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View Full Version : Should this franshise even be in Chicago?


white sox bill
04-16-2003, 10:37 AM
My heart bleeds Sox black, don't get me wrong I LOVE this team. But lets face facts, they are up against a media giant in the Scrub organization, Uncle Jerry will never go that extra mile to get a WS ring, wer'e all seen as second rate citizens, out Park is discounted (although wrongly) as sterile with no atmoshpere in a blighted part of town. The list could go on and on...

Now add this(The KC debacle)I gotta wonder if the Sox's better days may be in another city. Hope not.....

Rocky Soprano
04-16-2003, 10:39 AM
You forgot the teal there buddy.

Lip Man 1
04-16-2003, 10:45 AM
Rocky:

I think the thread starter was serious. And I think his thoughts should be taken seriously.

Sox author/ historian Rich Lindberg said in his interview with WSI that he was concerned about the future of this team in Chicago if and when Reinsdorf finally goes away. Phil Rogers said the question of what happens to the Sox after Uncle Jerry, has been discussed in the Tribune offices without an answer.

I grant you the Sox just signed an extension to play in Comiskey Park however contracts can be bought out. It's not easy but it can be done.

I don't think the Sox are ever going to move but not for the reasons you may think. They won't move because there are no cities left with sufficiant size to support them. (I'm assuming Montreal will wind up in the D.C. area) Where's left? New Orleans? Las vegas? Mexico City?

This doesn't change the fact that a few more incidents like Tuesday night could force MLB's hand in the matter. The chances of the Sox leaving are small but they are NOT zero. After all they almost moved at least three documented times before.

Lip

Rocky Soprano
04-16-2003, 11:07 AM
Lip,

I guess I should of been more elaborate on my response. I do take his post serious.

What I should of said is: Dont even play like that. It would suck to see the Sox leave. I would quit watching baseball. I dont want to imagine just having the Cubs as our baseball team.

KruseControl04
04-16-2003, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
I dont want to imagine just having the Cubs as our baseball team.


Ewww..... Don't even say that. If the Sox moved I don't think there would be any reason for me to remain in the Chicago area. I'd move... wherever the Sox went. Either that or become a Brewers fan. I don't want to imagine being a brewers fan either, they suck hardcore style.

Iwritecode
04-16-2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Sox author/ historian Rich Lindberg said in his interview with WSI that he was concerned about the future of this team in Chicago if and when Reinsdorf finally goes away. Phil Rogers said the question of what happens to the Sox after Uncle Jerry, has been discussed in the Tribune offices without an answer.


I just thought about this the other day. We keep talking about what will happen when JR no longer owns the team. Let's say he drops dead tomorrow. The other investors that JR is part of will still own the team won't they? Does JR's share of the team go so someone or get divided up by the other investors? I'm just wondering if we'll get an entirely new owner or if a new front-man will just show up out of whoevers left in the group...

Daver
04-16-2003, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
I just thought about this the other day. We keep talking about what will happen when JR no longer owns the team. Let's say he drops dead tomorrow. The other investors that JR is part of will still own the team won't they? Does JR's share of the team go so someone or get divided up by the other investors? I'm just wondering if we'll get an entirely new owner or if a new front-man will just show up out of whoevers left in the group...

I would assume Jerry's son would inherit his share of the team.

Iwritecode
04-16-2003, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by daver
I would assume Jerry's son would inherit his share of the team.

So those of us hoping to outlive JR are pretty much screwed too huh?

moochpuppy
04-16-2003, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
They won't move because there are no cities left with sufficiant size to support them. (I'm assuming Montreal will wind up in the D.C. area) Where's left? New Orleans? Las vegas? Mexico City?



Portland, Indianapolis, Nashville, Orlando (doubt they'll even try another Florida team).

Dadawg_77
04-16-2003, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
I just thought about this the other day. We keep talking about what will happen when JR no longer owns the team. Let's say he drops dead tomorrow. The other investors that JR is part of will still own the team won't they? Does JR's share of the team go so someone or get divided up by the other investors? I'm just wondering if we'll get an entirely new owner or if a new front-man will just show up out of whoevers left in the group...

I am not a lawyer here but the Sox are not incorporated, but either a general partnership or limited partnership. I think if Jerry dies, the partnership would cease to exist since the general partner died. This would cause either a reorg of the Sox partnership or Sox would be sold and proceeds divide amoung the partners.

thecell
04-16-2003, 12:25 PM
All we have to do is throw in a few million per WSI member and buy the team. That would solve everyone's problems. I'll let everyone know when I have my 10 mil.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-16-2003, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
I am not a lawyer here but the Sox are not incorporated, but either a general partnership or limited partnership. I think if Jerry dies, the partnership would cease to exist since the general partner died. This would cause either a reorg of the Sox partnership or Sox would be sold and proceeds divide amoung the partners.

If our beloved chairman died, somebody would have to fill Jerry Reinsdorf's position as managing partner for the ownership group. Presumably JR has his personal equity in the team willed to his wife and his son. Given the large investment involved, it's reasonable to assume the Sox partnership already specifies a line of succession which would take effect should any officer die or otherwise become incapacitated. That does not preclude the remaining owners from collectively deciding to sell the team.

Lip Man 1
04-16-2003, 03:21 PM
Reports on what kind of person Uncle Jerry's son is are unknown (at least I have never seen any stories on him) however I have been told by three different sources (from the media and from former members of the Sox "family") that a close immediate member of the Reinsdorf family has been urging that Jerry sell the team for the past few years. So far he has refused to listen to that advise.

Lip

MRKARNO
04-16-2003, 03:52 PM
:threadsucks

:threadsucks

:threadsucks

LuvSox
04-16-2003, 04:32 PM
Thank you MRKARNO!!!

kevingrt
04-16-2003, 04:57 PM
MRKARNO THANK GOD WE HAVE SOME COMPETANT fans on this board... A DRILLROD is White Sox Bill

voodoochile
04-16-2003, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by kevingrt
MRKARNO THANK GOD WE HAVE SOME COMPETANT fans on this board... A DRILLROD is White Sox Bill

What does the name calling accomplish? Can't you respond to the points he made without resorting to it?

Like it or not, he raises some valid concerns. No, I don't think the team is going anywhere either, but that doesn't mean it is the only position one can take on the issue...

TheBigHurt
04-16-2003, 05:04 PM
THEY can come to NY I bet Chi-town Sox fans would welcome that

BE GOOD

MarkEdward
04-16-2003, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by TheBigHurt
THEY can come to NY I bet Chi-town Sox fans would welcome that

BE GOOD

The Brooklyn White Sox? :)

Bisco Stu
04-16-2003, 05:08 PM
Which means the Sox will finally win the WS in 2055?

voodoochile
04-16-2003, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
The Brooklyn White Sox? :)

:reinsy
"Be still my beating heart. I'm coming home, Brooklyn and I'm bringing a baseball team with me..."

TheBigHurt
04-16-2003, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
The Brooklyn White Sox? :)
I was thinking The Nassau White Sox :)

FarmerAndy
04-16-2003, 05:19 PM
1. Nashville is large enough for a MLB team, and they've wanted one for many years. Somebody made the joke about NY. It would never happen, but there are enough people in Brooklyn to support a team.

2. I hope the White Sox never leave Chicago. I don't think they ever will leave, but it's not because there aren't anymore markets large enough.

3. If the Sox ever moved, I would move with them. I love this town, but no way I stay here without the Sox

MRKARNO
04-16-2003, 05:23 PM
Yeah, and I have just the same right to express my opinion that this should not be discussed on this board

:threadsucks

voodoochile
04-16-2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Yeah, and I have just the same right to express my opinion that this should not be discussed on this board

:threadsucks

You are correct, but you aren't calling anyone names, now are you?

MRKARNO
04-16-2003, 05:51 PM
No accusations against the moderators, I just think that this is the wrong reaction to the incidents. I go beyond disagreeing with it.

voodoochile
04-16-2003, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
No accusations against the moderators, I just think that this is the wrong reaction to the incidents. I go beyond disagreeing with it.

Okay, just for the record... You are free to disagree with this or any thread. I was merely pointing out that the name calling was unnecessary. You have been perfectly clear that you disagree and I hope everyone feels free to express their disagreement with any thread that is ever posted (except mine :D: ). It is the name calling and ONLY the name calling I was objecting to...

JUGGERNAUT
04-16-2003, 07:17 PM
Can support an AL MLB team. If the SOX are moving, it will just be to a burb somewhere. The burbs are a lot more developed now than they were in 1990 & have proven to be able to support mLB in the form of the Cougars & the other team.

guillen4life13
04-16-2003, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by espnjohn1
Can support an AL MLB team. If the SOX are moving, it will just be to a burb somewhere. The burbs are a lot more developed now than they were in 1990 & have proven to be able to support mLB in the form of the Cougars & the other team.

Burbs could work... Naperville, Aurora, Addison, they could work. Something along the Ike would probably be ideal, as that is probably the most used expressway leading out into the Burbs. But, again, I doubt it would happen.

MRKARNO
04-16-2003, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Okay, just for the record... You are free to disagree with this or any thread. I was merely pointing out that the name calling was unnecessary. You have been perfectly clear that you disagree and I hope everyone feels free to express their disagreement with any thread that is ever posted (except mine :D: ). It is the name calling and ONLY the name calling I was objecting to...

What name calling???

fuzzy_patters
04-16-2003, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
Burbs could work... Naperville, Aurora, Addison, they could work. Something along the Ike would probably be ideal, as that is probably the most used expressway leading out into the Burbs. But, again, I doubt it would happen. The Sox could play next door to the Gary Bears.

white sox bill
04-17-2003, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by kevingrt
MRKARNO THANK GOD WE HAVE SOME COMPETANT fans on this board... A DRILLROD is White Sox Bill

kevingrt, now your sounding like Bill O'Reilly although I do own some nice B&D drills :smile:

Without lowering myself to name calling, I was pointing out that this is a BUSINESS and I've been self-employed for over 20 yrs now and I really don't know what JR's P/L statements look like, but I gotta tell you, if he's been in the red for the last several yrs, then you would HAVE to look at some alternatives, ie selling, moving to different location,looking for other cities. Good thing for us SOX fans there aren't any clear cut markets out there, otherwise the unthinkable might happen.

Maybe the sox are a tax write off. In business you must KEEP YOUR EMOTIONS OUT OF IT!! I once owned a mail order business that I dearly loved and employed a small amount of people that I loved working with..But the bottom line was that it was losing $$ and I grew tired of my other business's subsidizing it. I shut it down after 4 yrs. Don't ever get me wroong I love this franshise, and the thought of it moving sickens me but lets take a objective look at reality. Gosh would Bill Gates ever want to invest in a team? Wouldn't that be great to have a owner worth 40 Billion who thinks a 150 Million$ payroll is chump change?--Of course they are usually the tight asses! (Free laptops as a promotion on certain games!!)

Dan H
04-17-2003, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by white sox bill
My heart bleeds Sox black, don't get me wrong I LOVE this team. But lets face facts, they are up against a media giant in the Scrub organization, Uncle Jerry will never go that extra mile to get a WS ring, wer'e all seen as second rate citizens, out Park is discounted (although wrongly) as sterile with no atmoshpere in a blighted part of town. The list could go on and on...

Now add this(The KC debacle)I gotta wonder if the Sox's better days may be in another city. Hope not.....

The media is only part of the problem. The Sox have deep rooted problems that have not been addressed for decades, and many of these problems have been self-inflicted. It is sad to see the fan base to dwindle, and the team just didn't need the KC incident. The team needs to win badly this year and for years to come. And the media? It has hurt more by constant fan bashing than Reinsdorf bashing.

voodoochile
04-17-2003, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by white sox bill
kevingrt, now your sounding like Bill O'Reilly although I do own some nice B&D drills :smile:

Without lowering myself to name calling, I was pointing out that this is a BUSINESS and I've been self-employed for over 20 yrs now and I really don't know what JR's P/L statements look like, but I gotta tell you, if he's been in the red for the last several yrs, then you would HAVE to look at some alternatives, ie selling, moving to different location,looking for other cities. Good thing for us SOX fans there aren't any clear cut markets out there, otherwise the unthinkable might happen.

Maybe the sox are a tax write off. In business you must KEEP YOUR EMOTIONS OUT OF IT!! I once owned a mail order business that I dearly loved and employed a small amount of people that I loved working with..But the bottom line was that it was losing $$ and I grew tired of my other business's subsidizing it. I shut it down after 4 yrs. Don't ever get me wroong I love this franshise, and the thought of it moving sickens me but lets take a objective look at reality. Gosh would Bill Gates ever want to invest in a team? Wouldn't that be great to have a owner worth 40 Billion who thinks a 150 Million$ payroll is chump change?--Of course they are usually the tight asses! (Free laptops as a promotion on certain games!!)

Man, I hope Billy "Goat" Gates buys the Sox. Talk about an unlucky day for flubbie fans...

Couple of points - which have been hammered here to death, but what the heck. If the Sox have been losing money for 20+ years it is JR's fault. I sincerely doubt that is actually happening and it probably doesn't take into account the salary ($1M reportedly) that JR himself earns. Nor does it take into account the increase in capital wealth that has occurred over that same time frame (which by all accounts matches or exceeds the increase in the DJIA over the same time frame). The books they show the world are not complete.

In addition the marketing department and PR wing of the Sox have been horrid over that same period. They have done nothing to attract season ticket holders and have actively made decision after decision that chased off the fans starting with the PPV TV in the early 80's and working our way right through the strike of 1994 and the White Flag Trade. JR has refused to build a winner if it means taking a loss for a year or two and will only do it on his terms - insisting he will only spend the money he earns while his fan base continues to dwindle. Now compare that to what happened in Seattle, where they built the winner and then the fans came out now it is self fulfilling. They have more revenue to spend on players and hence can afford more payroll - which in turn means more wins. JR's response has been, "I won't spend until the fans come out." From a marketing perspective, he has it backwards. A better more expensive team means more wins means more fans means more money means a better more expensive team means more wins means more fans... It's cyclical and there aren't shortcuts to making it happen.

Hopefully our next owner has more sense and more money...

bfauble83
04-17-2003, 11:05 AM
I would absolutely LOVE if the Sox moved to either NOVA or DC!!!!! Go buy 'em Danny(Snyder)!!!!!:)