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View Full Version : Jerry Manuel Must Go...Today!


Hangar18
04-25-2003, 08:57 AM
Im not one to jump on bandwagons, but Ive had it with him. Jerry Manuels bullpen decisions have cost the Sox 4 games already and this season is slipping away already, and were NOT EVEN INTO MAY YET! Seasons over. Get Rid of Manuel TODAY.

LuvSox
04-25-2003, 09:04 AM
I don't think the season is over already, but I agree 110% that JM needs to leave asap. I've never liked him. My opinion is he had very little to do with 2000's success. He just fell into a good team. Now it's a total mess. Buh-bye Jerry.

Sad
04-25-2003, 09:22 AM
I still think the SOX can win this division
but NOT when we're GIVING games away like last night because of one man's stubborn foolishness!

I can see this happening once or twice but it's obvious he's trying to build their confidence at the risk of the ballgame...

that should have been a SOX win last night

you can put this on the board:
:firejerry

hold2dibber
04-25-2003, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Im not one to jump on bandwagons, but Ive had it with him. Jerry Manuels bullpen decisions have cost the Sox 4 games already and this season is slipping away already, and were NOT EVEN INTO MAY YET! Seasons over. Get Rid of Manuel TODAY.

Are you serious? The season's over? Come on, it's not even May, the Sox are over .500 and in second place. In fact, even if you think KC is going to win 95 games (and I don't), the Sox certainly have kept pace so far with other wild-card contenders.

I don't agree that Manuel's bullpen decisions have cost the Sox 4 games. Lousy performance by pitchers that we should be able to depend on have cost the team 4 games.

With that said, I do think Manuel is not the right manager for this team. His decisions last night were dumb (ride the hot hand, Jerry, and don't put in a pitcher who is sick and asked for the night off - Glover was the obvious choice, not White or Gordon) and I think he cares more about not offending his players than about winning on any given night ("I don't want to pinch hit for Alomar or Rowand - it might hurt their feelings!"). I want Jim Leyland or Davey Johnson.

Hangar18
04-25-2003, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I want Jim Leyland or Davey Johnson.

man, good Suggestion. Why arent we hiring Jim Leyland!!!!!

South Sider
04-25-2003, 10:00 AM
Yeah Manuel made bad decisions so often this season .

Examples from yesterdays game

Going into the 8th trailing by 1 run, Maggs as a leadoff batter reached first on a single.

But instead of playing some little ball and sacrifice him to 2nd
Konerko grounds into another double play
His 6th of the season so far !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice Decision Mr. Manuel

And calling up another Lefty (Sanders) to use Wunsch longer in a game and then take him out after 1 inning although he pitched strong makes no sense to me either.
Nice Decision Mr. Manuel

And so on and on and on .............

Can you feel the magic like it was in 2000 ?????

I can't feel anything like that.

The only thing I feel is that we'll loose a bunch of games and win a bunch of games

There will be some closed-door-meetings, but in the end we will finish 2nd in the Central Division again.....with phrases like "Wait 'till next season!!!!"

My prediction for the next 3 series

vs. Twins 1-2 (Mays will get us in 1 game-Score 1-5, Garland will loose another game score 2-9)

vs. struggling A's 1-2 (Better starting pitching and bullpen - Foulke,Bradford- and situational hitting)

vs Mariners 1-2 (one blowout against us and one loss on sunday - national TV !!!!!! -

So after that we will be 15-16 and maybe 7-8 games behind the Royals.

Say goodbye to the playoffs in 2003

But what is so bad about that.

We wouldn't have any chance to win just 1 game vs the damned Yanks

MHOUSE
04-25-2003, 10:00 AM
The season is not over now, but it will be if we continue to NOT hit and have our bullpen meltdown. Eventually these losses will catch up and playing the Tigers a lot won't save us.

CHISOXFAN13
04-25-2003, 11:02 AM
Sacrificing with Konerko?? Yeah, that's a great way to get your 5 hitter out of a slump.

gosox41
04-25-2003, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Sacrificing with Konerko?? Yeah, that's a great way to get your 5 hitter out of a slump.

I agree with you. I can't beleive any one here would call on Konerko to bunt. If JM had called the play, odds are PK would have messed it up since he probably hasn't bunted since high school. Imagine the outrage against Manuel then.

While I am not a JM fan, anyone suggesting Konerko bunt is just playing Monday morning QB.

Bob

South Sider
04-25-2003, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Sacrificing with Konerko?? Yeah, that's a great way to get your 5 hitter out of a slump.

Baseball is a team sport. We want the Sox to win games and not Konerko get good stats.

And if your team needs a sac bunt from you in order to win a game the individual statistics of A N Y player have to stand back.
That's why it called sacrifice !!!!

Just look at the NL.

And yeah....hitting constantly into double plays will get you nowhere plus you took away a good chance to tie the game.

OK It's just my opinion...but I still think JM had to make this decision if he really wants to get something going

And remember

8 rally killers from Paul so far

South Sider
04-25-2003, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by South Sider
Baseball is a team sport. We want the Sox to win games and not Konerko get good stats.

And if your team needs a sac bunt from you in order to win a game the individual statistics of A N Y player have to stand back.
That's why it called sacrifice !!!!

Just look at the NL.

And yeah....hitting constantly into double plays will get you nowhere plus you took away a good chance to tie the game.

OK It's just my opinion...but I still think JM had to make this decision if he really wants to get something going

And remember

8 rally killers from Paul so far

Sorry.... I meant 6 GIDP so far.
Hope this is not a bad sign.

Lip Man 1
04-25-2003, 11:58 AM
Well it's a fact the Sox are already 5 1/2 out and the season's not even a month old yet.

Yes the Sox are over .500 but barely, and that's playing against "so called" bad teams.

Let's just say the first four weeks hasn't been very encouraging.

Lip

hold2dibber
04-25-2003, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Well it's a fact the Sox are already 5 1/2 out and the season's not even a month old yet.

Yes the Sox are over .500 but barely, and that's playing against "so called" bad teams.

Let's just say the first four weeks hasn't been very encouraging.

Lip

The first week wasn't encouraging, the 2nd and 3rd weeks were extremely encouraging, and the 4th week was not encouraging. My point is, they've been up and down and even when they've been "up" they did it without much help from the middle of the line-up or Garland, which is impressive. And although they're 5 1/2 out, the team they're behind is the Royals, and the Royals are not going to play .840 baseball all year. Am I optimistic? No, I'm a Sox fan. But concluding (like some - not you) have that the season is over is pretty silly. I still say the Sox are an 85 to 90 win team. I think the Royals and Twins probably will fall in that range, too.

Fridaythe13thJason
04-25-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by South Sider
Baseball is a team sport. We want the Sox to win games and not Konerko get good stats.

And if your team needs a sac bunt from you in order to win a game the individual statistics of A N Y player have to stand back.
That's why it called sacrifice !!!!

Just look at the NL.




Look at what in the NL? I haven't seen Barry or Sammy or Jeff Bagwell or Mo Vaugn or any of those guys sacrafice bunting in my lifetime. It never happens. You have to know how to bunt...its a skill, like anything else in baseball. Granted, its not as specialized, but we wouldn't ask PK to pitch (something else he probably hasn't done since high school.) You will find the superstars try and hit to the right to advance if they're playing unselfishly, but that's about it.

Hangar18
04-25-2003, 12:25 PM
regardless of bunts, and the like...
JERRY MUST GO. The Camels back broke last nite

Fridaythe13thJason
04-25-2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
regardless of bunts, and the like...
JERRY MUST GO. The Camels back broke last nite

We have the fifth best record in the AL right now. We're behind NY, Boston, Seattle, & KC. No, it's not the best. But this is getting out of hand thinking that the season is over and Jerry must go and all these things. Criticizing bullpen decisions is the easiest thing to do. No one ever applauds the good ones, however.

We're over .500 after a bad losing stretch. I'm pretty pleased. Now we just have to get back on winning, and we'll still be fine. Soon enough, we'll be 4th in the AL, and then maybe we can catch KC after that.

Take it easy, this is baseball.

:chickenlittle

trimbo
04-25-2003, 12:56 PM
The season's not over, the sky is not falling:

a) Sox are in the AL Central
b) AL Central is arguably the weakest division in the league
c) KC is the only team ahead of us
d) Did I mention that only **KC** is ahead of the Sox?

KC's been hot, no doubt. But let's re-evaluate how serious things are later on. There're 140 games left and we're only 5 games back (and KC just had a 5 game win streak)... the Sox can still win this division.

Manuel should go if they can't do anything this year with this team. A .500 record won't be good enough. But I can't remember an occasion where firing a manager during the year accomplished anything for that season (anyone have examples of when it has?)

skihawk77
04-25-2003, 01:31 PM
I agree he should go, but last nights game wasn't his fault. He has to use the players he's given. Maybe Wunsch should have stayed in longer, but is it so much to ask for Rick White to do his f*****g job and retire some batters WITHOUT giving up a HR?

Juan Pizarro
04-25-2003, 06:04 PM
Did you not hear that White was sick, asked for the night off and still was brought in to start the 7th?
Disgraceful.
Bring Wally Backman in and light a little fire.

hold2dibber
04-25-2003, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by trimbo
Manuel should go if they can't do anything this year with this team. A .500 record won't be good enough. But I can't remember an occasion where firing a manager during the year accomplished anything for that season (anyone have examples of when it has?)

Very good question - I was thinking about this last night and couldn't come up with a single example of a team that fired a manager during the season and went on to the post season. I'm sure it has happened, but none come to mind.

StepsInSC
04-25-2003, 07:40 PM
This team is crap when it comes to fundamentals so can you blame Manual for perhaps going for the big inning. Any little league team in the nation is better concerning moving runners over.

Anyways can you say for sure that if Manual had done whatever it was you wanted him to do in all those situations, that those games would have been won?

This team has underachieved for, IMO what is going to be 3 years straight. I'm simply starting to believe that they're just not as good as their 'potential' might indicate...whatever that means.

Paulwny
04-25-2003, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Very good question - I was thinking about this last night and couldn't come up with a single example of a team that fired a manager during the season and went on to the post season. I'm sure it has happened, but none come to mind.

Posts 8,9 and 11 in this thread

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=18435&s=&perpage=15&pagenumber=1&display=show

T Dog
04-25-2003, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Very good question - I was thinking about this last night and couldn't come up with a single example of a team that fired a manager during the season and went on to the post season. I'm sure it has happened, but none come to mind.

I thought Bob Lemon accomplished that with the 1978 Yankees after he was fired by the White Sox. Some said Lemon was sleeping in the Sox dugout.

Lemon did a pretty good job of managing the Sox in 1977, awake or not. The Sox had a 7 1/2 game lead over KC on the last day of July. That's better than being 5 1/2 up in April. When 1977 was over, though, the Sox were 13 games behind KC. People remember that as a magic season, but we weren't any farther back last year.

TornLabrum
04-26-2003, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Very good question - I was thinking about this last night and couldn't come up with a single example of a team that fired a manager during the season and went on to the post season. I'm sure it has happened, but none come to mind.

Yankees did it in one of the Billy Martin years. Cubs did it twice.

chisox06
04-26-2003, 12:29 AM
More tinkering from Manuel on Friday. He benches Lee who has been on a tear lately. He puts in Sanders in a crucial part of the game a VERY unproven rookie, and he gets shelled. Hey Jerry these are division rivals and its a 3-1 ball game in the eigth, he blew another one. THIS GUY HAS GOT TO GO!! PLAY THE STARTING LINEUP PLEASE!!!!!!

TheBigHurt
04-26-2003, 12:42 AM
WELL hopefully it will happen this season :)

BE GOOD

trimbo
04-26-2003, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Yankees did it in one of the Billy Martin years. Cubs did it twice.

Also the Braves in 1883 :)

I think it was kind of a different era then because so many of those guys were player/managers.

I tried to dig up the info... so here's the hopefully definitive list of teams since 1969 that have had more than one manager in a year and have gotten to the playoffs. Note that with Cito Gaston in 91, the change was due to injury, and he came back later.

(Thanks to www.baseball-reference.com -- numbers of games managed in parens)

1996 (Wildcard) Dodgers Tom Lasorda (76) and Bill Russell (74)
1991 Blue Jays Cito Gaston (129) and Gene Tenace (33)
1989 Blue Jays Jimy Williams (36) and Cito Gaston (126)
1988 Red Sox John McNamara (85) and Joe Morgan (77 -- not THAT Joe Morgan)
1983 Phillies Pat Corrales (86) and Paul Owens (77)
1982 Brewers Buck Rodgers (47) and Harvey Kuenn (116)
1981 Royals Jim Frey (70) and Dick Howser (33)
1981 Expos Dick Williams (81) and Jim Fanning (27)
1981 Yankees Gene Michael (82) and Bob Lemon (25)
1978 Yankees Billy Martin (94), Dick Howser (1), and Bob Lemon (68)


I think that's it.
.. oh.. oh more

2003 White Sox Jerry Manuel (30) and ?? (132)