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czalgosz
04-18-2003, 12:25 PM
The top 3 teams in the AL in staff ERA are the Royals (3.20), the Twins (3.22) and the White Sox (3.30).

All three of these teams have faced the Tigers six times. God, the Tigers are awful.

Tigers team offensive numbers - .165/.234/.236. They have scored 26 runs, last in the American League. 13th is Cleveland, who have scored 51 runs. Either the White Sox, Royals, and Twins have just outstanding pitching, or the Tigers are historically bad.

dougs78
04-18-2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
The top 3 teams in the AL in staff ERA are the Royals (3.20), the Twins (3.22) and the White Sox (3.30).

All three of these teams have faced the Tigers six times. God, the Tigers are awful.

Tigers team offensive numbers - .165/.234/.236. They have scored 26 runs, last in the American League. 13th is Cleveland, who have scored 51 runs. Either the White Sox, Royals, and Twins have just outstanding pitching, or the Tigers are historically bad.

good point as usual Czal. Unfortunately, while i'd love to believe that the White Sox (along with KC and Minn) have outstanding pitching, I'm much more inclined to buy the latter possibility.

I also think this bears of importance when watching Stewart tomorrow, and probably more importantly against a team besides the Indians, before getting too excited with his performance. I personally think hes been fine so far, but I'm also looking forward to him going back to AAA and being replaced by a healthy Dan Wright.

TornLabrum
04-18-2003, 12:43 PM
I nominate the Detroit Tigers as the Cleveland Spiders of the 21st Century.

hold2dibber
04-18-2003, 01:23 PM
According to SportsCenter this morning, NL pitchers have a higher BA, more HRs, and more RBIs this season than the entire Tigers roster. That is absolutely amazing.

kevingrt
04-18-2003, 02:25 PM
The Tiggers are just damn horriable, the worst team ever???

Foulke You
04-18-2003, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by kevingrt
The Tiggers are just damn horriable, the worst team ever???

The worst team in MLB history was the 1962 Mets. Last place with a league worst 40W-120L record. The Mets finished 60.5 games out of first place. It should be noted that the Mets were an expansion team in 1962. The Tigers have no such excuse. Can the Tigers win 43 games this year and avoid the embarassment of finishing with the MLB loss record?

czalgosz
04-18-2003, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
The worst team in MLB history was the 1962 Mets. Last place with a league worst 40W-120L record. The Mets finished 60.5 games out of first place. It should be noted that the Mets were an expansion team in 1962. The Tigers have no such excuse. Can the Tigers win 43 games this year and avoid the embarassment of finishing with the MLB loss record?

I'm sure you mean in modern history - the 1899 Cleveland Spiders finished 20-134, 84 games out of first.

Foulke You
04-18-2003, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
I'm sure you mean in modern history - the 1899 Cleveland Spiders finished 20-134, 84 games out of first.

I didn't know that. I always thought it was the '62 Mets. Is that considered the "official" MLB loss record?

Nellie_Fox
04-18-2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
I'm sure you mean in modern history - the 1899 Cleveland Spiders finished 20-134, 84 games out of first. It's good to see that history major paying off.

czalgosz
04-18-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
I didn't know that. I always thought it was the '62 Mets. Is that considered the "official" MLB loss record?

As far as I know...

czalgosz
04-18-2003, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
It's good to see that history major paying off.

Hey, it's got to be good for something, right?

czalgosz
04-18-2003, 07:18 PM
My favorite really really bad team - the 1902 Baltimore Orioles. John McGraw started the season as manager and part-time player, but the management of the New York Giants gave him part ownership in exchange for skipping Baltimore.

McGraw took most of the good players on the Orioles with him and moved to New York, leaving the Orioles without even enough players to field a team. (Remember, this is before the World Series, when the American League and National League were in direct competition for fans).

The owners of the American League stepped in, pooled their money, and purchased the team, staffing it with also-rans from their organizations. The Orioles went 12-43 in August and September, for a final record of 50-88, 34 games out.

After the season, the AL sold the team to a group who promptly moved the team to New York and renamed it the Highlanders (later the Yankees).

Ever wonder why the Yankees, even though they are a charter member of the AL, waited until 2003 to celebrate their centennial? Apparently they don't want to be associated with the ignominy that is the original Baltimore Orioles.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-18-2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
....Ever wonder why the Yankees, even though they are a charter member of the AL, waited until 2003 to celebrate their centennial? Apparently they don't want to be associated with the ignominy that is the original Baltimore Orioles.

This sounds like a question Torn could answer. However, I believe the charter for each franchise specifies the city they must play in. Anytime a franchise moves, the charter must be re-written or amended by the league. Thus the only "charter members" left from the original American League are:

1. Chicago,
2. Cleveland,
3. Detroit, and
4. Boston.

These are the only teams that wore the special "charter" patches during the 2001 league centennial season.

The Yankees are carpetbaggers. They're really no different than the Athletics who moved from Philly, to K.C., to Oakland; or the Senators who moved from D.C. to Minneapolis; or for that matter (LMAO!), Selig's carpetbagging Brewers, nee the Seattle Pilots.

Yankee Tradition--bite me.

:gulp:

TornLabrum
04-18-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
My favorite really really bad team - the 1902 Baltimore Orioles. John McGraw started the season as manager and part-time player, but the management of the New York Giants gave him part ownership in exchange for skipping Baltimore.

McGraw took most of the good players on the Orioles with him and moved to New York, leaving the Orioles without even enough players to field a team. (Remember, this is before the World Series, when the American League and National League were in direct competition for fans).

The owners of the American League stepped in, pooled their money, and purchased the team, staffing it with also-rans from their organizations. The Orioles went 12-43 in August and September, for a final record of 50-88, 34 games out.

After the season, the AL sold the team to a group who promptly moved the team to New York and renamed it the Highlanders (later the Yankees).

Ever wonder why the Yankees, even though they are a charter member of the AL, waited until 2003 to celebrate their centennial? Apparently they don't want to be associated with the ignominy that is the original Baltimore Orioles.

One slight correction. It should read the original AL version of the Baltimore Orioles. The original Orioles were a charter member of the American Association in 1882. They dropped out of the AA in 1880 and were replaced by the Brooklyn Gladiators who failed to complete the season. When Brooklyn went belly up, the Orioles were asked to finish their season.

After the Players League mess in 1890, the AA went belly up after the 1892 season when they went to war against the National League. The Orioles were one of four clubs from the AA who were absorbed into the NL. The Orioles of the 1890s were the club that made John McGraw and Wee Willie Keeler into superstars. When the NL contracted after the 1899 season, the Orioles were dumped. The AL Orioles were a completely different franchise.

The reason for McGraw's decision to leave the AL went beyond part ownership of the Giants. When the "Old Orioles" were broken up a couple of years before they folded, most of their nucleus went to Brooklyn which shared ownership with the Orioles. (Syndicate ownership was common in the 1890s. The 1899 Cleveland Spiders shared owenrship with the St. Louis Browns, now the Cardinals.) McGraw asked not to be transferred because he has business interests (a bowling alley/restaurant or something like that) in Baltimore.

So when Ban Johnson offered him the job or running the new Orioles, McGraw jumped at the chance. The problem was that McGraw stood for the opposite of everything Johnson and Charles Comiskey wanted for the new league. The old Orioles were the dirtiest club in baseball, intimidating opponents and umpires with impunity and cheating whenever they got the chance. (McGraw used to speak with pride about grabbing opponents by the belt buckles as they rounded the bases, or Orioles runners racking from first base directly to third when the single umpire's back was turned to follow a play.)

Johnson wanted clean baseball and the end of intimidation of umpires. He was involved in several incidents and garnered a number of suspensions from Johnson. He'd just lost another battle with the league president when the deal was made with John T. Brush, the new Giants owner.