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ChiSoxBobette
04-24-2003, 08:47 PM
Can someone explain why manuel keeps trotting Gordon & White out there , is it just to get them work or what . Someone tell manuel spring training is over and if these two guys need to come into games just to make bad pitches we're not going anywhere! Also how many times do we put Konerko, who is in a bad,bad, slump(Where is our hitting coach during all these 1.90,2.00 batting averages); up there with men in scoring position just to hit into a double play, tonight bases loaded 2 outs Pauly can't come through, top of eighth inning leadoff single by Maggs Pauly double play - WHY IS'NT HE BUNTING MAGGS OVER! Maybe because our manager jerry NO FIRE manuel has'nt got a clue!
K.C. keeps winning and getting more & more confident that they are the team to beat and our mananger plays games as if hes still in spring training!
:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

voodoochile
04-24-2003, 08:57 PM
I'm not a fan of Manuel, but I don't see as he had much choice tonight. Gordon was looking better before last night and White has been alright since the first couple of games he appeared in. They missed their spots and the Orioles hit the ball hard. I'm not happy, but this is the team we have and those guys are supposed to be performing. Sometimes they don't that's life.

jeremyb1
04-24-2003, 09:05 PM
why is it always manuel's fault? isn't it possible that maybe his hands are slightly tied that when a third of his bullpen can't get an out? we paid gordon and white good money to come in and play key roles in our pen. there is no way to manage a pen with a struggling closer, two ineffective veterans, 3 lefties one of which is a rookie, and glover. there just isn't.

T Dog
04-24-2003, 09:12 PM
Manuel got as much as he could out of Stewart. Wunsch pitched another scoreless inning. When White got into trouble, he went to Gordon because the hitters coming up can't hit curveballs. We all know that Gordon has a devastating curveball. Matthews has real problems with curveballs, so Gordon should be out of the inning. I can't figure out why Matthews got a fastball on the first pitch. For a guy with such great stuff, Gordon sure makes hitting look easy.

Banix12
04-24-2003, 09:52 PM
I've been a manuel supporter but lately i've been starting to wonder if the sox need someone a little less laid back and willing to go put the fear of god into the players and light a fire under their butts. Everytime i watch the sox now i start thinking about that scene in Bull Durham where the manager yells at the team for lollygagging. I give Manuel credit. He has done a great job with the development of the team and most of the young players but I'm starting to wonder if he isn't just a Buck Showalter who can only get the team to certain level and it's getting to be the time to start shopping for that guy who can get us over the hump.

joecrede
04-24-2003, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by ChiSoxBob
Can someone explain why manuel keeps trotting Gordon & White out there , is it just to get them work or what . Someone tell manuel spring training is over and if these two guys need to come into games just to make bad pitches we're not going anywhere! Also how many times do we put Konerko, who is in a bad,bad, slump(Where is our hitting coach during all these 1.90,2.00 batting averages); up there with men in scoring position just to hit into a double play, tonight bases loaded 2 outs Pauly can't come through, top of eighth inning leadoff single by Maggs Pauly double play

Did you see the O's second baseman double-clutched on the throw to first and still got Konerko by two steps? I don't know why he even bothers. Once the infielder fields the ball he should just begin his trot back to the dugout.

gosox41
04-24-2003, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by Banix12
I've been a manuel supporter but lately i've been starting to wonder if the sox need someone a little less laid back and willing to go put the fear of god into the players and light a fire under their butts. Everytime i watch the sox now i start thinking about that scene in Bull Durham where the manager yells at the team for lollygagging. I give Manuel credit. He has done a great job with the development of the team and most of the young players but I'm starting to wonder if he isn't just a Buck Showalter who can only get the team to certain level and it's getting to be the time to start shopping for that guy who can get us over the hump.

I wish we have Schowalter over Manuel. At least Schowalter has some fire. If anything he is too hans on, but from what I read seems like an intense guy.

Bob

gosox41
04-24-2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by ChiSoxBob
Can someone explain why manuel keeps trotting Gordon & White out there , is it just to get them work or what . Someone tell manuel spring training is over and if these two guys need to come into games just to make bad pitches we're not going anywhere! Also how many times do we put Konerko, who is in a bad,bad, slump(Where is our hitting coach during all these 1.90,2.00 batting averages); up there with men in scoring position just to hit into a double play, tonight bases loaded 2 outs Pauly can't come through, top of eighth inning leadoff single by Maggs Pauly double play - WHY IS'NT HE BUNTING MAGGS OVER! Maybe because our manager jerry NO FIRE manuel has'nt got a clue!
K.C. keeps winning and getting more & more confident that they are the team to beat and our mananger plays games as if hes still in spring training!
:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:


I don't really fault Manuel got tonight's loss. The Sox signed White and Gordon to be the set up men in the 7th/8th innings. These are supposed to be the go to guys, and they are the highest paid in the bull pen. Being veterans, it's hard to give up on them so easily. If the Sox had blown this game with Glover on the mound, everyone here would be wondering why White/Gordon weren't pitching when making all this money and being war tested veterans and so forth.

While these losses are damn frustrating, it's too early to give up on these guys.

As for Konerko, I do not want to see him bunt. He has been a huge disappointment this season. Maybe it's time to pinch hit for him in clutch situations, though I can see where Jerry would want a proven veteran like Konerko to try to work his way out of his slump and maybe start justifying to me that big contract of his.

This loss is blamed on the players and not the manager. If White, Gordon and Konerko do what they get paid a lot to do then they would have won. Of course seeing as how these guys are proven veterans and making a lot of money makes it all the more frustrating.

Bob

Jjav829
04-24-2003, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by ChiSoxBob
Can someone explain why manuel keeps trotting Gordon & White out there , is it just to get them work or what . Someone tell manuel spring training is over and if these two guys need to come into games just to make bad pitches we're not going anywhere! Also how many times do we put Konerko, who is in a bad,bad, slump(Where is our hitting coach during all these 1.90,2.00 batting averages); up there with men in scoring position just to hit into a double play, tonight bases loaded 2 outs Pauly can't come through, top of eighth inning leadoff single by Maggs Pauly double play - WHY IS'NT HE BUNTING MAGGS OVER! Maybe because our manager jerry NO FIRE manuel has'nt got a clue!
K.C. keeps winning and getting more & more confident that they are the team to beat and our mananger plays games as if hes still in spring training!
:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Because he doesn't have much of a choice right now. I want Manuel gone too but don't blame him for things that are not his fault. He has 7 guys in the pen right now. You don't want White or Gordon in, so that leaves 5. Do you really want to see Sanders in that situation? No, so thats 4. Hes not gonna use Koch and I doubt you want him in either so now your down to 3 guys in the pen. Thats not gonna work. He has to go with what hes got and right now what he has to work with is not good.

Secondly, theres not much he can do with Konerko. Im extremely frustrated with Konerko right now, but would you rather have Daubach whose batting .053 up there? He isnt bunting Maggs over because Konerko cant bunt. There are also very few managers willing to take the bat out of their #5 hitters hands regardless of how much hes struggling, particularly when that hitter has been one of your more clutch hitters over the years.

The no fire thing I agree with you on.

SoxxoS
04-24-2003, 10:41 PM
I am not going to blame this loss on Jerry Manuel, however, in the future, he needs to have a set bullpen for the 8th, and 9th innings. Like the Yankees did with Wetteland and Rivera. We need a set-up man like we need a closer. In the 7th inning, he can do his tinkering with the lefty-righty and all that crap. In the 8th, I want to see 1 guy. Whether that be Marte, Wunsch or Glover, 1 GUY. Everytime. Then Koch in the 9th.

White and Flash can be brought in in games where we are either down or up by 3 or more runs. That's it. That should be a commandment.

The way I look at it, Jerry can keep doing what hes doing. However it's going to be his ass. You figure KW isn't going to take much more of this, and my pull the plug on Manuel if he doesn't get in gear here.

This team doesn't look like they are having fun out there, they look like they are just going through the motions. As far as I'm concerned, that is a direct effect on the manager.

Lip Man 1
04-24-2003, 11:50 PM
For What It's Worth.

According to the Tribune Rick White told Don Cooper BEFORE the game he had a bad upset stomach and wasn't feeling well at all.

Jerry Manuel used him anyway.

Lip

MHOUSE
04-24-2003, 11:54 PM
Manuel can't just not use White and Gordon. White has looked good since his first couple of outings and Gordon has been getting better if anything. Wunsch is still unhittable and Glover has been lights-out, but they can't go every day. Once Stewie is done and Wunsch goes the 6th, then he has to go to White because he's our middle guy now. Fault Manuel for the guys not playing hard, but not for going to the pen when he should. Did we pay Paul Konerko big $$ to bunt or get pinch hit for? He'll hit out of his slump, benching him isn't the answer.