys that are struggling the most are frank, carlos, and rowand.

if you ask me all we need is one really good game where everyone hits well and everything goes right or just one big comeback - like the one against the cubs last year - and everything will be fine.

SoxxoS
04-25-2003, 12:43 PM
I heard bringing in a manager that doesn't act like a corpse in the dugout really ups the intensity of the team. You have to wonder when your manager doesn't even yell at a umpire when 2 RUNS were taken off the board. What a joke. If that was Lou Pinella he'd be kicking dirt all over the ump and going crazy. That lights a fire under your team. Not having a one-to-one with the umpire and discussing your problems. What a crock.

The Devil Rays are like a AAA team out there, except they come to play everyday. Who is that a direct reflection on? Take one guess.

LetsGoSox_1
04-25-2003, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by KonerkosHip
That last part about Mientkaybitch is irritating. This guy is an average ball player who has a gator mouth backing up his canary behind.

He deserves a round house right to the jaw.

I agree. I don't think any Sox fan can stand Mientkaybitch. Saying the All-Star game should be removed from the South Side was a joke. Sometimes I wish Beuhrle would drill him just to shut his mouth up. :angry:

MetalliSox
04-25-2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by LetsGoSox_1
I agree. I don't think any Sox fan can stand Mientkaybitch. Saying the All-Star game should be removed from the South Side was a joke. Sometimes I wish Beuhrle would drill him just to shut his mouth up. :angry:

I'd rather have Colon's heater aimed at Mientkaybitch instead of Buehrle's 88 mph-er.

LetsGoSox_1
04-25-2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by KonerkosHip
I'd rather have Colon's heater aimed at Mientkaybitch instead of Buehrle's 88 mph-er.

:) Good point.

Chisox353014
04-25-2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by KonerkosHip
I'd rather have Colon's heater aimed at Mientkaybitch instead of Buehrle's 88 mph-er.

I'd vote for Koch's except it would probably end up belt-high right down the middle.

Iwritecode
04-25-2003, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Chisox353014
I'd vote for Koch's except it would probably end up belt-high right down the middle.

We would want Koch to get three straight outs. Colon has plenty of outs to spare during the game. Plus, would you think about charging the mound against him? You'd also have Sandy coming up from behind, and he's not exactly small...

Foulke You
04-25-2003, 01:44 PM
:manos
My vote for "player/manager"

Why does Jose always have to step up and say what needs to be said? Because Jerry Manuel is busy sitting in the dugout with that glazed over look on his face. WAKE UP JERRY! Stop putting Gordon into key situations, stop tinkering, and fire this team up. Corpse Ball has resurfaced from its '01/'02 slumber and as Jose said it is time to stop it right now before it is too late!

bc2k
04-25-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
:manos
My vote for "player/manager"

Why does Jose always have to step up and say what needs to be said? Because Jerry Manuel is busy sitting in the dugout with that glazed over look on his face.

Great idea followed by a great point. We don't see a player/manager anymore these days. I think that would be an excellent decision. And with the manager title, Jose would be granted a free reign to say whatever he wants to anyone he wants. Having a vocal Valentin is a good thing.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-25-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
if i had to pick one guy i'd go with paully. i don't know who else. the other guys that are struggling the most are frank, carlos, and rowand...

Konerko takes his personal performance WAY too seriously to be a team leader. The reason he is now quiet is because he is in a major funk--a classic example of confusing on-field performance with off-field leadership skills. I was hardly surprised he spoke up last July about clubhouse problems; Konerko had just been named to the all-star team. What has happened to his big mouth now?

Sorry--I don't confuse Paul Konerko with a team leader. I'm betting nobody else on the team confuses him with one either.

voodoochile
04-25-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Great idea followed by a great point. We don't see a player/manager anymore these days. I think that would be an excellent decision. And with the manager title, Jose would be granted a free reign to say whatever he wants to anyone he wants. Having a vocal Valentin is a good thing.

I thought they changed the rule to prevent player/managers in MLB.

I did like the suggestion of bringing in Fisk. Of course knowing JR there is NO WAY he would ever pay Fisk the money it would take.

cheeses_h_rice
04-25-2003, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Konerko takes his personal performance WAY too seriously to be a team leader. The reason he is now quiet is because he is in a major funk--a classic example of confusing on-field performance with off-field leadership skills. I was hardly surprised he spoke up last July about clubhouse problems; Konerko had just been named to the all-star team. What has happened to his big mouth now?

Sorry--I don't confuse Paul Konerko with a team leader. I'm betting nobody else on the team confuses him with one either.

I'm sure it's Konerko in particular that Jose is talking about. He has that damned hangdog look EVERY TIME he grounds into another double play or strikes out, and you can tell it's festering in his mind.

I'm really glad to see Jose, once again, step up and be a sparkplug to this red-lining team. There's way too much frigging talent on this squad to finish anything but first in our division.

baggio202
04-25-2003, 02:52 PM
here is my guess...

1. jimenez...i know he is one of the few that is hitting but he comes with bigtime baggage and in ST jose was already quoted as saying this guy is real lazy...that play in balt where he took his time and suroff beat it out..plus his effort in kc on that grounder after marte gave up the lead had to have jose in fits...its one thing to make a physical error or even a mental one..its' another thing completely to downright give up cause things went against you

2. carlos lee...this guy is the epitome of the "me first" ballplayer..that at bat in cleveland the day after he hit the granny,. bases loaded again the next day and he has a swing that started in canada and ended up in pittsburgh..i cant remember the pitcher but he came into the game giving up 15 hits in 9 IP..and he blew lee away on 3 pitches..even DJ got on carlos about that at bat..

3.frank thomas..no loveloss here...and while frank's poor numbers have been offset by him walking so much and imo , trying to hit the ball the the right way and be a team player manos also said guys in the clubhouse wernt acting like a team and thats where i bet frank comes in...probably worried more about his numbers than helping his teammates

4. konerko...someone else on this thread said it real well..paully is a team leader when things are going good..when he is in a major funk..he is trapped in pauly's world where he is too busy beating himself over the head to realize he needs to be helping his teammates...

5.garland...his attitude almost mirror's manuel's..talk about laid back..jon deep inside might have the burning desire needed to make it but on the surface it has to look to his teammates like he doesnt have a care in the world...

6. manuel himself...i think this outburst is a plea from jose to try and get manuel to kick some on these guys in the ass...im sure it will fall on deaf ears..

those are my guesses..i could be wrong..i know people will argue about jimenez but we are talking about attitude, not performance

LuvSox
04-25-2003, 03:02 PM
Jose said it---this team NEEDS fire. Manuel doesn't have it. :firejerry :fireward

mack10zie
04-25-2003, 03:08 PM
"I won't let this thing get too far away from us. Not again."

That quote pumps me up. Gotta love Jose's attitude.


Sox general manager Ken Williams responded by saying Mientkiewicz wouldn't have to worry about being at the All-Star Game

This quote cracks me up. Nice one Kenny!!!

Chisox353014
04-25-2003, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
We would want Koch to get three straight outs. Colon has plenty of outs to spare during the game. Plus, would you think about charging the mound against him? You'd also have Sandy coming up from behind, and he's not exactly small...

True, but I was thinking more in terms of pain than game situation. A laser-straight 100 mph heater from Koch seems like it would hurt more. :D:

baggio202
04-25-2003, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by Chisox353014
True, but I was thinking more in terms of pain than game situation. A laser-straight 100 mph heater from Koch seems like it would hurt more. :D:

billy botch hasnt come close to 100mph since he has been here...

StepsInSC
04-25-2003, 04:13 PM
I remember during one of the several hundred Frank arguments this offseason a point made by almost every Frank basher was how Paulie was such a team leader, and didn't hesitate to do sacrifice himself for the good of the team. I'm not saying its not true, but just thought it was interesting.

maurice
04-25-2003, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by StepsInSC
I remember during one of the several hundred Frank arguments this offseason a point made by almost every Frank basher was how Paulie was such a team leader

Paulie also is a great situational hitter who regressed in the second half of 2002 only because he hurt his foot and not because he was playing over his head in the first half.

mrwag
04-25-2003, 04:19 PM
I've said it before, but the last good manager we had was Torborg. That's a guy who'd always put his a$$ on the line to support his players, and showed emotion and actually cared.

FarmerAndy
04-25-2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by baggio202

3.frank thomas..no loveloss here...and while frank's poor numbers have been offset by him walking so much and imo , trying to hit the ball the the right way and be a team player manos also said guys in the clubhouse wernt acting like a team and thats where i bet frank comes in...probably worried more about his numbers than helping his teammates


I agree with most of your list, especially Konerko. I think PHG hit the nail on the head concerning Konerko's leadership skills. I have to disagree about Frank though. I don't think he's been a real problem this year.

We all know Frank is great when he's hitting well, and in the past he's gone into his own world when he's not hitting. The thing that has suprised me this year though is that Frank hasn't really been hitting the ball, but for once in his life he's not letting it get to him.

Jose is obviously the true leader on this team. But this year I would actually say that Frank is somewhere near the top of the list of good teammates in the dugout.

I few observations about Frank so far this season:

* There's already been a couple of times this year where a pitcher has been pulled out of the game after giving up a few runs, and I've seen Frank go over, sit down next to him, and put his arm on his shoulder and talk to him for a bit.

* Even when he's having a bad game, he's been the first guy at the top of the steps to high-five his teammates after they score. This year Frank seems to get really excited when the team does something good, even if he didn't contribute to it. This is the kind of un-selfish behavior that we haven't seen from him over the last couple of seasons, but now he seems to have his head on straight.

* Since the start of the season he has talked to the media alot, without putting his foot in his mouth, and he's always all smiles. Even all of the sports writers who usually jump at the chance to blast him have said that Frank is nothing but a delight in the clubhouse this year.


I've always been a fan of Frank Thomas as a hitter, but this year he really seems to have the attitude that I've always wished he'd have. Now I just want to see him start swingin' the stick like I know he can, and I want to see the Sox start winnin'.

GASHWOUND
04-25-2003, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by LetsGoSox_1
I agree. I don't think any Sox fan can stand Mientkiewiczaybitch. Saying the All-Star game should be removed from the South Side was a joke. Sometimes I wish Beuhrle would drill him just to shut his mouth up. :angry:

Yeah, can't stand him..And that, "Kenny who" by Mientkiewicz as a complete mock cause KW said the same exact thing about Mientkiewicz, when he said "who's he" in a interviw earlier this year.
This team needs to go all Sox/Tigers/00 on this team this series..I don't like advocating violence, but this teams needs a brawl in the worst way to wake their asses up..It worked in 00 and Mientkiewicz is the perect target :angry: :gulp:

baggio202
04-25-2003, 06:55 PM
my guess on frank was because i know frank and manos have had there outs in the past...i hope youa re right on frank...we need him to step up and help lead this year if its as bad as manos is saying...

Originally posted by FarmerAndy
I agree with most of your list, especially Konerko. I think PHG hit the nail on the head concerning Konerko's leadership skills. I have to disagree about Frank though. I don't think he's been a real problem this year.

We all know Frank is great when he's hitting well, and in the past he's gone into his own world when he's not hitting. The thing that has suprised me this year though is that Frank hasn't really been hitting the ball, but for once in his life he's not letting it get to him.

Jose is obviously the true leader on this team. But this year I would actually say that Frank is somewhere near the top of the list of good teammates in the dugout.

I few observations about Frank so far this season:

* There's already been a couple of times this year where a pitcher has been pulled out of the game after giving up a few runs, and I've seen Frank go over, sit down next to him, and put his arm on his shoulder and talk to him for a bit.

* Even when he's having a bad game, he's been the first guy at the top of the steps to high-five his teammates after they score. This year Frank seems to get really excited when the team does something good, even if he didn't contribute to it. This is the kind of un-selfish behavior that we haven't seen from him over the last couple of seasons, but now he seems to have his head on straight.

* Since the start of the season he has talked to the media alot, without putting his foot in his mouth, and he's always all smiles. Even all of the sports writers who usually jump at the chance to blast him have said that Frank is nothing but a delight in the clubhouse this year.



I've always been a fan of Frank Thomas as a hitter, but this year he really seems to have the attitude that I've always wished he'd have. Now I just want to see him start swingin' the stick like I know he can, and I want to see the Sox start winnin'.

DrCrawdad
04-25-2003, 07:32 PM
Twins score 3 runs in the first inning. Game over.

TornLabrum
04-25-2003, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by FarmerAndy
We all know Frank is great when he's hitting well, and in the past he's gone into his own world when he's not hitting. The thing that has suprised me this year though is that Frank hasn't really been hitting the ball, but for once in his life he's not letting it get to him.

And with good reason. He doesn't have the diminished skills clause on his back. Instead he has an option for a raise of a couple of million bucks that he can pick up if he doesn't perform well this year.

Nellie_Fox
04-26-2003, 12:35 AM
Something to consider: Is leadership running your mouth in the press, or is it sounding off in the clubhouse and having people listen to you? Personally, I think leaders keep it in-house.

ma-gaga
04-26-2003, 12:47 AM
hey. At least Buehrle drilled Mientkiewicz.

Not to be a smartass, but is there really a leadership problem on the Sox, or do the writers like to make a bigger deal about it than there is?

I've really noticed a difference in the way the Sox are covered in the media compared to EVERY OTHER TEAM, and I don't quite know why. They feed into something nasty out there, and it reinforces and feeds itself. Regardless, there is a lot of paranoia generated by this team and I don't understand why.

Lip/PHG/Daver, Am I totally offbase here? :?: Anyone else have any ideas?

Lip Man 1
04-26-2003, 02:38 AM
Just a theory that I've been "tinkering" with (no pun intended) I don't know if there is anything to it, I just toss it out for discussion.

I think there is something known as a "collective memory" for a franchise. I know many players, coaches, front office types say the don't listen to the media or the fans but I don't see how they can NOT.

The "media" now includes everything from the mainstream media like the Tribune to the internet sites like WSI. It's sports talk radio, satellite TV and 'fanatasy" leagues.

To completely ignore all of this would mean you'd have to be living a hermit's life in a cave.

My point is that you have all these places where fans, reporters and such have been talking in various degrees about the failure of this organization and franchise. I think the players hear all this stuff and start to press. They will never admit it but when you hear day after day after day that this organization hasn't been to a World Series since 1959 and is considered a "second class" citizen in your own hometown (thanks in large part to the disasterous PR moves of the organization) that's GOT to affect you.

Just my opinion.

gosox41
04-26-2003, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by maurice
Paulie also is a great situational hitter who regressed in the second half of 2002 only because he hurt his foot and not because he was playing over his head in the first half.

I'm so glad he's hear for the next 3 years eating roughly 16% of the White Sox pay roll.


I said it before when the extenstion was signed, and I'll say it again. The Sox made a huge mistake resigning the guyf or the amount of money they did. He is an average offensive 1B at best. Now, you've seen his worst.

Bob

HawkDJ
04-26-2003, 12:33 PM
We've seen these articles from Jose on Whitesox.com for three straight years now..2001,2002 and now 2003. As much as Jose tried, he couldn't light a big enough fire to get the team on track the past 2 years and it doesn't look much different this year. We've got new faces, but we're still the same White Sox.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-26-2003, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by ma-gaga
hey. At least Buehrle drilled Mientkiewicz.

Not to be a smartass, but is there really a leadership problem on the Sox, or do the writers like to make a bigger deal about it than there is?

I've really noticed a difference in the way the Sox are covered in the media compared to EVERY OTHER TEAM, and I don't quite know why. They feed into something nasty out there, and it reinforces and feeds itself. Regardless, there is a lot of paranoia generated by this team and I don't understand why.

Lip/PHG/Daver, Am I totally offbase here? :?: Anyone else have any ideas?

Paragraph by paragraph response below.

1. Buehrle was wild. He hit Mientkiewicz with a breaking pitch, the surest sign he wasn't trying to drill him. That ******* deserves a far bigger welt than the one Buehrle gave him.

2. Leadership is overblown, especially for professional sports teams.

3. The Sox ARE covered differently, mostly because the media must split its available space/time/resources between two teams in the same city. The Cubs have superior marketing, and the Sox are owned my an idiot who thinks there is something to be gained by poor-mouthing his own franchise, players, and fans. These two facts make the results you noted inevitable.

4. You're not totally off base.