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THE_HOOTER
04-15-2003, 10:56 PM
I told you so!

Koch is not nearly as good as many say. Trading for him was a bad idea and I have said it from the start.

Two bad blown saves in April- last time Foulke did that, he lost his job.

You know who Koch is? The new CHOICE-- because he will get every opportunity to f-up before he is finally yanked.

My goodness-what an overrated bum!

konerkopeachy
04-15-2003, 11:02 PM
ol' billy has kinda has double edged luck. he had....how many saves in Oakland, now? 40+? but i have to agree - the games he blows, he blows hard. he's decent, but not very dependable. and we need someone who's dependable.....

duke of dorwood
04-15-2003, 11:20 PM
Koch will be fine-he is not the problem-he has to be instructed and apparently whoever scouts KC for us is blind deaf and dumb

THE_HOOTER
04-15-2003, 11:24 PM
You dont need a scout to tell you when he throws a fastball down the middle hit it!


What a joke--to blame it on the scouting is hilarious.


Koch didnt get his job done again! You want to blame it on the scouting?

I cant wait to hear your answer in May when he has 5-6 blown saves.


We went down a notch switching from Foulke to Koch.

ssang
04-16-2003, 10:29 AM
The problem with the Foulke for Koch trade was.....no matter what any person, fan, or expert thought about the trade, their opinion was moot. All you needed to know as to why this was a bad trade for us is that Billy Beane traded with Ken Williams! That alone dictates that we screwed up big-time. Beane trading with Ken Wllimas is equivelant to a #1 playing a #16 seed in the NCAA tourney. Why did Williams trade with Beane? He should know that he is nothing as a GM compared to him. Basically, Williams was begging to get raped on this trade !

jlh221fan
04-16-2003, 10:41 AM
By the way, Foulke's 2nd blown save wan't until May 29 vs. the Yankees. He lost his job after the gopher ball to Vladimir 10 days later - and that was in a tie game and not a save situation.

StepsInSC
04-16-2003, 11:45 AM
If you can know, after 2 weeks of baseball, who is a bust and who isn't then you need to be working directly for a team. I'm sorry but saying "I told you so" 2 weeks into the baseball season is assinine.

THE_HOOTER
04-16-2003, 12:22 PM
No it's not.

You watch-this guy is overrated, and Foulke will be saving games in the playoffs.

At what point do you consider a guy a bum? This game was absolutely crucial to set a tone.

Our manager didnt blow it, Thomas and the hitters didnt blow it, Koch did.

He had the game in his hands, and he blew it.

The worst, worst part about this situation is Manuel is going to stick Koch until he buries us out of the hunt.

He will not replace him with Marte or Gordon or whoever.

Royce Clayton part 2-keep sending him out there until he ruins the season.

CHISOXFAN13
04-16-2003, 12:24 PM
Yeah, Foulke did such a good job for us in the postseason in 2000.

Did Edgar's homer land yet??

THE_HOOTER
04-16-2003, 12:29 PM
How did Koch do last year in the playoffs??


HMMMMMMMMM...........

CHISOXFAN13
04-16-2003, 12:33 PM
Exactly, so you telling me Foulke is so much better is ludictous. Both have struggled in the playoffs and both struggle when we need it most. You can't argue that.

gosox41
04-16-2003, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Exactly, so you telling me Foulke is so much better is ludictous. Both have struggled in the playoffs and both struggle when we need it most. You can't argue that.

IMHO, Foulke is a better pitcher. I don't think he is a ton better, but his numbers are better.

Which further makes one question why the Sox would trade a better pitcher for a worse pitcher when they are trying to win now.

Bob

hold2dibber
04-16-2003, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
No it's not.

You watch-this guy is overrated, and Foulke will be saving games in the playoffs.

At what point do you consider a guy a bum? This game was absolutely crucial to set a tone.

Our manager didnt blow it, Thomas and the hitters didnt blow it, Koch did.

He had the game in his hands, and he blew it.

The worst, worst part about this situation is Manuel is going to stick Koch until he buries us out of the hunt.

He will not replace him with Marte or Gordon or whoever.

Royce Clayton part 2-keep sending him out there until he ruins the season.

Jeez, talk about an overreaction. I agree with the basic premise that Foulke is better than Koch. But Koch is still good. He has a very high save % over his career. He has good stuff. He is a warrior out there. I'd rather have Foulke, but to jump to the knee-jerk reaction that Koch is a bum because he's blown 2 games (against MLB's hottest team, no less) is absurd. The comparison to Clayton is a joke - Koch, by just about any standards, has been one of the better closers in baseball over the last several years. Clayton was never one of the better shortstops in baseball. Manuel should stick with Koch because he has a track record. Making knee-jerk reaction based upon the first 2 weeks of the season under these circumstances would be moronic. Based on that kind of logic, the Sox should deal Olivo for Brett Mayne right now, seeing as how Mayne has been smacking the ball around this year.

StepsInSC
04-16-2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
How did Koch do last year in the playoffs??


HMMMMMMMMM...........

How did Foulke do last year in the playoffs? HMMMMMMMMMM....

Oh wait we didn't make it. Koch on the other hand was a member of the ALs best pitching staff and while he may have not been a superstar, he performed well enough to get his team to the playoffs in the toughest division in the AL.

hold2dibber
04-16-2003, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by ssang
The problem with the Foulke for Koch trade was.....no matter what any person, fan, or expert thought about the trade, their opinion was moot. All you needed to know as to why this was a bad trade for us is that Billy Beane traded with Ken Williams! That alone dictates that we screwed up big-time. Beane trading with Ken Wllimas is equivelant to a #1 playing a #16 seed in the NCAA tourney. Why did Williams trade with Beane? He should know that he is nothing as a GM compared to him. Basically, Williams was begging to get raped on this trade !

Beane is a much better GM than Williams, but you're going a little too far. I still like the Olivo for Bradford deal. And while I think, as I always have, that Foulke is better than Koch, Koch is still good and it sounds like the minor league we received in that deal (Neal Cotts) is a good prospect. Beane swindled KW on the Durham deal (Adkins will NEVER be an effective major league pitcher), but that's just one deal.

Jjav829
04-16-2003, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by StepsInSC
If you can know, after 2 weeks of baseball, who is a bust and who isn't then you need to be working directly for a team. I'm sorry but saying "I told you so" 2 weeks into the baseball season is assinine.

Well said. You wanna come on here and tell us how your right, do it after the season. Not after the 13th game.

GASHWOUND
04-16-2003, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by StepsInSC
How did Foulke do last year in the playoffs? HMMMMMMMMMM....

Oh wait we didn't make it. Koch on the other hand was a member of the ALs best pitching staff and while he may have not been a superstar, he performed well enough to get his team to the playoffs in the toughest division in the AL.

Great point, the guy did have 44 saves in the in the AL West and a 3.44 era for a 100 win team. If he can have that kinda success in the AL West(Great Division), I'll go out on a limb saying he can have that success in AL Central(Weak division)

GASHWOUND
04-16-2003, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
No it's not.

You watch-this guy is overrated, and Foulke will be saving games in the playoffs.

At what point do you consider a guy a bum? This game was absolutely crucial to set a tone.

Our manager didnt blow it, Thomas and the hitters didnt blow it, Koch did.

He had the game in his hands, and he blew it.

The worst, worst part about this situation is Manuel is going to stick Koch until he buries us out of the hunt.

He will not replace him with Marte or Gordon or whoever.

Royce Clayton part 2-keep sending him out there until he ruins the season.

At what point do I comsider a guy a bum?? Not after 2 weeks, that's for sure..Koch said it himself, he's gonna have 5 really bad games this year. It's not like he's some unproven rookie, he's proven to be able to save games. And do it in a very tough division.