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View Full Version : Is it too early to start trade rumors?


MJL_Sox_Fan
04-19-2003, 01:24 AM
Ok, it is only April, but.... What about trading Willy Harris who is tearing up AAA for another middle reliever? You can never have too much depth in the bullpen and where is Harris going to play on the major league team?

hose
04-19-2003, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by MJL_Sox_Fan
Ok, it is only April, but.... What about trading Willy Harris who is tearing up AAA for another middle reliever? You can never have too much depth in the bullpen and where is Harris going to play on the major league team?


Besides giving WSI's one and only, The Big Hurt, a heart attack I think it's to early to think about moving Willie.

Jiminez has been doing a very good job at 2nd and Tony G is more than capable as the teams utility player. If Tony had just a little more speed I think he would be the best utility man in MLB. As it is he is right near the top, but let's assume he will stay in his present role.

The Sox really don't have a SS down on the farm that is ready to play in the bigs. Tony G and Jiminez both can play SS in the short term and Jiminez can fill in the long term if Valentin is not signed next year.

Besides being insurance I don't think Willie is going to be moved because his salary is minimal...and the price is right for Reinsdorf.

TheBigHurt
04-19-2003, 11:57 AM
ARE you kidding trade Wee Wee Willie he can do so many things so i dont know where to start :)


AND no its never too early to talk rumors

guillen4life13
04-19-2003, 12:05 PM
How bout we trade the Chicago White Sox for the New York Yankees and cash? So in essence, all of the guys on the Sox would be Yankees, and all of the Yankees would be Sox. And then: We would also get a good 120 million with which to pay all those suckers.

Or, better yet, we trade Jerry Reinsdorf for George Steinbrenner! I think that would be the best trade to happen in the history of the White Sox!

Just messin'.

TheBigHurt
04-19-2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
How bout we trade the Chicago White Sox for the New York Yankees and cash? So in essence, all of the guys on the Sox would be Yankees, and all of the Yankees would be Sox. And then: We would also get a good 120 million with which to pay all those suckers.

Or, better yet, we trade Jerry Reinsdorf for George Steinbrenner! I think that would be the best trade to happen in the history of the White Sox!

Just messin'.

YOU betta i hate Georgey and his dam ballclub the Yankmees :angry: :angry:

NOW the Metropolitans i like :)

BE GOOD not you georgy im not talkin to you

guillen4life13
04-19-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by TheBigHurt
YOU betta i hate Georgey and his dam ballclub the Yankmees :angry: :angry:

NOW the Metropolitans i like :)

BE GOOD not you georgy im not talkin to you

Hey, now wouldn' you be happy if George Steinbrenner owned the White Sox and Jerry Reinsdorf owned the Yankees? The Sox would then have had 4 World Series in the last 10 years! This time I ain't messin'. :D:

Tragg
04-19-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by MJL_Sox_Fan
Ok, it is only April, but.... What about trading Willy Harris who is tearing up AAA for another middle reliever? You can never have too much depth in the bullpen and where is Harris going to play on the major league team?

Absolutely not.
We have a lot of capable middle relievers; too many plugs up the pipeline for young pitchers; middle relievers are the least valuble commodity in baseball.

WinningUgly!
04-19-2003, 03:32 PM
I would say adding another everyday lefthanded bat to the lineup would be a greater need than another middle reliever.

calebhatesyou
04-19-2003, 04:00 PM
i agree with ugly, alot of people will post in defense of willie

guillen4life13
04-19-2003, 04:05 PM
Here are the needs this club has (and these needs are in no way dire), as far as I see it:

Starting CF for a contract that ends at the end of this year (a capable CF who is almost guaranteed to produce... preferably left handed or switch). Borchard or Harris can fill that need.

Possibly another starting pitcher of #4/#5 quality on a World Series team. As far as this year has gone, Loaiza has proven himself to be at least a #3 caliber pitcher for a contender. I like the sound of this type of rotation:

Mark Buehrle
Bartolo Colon
Esteban Loaiza
Chuck Finley/Jon Garland
Jon Rauch/Dan Wright/Josh Stewart (odd men out go to pen or AAA)

In my opinion, Willie is not the man to trade. Who is?
:versatile
"Uh oh."

Now, if only there was a nice, stupid, GM who would bite that bait. Paul can't be sent down, so why not trade him? How nice would that be? It would be like Damaso Marte's situation was in Pittsburgh. They were planning on sending him down, thus putting him on waivers, and anyone could have taken him. Instead the Sox traded Matt Guerrier (IIRC) for him. Jamie Burke is, in my opinion, capable of being a backup in the event of Sandy going down (here's hoping Jamie Burke is still in the Sox organization). Randar or someone with knowledge of the farm and that situation would be best suited to reply this post.

voodoochile
04-19-2003, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
Now, if only there was a nice, stupid, GM who would bite that bait. Paul can't be sent down, so why not trade him? How nice would that be? It would be like Damaso Marte's situation was in Pittsburgh. They were planning on sending him down, thus putting him on waivers, and anyone could have taken him. Instead the Sox traded Matt Guerrier (IIRC) for him. Jamie Burke is, in my opinion, capable of being a backup in the event of Sandy going down (here's hoping Jamie Burke is still in the Sox organization). Randar or someone with knowledge of the farm and that situation would be best suited to reply this post.

Well, if Olivo keep hitting like he did today and has recently, he IS the backup. Josh's days on this club are quickly coming to an end, IMO.

gosox41
04-19-2003, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
Here are the needs this club has (and these needs are in no way dire), as far as I see it:

Starting CF for a contract that ends at the end of this year (a capable CF who is almost guaranteed to produce... preferably left handed or switch). Borchard or Harris can fill that need.

Possibly another starting pitcher of #4/#5 quality on a World Series team. As far as this year has gone, Loaiza has proven himself to be at least a #3 caliber pitcher for a contender. I like the sound of this type of rotation:

Mark Buehrle
Bartolo Colon
Esteban Loaiza
Chuck Finley/Jon Garland
Jon Rauch/Dan Wright/Josh Stewart (odd men out go to pen or AAA)

In my opinion, Willie is not the man to trade. Who is?
:versatile
"Uh oh."

Now, if only there was a nice, stupid, GM who would bite that bait. Paul can't be sent down, so why not trade him? How nice would that be? It would be like Damaso Marte's situation was in Pittsburgh. They were planning on sending him down, thus putting him on waivers, and anyone could have taken him. Instead the Sox traded Matt Guerrier (IIRC) for him. Jamie Burke is, in my opinion, capable of being a backup in the event of Sandy going down (here's hoping Jamie Burke is still in the Sox organization). Randar or someone with knowledge of the farm and that situation would be best suited to reply this post.


Maybe the Sox should trade Koch while people think he still has value. Too bad KW can't trade with himself, then this team would be a World Series contender.

Bob

lowesox
04-19-2003, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13

Possibly another starting pitcher of #4/#5 quality on a World Series team. As far as this year has gone, Loaiza has proven himself to be at least a #3 caliber pitcher for a contender. I like the sound of this type of rotation:

Mark Buehrle
Bartolo Colon
Esteban Loaiza
Chuck Finley/Jon Garland
Jon Rauch/Dan Wright/Josh Stewart (odd men out go to pen or AAA)



Sorry, but this one of the greediest posts I've read on this site. If there's one team right now who doesn't need another starting pitcher its the sox. We have more than 5 guys who you could expect a win from. If anything, we could trade one of our starters to address another need.

What this team does need is a speedster at the top of the order. (Move Jiminez to number two). Maybe trade Carlos Lee and Josh Stewart to Toronto for Shannon Stewart.

Daver
04-20-2003, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
Sorry, but this one of the greediest posts I've read on this site. If there's one team right now who doesn't need another starting pitcher its the sox. We have more than 5 guys who you could expect a win from. If anything, we could trade one of our starters to address another need.

What this team does need is a speedster at the top of the order. (Move Jiminez to number two). Maybe trade Carlos Lee and Josh Stewart to Toronto for Shannon Stewart.

Why not just call up Joe Borchard?

guillen4life13
04-20-2003, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
Sorry, but this one of the greediest posts I've read on this site. If there's one team right now who doesn't need another starting pitcher its the sox. We have more than 5 guys who you could expect a win from. If anything, we could trade one of our starters to address another need.

What this team does need is a speedster at the top of the order. (Move Jiminez to number two). Maybe trade Carlos Lee and Josh Stewart to Toronto for Shannon Stewart.
Two things: a) As a Sox fan, I think I have the right to be greedy, because there are only two other teams whose true fans can have that right: The BoSox and the Scrubs. We want a championship, and it hasn't come in a good 86 years.
b) I don't think that we have more than 5 guys who are consistent winners. Dan Wright may have won 14 games last year, but I look at his ERA, and I think, "Damn, the guy must have had crazy run support." Garland, though I think he will bloom within the next couple of years, has been very inconsistent. Rauch is coming off of surgery and has not shown consistency at the Major League level (now, he's been doing well in AAA, but Spring Training wasn't exactly the best thing to happen for him). That takes care of three people. Josh Stewart is a possible surprise, but until we see this type of performance against a good hitting ballclub like the A's, Yanks, and/or BoSox with consistency, I don't think we can put that much money on him. That takes care of four pitchers. Glover? Ha! Ginter? HA!
As far as I can see it, there are three consistent WINNERS that are in/possibly will join the rotation during 2003: Buehrle, Colon, and Loaiza. I'm not saying that the Sox should trade any of the young arms... good gracious no! At least 2, probably 3 of them are going to bloom and be solid, if not top of the rotation caliber pitchers at the Major League level. But--and yes, I'm greedy--I want a championship in 2003! Granted, I'm young, and haven't had to wait as long as almost everyone on this board, but I've learned enough to see that there has always been a "Wait 'til next year" mentality. That needs to be amended. Think about how great that rotation would be if the added someone like Chuck Finley to it, as a fourth starter! I mean, just last year and two years ago, he was Cleveland's number two starter, and was a starter on the Cards.

Jimenez is doing a fine job in the leadoff position. He's stolen bases here and there, and his OBP is up there. That's all you need from a leadoff hitter. Above all, he's a smart runner, and has very good patience at the plate. He may not be the fastest, but he's doing what he was signed to do.

Although many of us are in the "Trade Carlos" club, I have to say I'm not. Carlos is starting to heat up, and when he gets hot, he's capable of carrying the team.

Banix12
04-20-2003, 04:50 AM
The only reason i think we need to stick with Garland and even Wright for a while in the rotation is that if we are really serious about these guys being future starters i think sending them back down to the minors or having them sit in the bullpen as long releivers would be more of a step backward in their development. Though i admit that Stewart has been somewhat impressive albeit against weak teams. I'll be curious to see what they do with him. Anyway, we are 11-6 and admittedly not exactly playing the best baseball. Let's let the team and the weather heat up a bit before going into tinker mode.

lowesox
04-20-2003, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by daver
Why not just call up Joe Borchard?

I don't think Borchard is ready, and I don't really think he's the right fit for what I think we need.

What I'd like is a real demon. Sort of like Kenny Lofton for as early last year, who gets on base, steals second, finds a way to third and scores with apparent ease. With our pitching staff, one run in the first makes a big difference. AND with all the pitches he takes and his ability to go to right field, wouldn't Jimenez be a great hitter to come up with a speedster like that on first and nobody out?

lowesox
04-20-2003, 10:52 AM
It's really easy to speculate with pitchers. And with most of them, its easy to find a way to knock their potential. But the fact of the matter is Wright and Garland won something like 26 games together last season. That would be significantly higher than what most number 4 and 5 guys are going to put up together. When Dan Wright comes back this will be one of the best rotations is baseball.

And I'm talking about what these guys bring to the team this year. (In the future, they'll bring more)

Does anybody have any statistics on which team has had the most quality starts this season, because I'd be surprised to hear that whitesox weren't leading this category.

So why go out and get a guy like Finley - who's expensive - and you'd have to hope gives you the same thing one of our younger pitchers has.

Afterall with Finley's age it would be very easy to speculate and say that he'd have a terrible season for the sox.

guillen4life13
04-20-2003, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by lowesox


I don't think Borchard is ready, and I don't really think he's the right fit for what I think we need.

What I'd like is a real demon. Sort of like Kenny Lofton for as early last year, who gets on base, steals second, finds a way to third and scores with apparent ease. With our pitching staff, one run in the first makes a big difference. AND with all the pitches he takes and his ability to go to right field, wouldn't Jimenez be a great hitter to come up with a speedster like that on first and nobody out?

I'd love exactly what you want, but we just have to keep this in mind: There aren't really any people who fit that profile anymore. Shannon Stewart (who you mentioned earlier) had only 14 stolen bases last year. Jimenez is easily going to top taht this year. I think that the person who you want is Willie Harris, but he isn't ready yet. He's gonna need at least this year to get to where he'll need to be. And he needs to learn plate discipline.


Originally posted by lowesox
It's really easy to speculate with pitchers. And with most of them, its easy to find a way to knock their potential. But the fact of the matter is Wright and Garland won something like 26 games together last season. That would be significantly higher than what most number 4 and 5 guys are going to put up together. When Dan Wright comes back this will be one of the best rotations is baseball.

And I'm talking about what these guys bring to the team this year. (In the future, they'll bring more)

Does anybody have any statistics on which team has had the most quality starts this season, because I'd be surprised to hear that whitesox weren't leading this category.

So why go out and get a guy like Finley - who's expensive - and you'd have to hope gives you the same thing one of our younger pitchers has.

Afterall with Finley's age it would be very easy to speculate and say that he'd have a terrible season for the sox.

I understand everything you say, and to a certain extent, I agree. The sox I believe did lead in quality starts, but hear me out:

Wright had an ERA over 5. That does not make me feel good at all, even if he did win that 14 games. He always has that big inning, and to add on to my point, he's coming off an injury, or something close to an injury I guess.
Garland had a 4.58 ERA, which is not bad for a 4th/5th starter, but he also had a 12-12 record (.500). IMO, if the Sox were to sign Finley, Garland or Wright would take the remaining spot.

The argument you make on Chuck Finley is without a doubt valid. You can also argue his 11-15 record. Just to keep it in context, the great majority of that record was earned while playing for a mediocre Cleveland team last year. He had a 4.15 ERA, which is what I would expect out of a good #4 pitcher on a contender. I don't think he will ask for too much money, as he is unsigned right now, and would probably be desperate for a chance.

voodoochile
04-20-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
I understand everything you say, and to a certain extent, I agree. The sox I believe did lead in quality starts, but hear me out:

Wright had an ERA over 5. That does not make me feel good at all, even if he did win that 14 games. He always has that big inning, and to add on to my point, he's coming off an injury, or something close to an injury I guess.
Garland had a 4.58 ERA, which is not bad for a 4th/5th starter, but he also had a 12-12 record (.500). IMO, if the Sox were to sign Finley, Garland or Wright would take the remaining spot.

The argument you make on Chuck Finley is without a doubt valid. You can also argue his 11-15 record. Just to keep it in context, the great majority of that record was earned while playing for a mediocre Cleveland team last year. He had a 4.15 ERA, which is what I would expect out of a good #4 pitcher on a contender. I don't think he will ask for too much money, as he is unsigned right now, and would probably be desperate for a chance.

From what I understand, Finley has said he only wants to sign in California so he can be close to home most of the time due to family problems (read: his wife is a flaming psycho).

I think the natural inclination is to want 5 veteran starters, but I also think that both Danny and Garland deserve a chance to prove they do or do not belong in the rotation. Last year was a big step for both of them and they were just starting to find some consistency when the season ended. I don't want to see the Sox mess with their heads at this point in time by not allowing them to get a solid shot. Both this season and the following ones may depend on these kids and sending the message that they just aren't good enough, no matter what they do is a bad precedent to set, IMO...

BTW, last year in 5 of his starts, DW gave up 20 ER and only pitched 15 innnings. For the rest of his starts he compiled a 4.5 ERA. His problem has been consistency, not ability...

lowesox
04-20-2003, 12:41 PM
BASED ON GUILLEN4LIFE'S POST:

You make a great point. Wright and Garland might be inconsistent this year, and I agree this is not a good year for inconsistency. But right now the team ERA is second in the AL (only to the Royals who will surely soon fall) - so I say lets stick with what we have now. Then if we're in playoff contention in July then we start talking about somebody who might be a little more surefire then Finley.

As far as my wish-list outfielder, I'd love a guy like Dave Roberts on L.A. who has 9 steals and an OBP somewhere near .400. He also bats left which I think is a plus. He'd be a perfect fit for the sox, and LA has looked ****ty this season. Maybe he's a guy KW should be keeping his eye on.

Am I the only guy at WSI who thinks the sox would benefit from sliding Jimenez down to 2nd and get a speedster for the top spot in the ordeR?

guillen4life13
04-20-2003, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


From what I understand, Finley has said he only wants to sign in California so he can be close to home most of the time due to family problems (read: his wife is a flaming psycho).

I think the natural inclination is to want 5 veteran starters, but I also think that both Danny and Garland deserve a chance to prove they do or do not belong in the rotation. Last year was a big step for both of them and they were just starting to find some consistency when the season ended. I don't want to see the Sox mess with their heads at this point in time by not allowing them to get a solid shot. Both this season and the following ones may depend on these kids and sending the message that they just aren't good enough, no matter what they do is a bad precedent to set, IMO...

BTW, last year in 5 of his starts, DW gave up 20 ER and only pitched 15 innnings. For the rest of his starts he compiled a 4.5 ERA. His problem has been consistency, not ability...

I agree with you, and your point of "consistency, not ability" is the point I'm trying to make. I don't want to get rid of him or anything. I just want the best staff possible for '03. I just don't think there' been a better year for the Sox to just go all out and go for the gold. Get that solid experienced guy who will truly put them over, and make them not just world series contenders, but possibly favorites. Ya know what I mean? To quote Queen: "I want it all, I want it all, I want it all, and I want it now!" It's greedy but I think it's time to go all or nothing.

Tawny Kitaen (or however you spell it). I've heard all about that stuff. Chuck won't go anyplace else though? Didn't know about that.


Originally posted by lowesox
BASED ON GUILLEN4LIFE'S POST:

You make a great point. Wright and Garland might be inconsistent this year, and I agree this is not a good year for inconsistency. But right now the team ERA is second in the AL (only to the Royals who will surely soon fall) - so I say lets stick with what we have now. Then if we're in playoff contention in July then we start talking about somebody who might be a little more surefire then Finley.

As far as my wish-list outfielder, I'd love a guy like Dave Roberts on L.A. who has 9 steals and an OBP somewhere near .400. He also bats left which I think is a plus. He'd be a perfect fit for the sox, and LA has looked ****ty this season. Maybe he's a guy KW should be keeping his eye on.

Am I the only guy at WSI who thinks the sox would benefit from sliding Jimenez down to 2nd and get a speedster for the top spot in the ordeR?

The team is second in the AL with ERA, but against who? That's what we always have to keep in mind. 6 games against the tigers, 6 against the Indians, and 6 against the Royals. So far only one of those teams has shown any offensive capabilities. What's gonna happen when the Sox staff meets the Yankees, BoSox, or A's hitters? So they've shown they can dominate the mediocre clubs. What about the contenders and favorites for the pennant? That's where I'm worried. Dave Roberts? If they can get him, great, but of what I know, he's pretty highly touted, eh? It'll probably take something to get him from LA, and we can't forget that Dan Evans knows who to try and get from the Sox, because he was here just a couple years ago and knows who the prospects are.


I know what I'm saying is compromising the future, but I think that finally the future is here. We've been saying that we have so many prospects and the future is going to bring us a world series, etc. Why not make the future be October 2003? I surely wouldn't mind that.

lowesox
04-20-2003, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
Dave Roberts? If they can get him, great, but of what I know, he's pretty highly touted, eh? It'll probably take something to get him from LA

I think that if we are going to address needs, then we should go after people who are good bets at being solutions. I think Roberts could be that guy, and I'd be willing to give up something good to get him. Maybe Carlos Lee? Maybe more.

If you're going get a guy like that though, get him early. A good leadoff hitter plays an intricate role in chemistry, so he'll need time to settle.

MHOUSE
04-21-2003, 01:40 AM
Ok the Sox need a CF and they need a long-term solution at SS. I think that it would be nice to re-sign Jose but unless we get a cheap deal then it's not worth it. An infield of Crede, Jimenez, Harris, Konerko is possible and Lee, Rowand/Rios, and Maggs in the OF. I think Borchard would be a good RF next year to move Maggs to LF and get a real CF. Then C Lee would need to DH if he continues to produce and Frank won't be around forever (like Jose). We have enough starters to produce/cover I don't think we need SP. Glover, Marte, Wunsch look good in the 'pen but White and Gordon are short term and Koch is still unproven to us. That's the long-term issue is the bullpen. But it's tough to find a bullpen guy who sticks around more than a year or two so maybe it won't matter.

TheBigHurt
04-21-2003, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
Am I the only guy at WSI who thinks the sox would benefit from sliding Jimenez down to 2nd and get a speedster for the top spot in the ordeR?

YES i think you are :)

maurice
04-21-2003, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by daver
Why not just call up Joe Borchard?

I thing they'll stay with a Rios / Rowand platoon for the time being, at least until Rios' bat cools off.

They'll likely wait until LTP gets into a HR streak before calling him up, so that would rule him out for the time being. He has zero HRs so far and, IIRC, hasn't played since being removed from a game on April 15. Looks like he's nicked up.

KW is more likely to call up Harris to play CF. It seems like KW loves Harris, who is tearing it up in AAA (.418 AVE / .475 OBP / .727 SLG / 4 HRs !!!) and recently started some games in CF in place of LTP after playing most of the season at 2B.

voodoochile
04-21-2003, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by maurice
KW is more likely to call up Harris to play CF. It seems like KW loves Harris, who is tearing it up in AAA (.418 AVE / .475 OBP / .727 SLG / 4 HRs !!!) and recently started some games in CF in place of LTP after playing most of the season at 2B.

Don't get me wrong, I am happy that Harris is hitting well, but why would we be excited about a future leadoff hitter hitting home runs? Ray used to swing for the fences and NO ONE liked it. IIRC, Isn't AAA a hitters park? The kid needs to practice bouncing baseballs off of home plate and using his speed.

maurice
04-21-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Don't get me wrong, I am happy that Harris is hitting well, but why would we be excited about a future leadoff hitter hitting home runs? Ray used to swing for the fences and NO ONE liked it. IIRC, Isn't AAA a hitters park? The kid needs to practice bouncing baseballs off of home plate and using his speed.

I agree. Though some actually like leadoff hitters who swing for the fences, I'm not among them. However, he also has a good OBP and 4 SB (more than anyone on the big-league club).

I'm not a big Willie fan (no pun intended) and don't want him called up any time soon. I just included his power numbers to show his overall production, which KW surely would look if he decides to call up one of our AAA CFs.