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gosox41
04-22-2003, 10:38 AM
I am getting sick and tired of this guy. So much so that I think any time someone talks about him he should be referred to as Judy Garland. If he's going to pitch like a b****, might as well name him like one.


:jon
If I keep pitching like this I might as well click my heels together and say 'There's no place like Charlotte, Threre's no place like Charlotte...'


Bob

MHOUSE
04-22-2003, 03:52 PM
haha I'd like to see him on the mound in ruby slippers. lol! :smile:

jeremyb1
04-22-2003, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
I am getting sick and tired of this guy. So much so that I think any time someone talks about him he should be referred to as Judy Garland. If he's going to pitch like a b****, might as well name him like one.


:jon
If I keep pitching like this I might as well click my heels together and say 'There's no place like Charlotte, Threre's no place like Charlotte...'

again, i'll never understand how anyone calling themselves a fan could say hateful things like that about one of their own players but ok...

MHOUSE
04-22-2003, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
again, i'll never understand how anyone calling themselves a fan could say hateful things like that about one of their own players but ok...

Criticism is ok, but hate I dunno... I think gosox was only borderline here. Garland does bring out some anger/frustration.

konerkopeachy
04-22-2003, 10:16 PM
Wait just a cotton-pickin' minute....there's no need to be so mean.

Lay off Garland....he may have had some rough starts, but he had a good record last year and a good spring training. He'll pull through, I believe in him. I hope he gets his stuff together, I'll hate to see him go.


and Judy Garland isn't a beeyotch.... :angry:

baggio202
04-22-2003, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by konerkopeachy
Wait just a cotton-pickin' minute....there's no need to be so mean.

Lay off Garland....he may have had some rough starts, but he had a good record last year and a good spring training. He'll pull through, I believe in him. I hope he gets his stuff together, I'll hate to see him go.


and Judy Garland isn't a beeyotch.... :angry:

garland didnt have a good record last year...garland was 12-12 on a 500 team..thats about as mediocre as mediocre gets

lowesox
04-22-2003, 10:34 PM
He had an awesome start the game before. I know that Garland is testing our patience, but he is a guy who could also rebound and throw 30 consecutive scoreless innings. AND I just feel like one day he'll click and never look back.

I know its a little beyod preaching patience, but as long as the top three are looking good (and they have been) we can afford a little inconsistency. AS long as its inconsistency, and not pitching poorly everytime out.

baggio202
04-22-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
He had an awesome start the game before. I know that Garland is testing our patience, but he is a guy who could also rebound and throw 30 consecutive scoreless innings. AND I just feel like one day he'll click and never look back.

I know its a little beyod preaching patience, but as long as the top three are looking good (and they have been) we can afford a little inconsistency. AS long as its inconsistency, and not pitching poorly everytime out.

you got a point there...but lets in the next 3 styarts garland gives us real good on , a mediocre one and a stinker...josh stewart does about the same and danny wright is ready to to return to the rotation...who do you drop???

delben91
04-22-2003, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
you got a point there...but lets in the next 3 styarts garland gives us real good on , a mediocre one and a stinker...josh stewart does about the same and danny wright is ready to to return to the rotation...who do you drop???

Tough...but I'd have to go with Stewart, only because he's got to have more options left than Garland (does he have any left?). While Jon has been inconsistent at best thus far, losing him for nothing isn't the approach I'd want to take.

gosox41
04-23-2003, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Criticism is ok, but hate I dunno... I think gosox was only borderline here. Garland does bring out some anger/frustration.


I am just frustrated by Garland. I certianly don't hate him. His stroggles are not all his fault as I do believe the Sox rushed him. Some see him as a young pitcher (23) who needs time to develop. I see him as a pitcher with 3+ years of ML expereince who needs to develop consistency.

The toughest thing of watching him is not knowing which Garland is going to show up-Jon or Judy. Every pitcher is going to have bad outings, but the good (and great ) keep them to a minimum.

Garland has the physical ability to be dominant. With his physical talent, there's no reason why he shouldn't put up the numbers of a #2 starter over the course of a season. So far he hasn't looked like a #5 starter.

I do feel that he has been given every opportunity to succeed. I'll give Manuel credit for trying to build his confidence when he is on. After reading the papers, it seems like Coop has spent a lot of time working with him and his mental approach. The fans have certainly coddled him over the last couple of years. The fact that he was booed the other day at US Cellular is a sign of the fans frustration (mine included). Garland made mention of this in the paper about how much it hurts. Maybe he should use it as motivation to prove himself. Nothing else seems to work. If a guy like Fisk were catching, I think Garland would be much more effective because he wouldn't put up with this inconsistency. Someone needs to light a fire under Garland and it might as well be the fans.

It's not a question of hatred. But he is one of the 3 key players that need to come through if the Sox are gojng to have a shot at the playoffs. Right now I see him as a James Baldwin (when he was healthy)---a $10 mill. arm and 5 cent heart.

Bob

hold2dibber
04-23-2003, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
It's not a question of hatred. But he is one of the 3 key players that need to come through if the Sox are gojng to have a shot at the playoffs. Right now I see him as a James Baldwin (when he was healthy)---a $10 mill. arm and 5 cent heart.

Bob

Wow - my impression of Baldwin is the polar opposite. Lots of heart, not much talent. I always thought he was a guy who gutted it out on the mound, but never really had above-average stuff. Maybe I'm too focused on the end of the Baldwin era instead of the beginning. Where the hell is he now, anyway? Pitching in AAA for the Royals?

Bobby Thigpen
04-23-2003, 10:07 AM
I thought that JB always played with a lot of heart, especially in late 2000. I think the people that say he never really lived up to his talent listened a little too much to the Sox PR machine that hypes up every prospect, especially pitchers. According to them JB was the next great thing to come down the road for the Sox. I just think that he didn't really have all the talent they cracked him up to have. I won't accuse JB of being the brightest guy (pitching wise) on earth, but I never felt that he shorted the Sox on effort. In fact his effort was one of the reasons JB will always be one of my favorite Sox.

gosox41
04-23-2003, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Bobby Thigpen
I thought that JB always played with a lot of heart, especially in late 2000. I think the people that say he never really lived up to his talent listened a little too much to the Sox PR machine that hypes up every prospect, especially pitchers. According to them JB was the next great thing to come down the road for the Sox. I just think that he didn't really have all the talent they cracked him up to have. I won't accuse JB of being the brightest guy (pitching wise) on earth, but I never felt that he shorted the Sox on effort. In fact his effort was one of the reasons JB will always be one of my favorite Sox.

I remember back in 1999 JB had a bad outing against the Red Sox and Pedro. After the game Pedro pulled him aside and told him that he had better stuff then Pedro and should be pitching a lot better. Maybe I read to much into that comment but when JB was healthy he had one of the best curveballs in baseball and a 92-92 MPH fast ball to complement it.

I think after JB got hurt he had to learn how to be a finesse pitcher and that's where it started looking like he was showing some heart.

Bob

fuzzy_patters
04-23-2003, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
I remember back in 1999 JB had a bad outing against the Red Sox and Pedro. After the game Pedro pulled him aside and told him that he had better stuff then Pedro and should be pitching a lot better. Maybe I read to much into that comment but when JB was healthy he had one of the best curveballs in baseball and a 92-92 MPH fast ball to complement it.

I think after JB got hurt he had to learn how to be a finesse pitcher and that's where it started looking like he was showing some heart.

Bob

I would agree with that. The first three or four years of Baldwin's career he bounced back and forth between the rotation, the bullpen, and AAA. It wasn't because he had a big heart. At that time he had a terrible habit by throwing one brilliant half and one terrible half of every season. He was a model of inconsistency.

John Garland may need a personal catcher that isn't afraid to yell at him. The one thing that could always spark a good half from Baldwin was to reaquire Chad Krueter. Maybe Josh Paul could develop into that guy. That way he would have some value.