PDA

View Full Version : Beating Lip To The Punch...


DrCrawdad
04-08-2003, 11:34 PM
Surprise, surprise. The Cubune has the obligatory 'throwing a brick from a distance' article with Liefer bashing the Sox. Biddle didn't bash the Sox, but don't let that stand in the way of a headline.


Biddle, Liefer enjoying their change of scenery...

The White Sox may have drafted Rocky Biddle and Jeff Liefer, but as far as both are concerned, they aren't exactly unhappy to see the Sox in their rearview mirrors.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=172443

RKMeibalane
04-08-2003, 11:38 PM
The Cubune can take that article and stick where the sun doesn't shine. I've had enough of this crap. Who cares if Biddle and Liefer are glad to be out of Chicago? Obviously they're going to be happier in a situation where they will see more playing time. The fact that they once played for the White Sox has little or nothing to do with it. The Cubune is doing everything they can to make the Sox look bad, hoping that it will mask the complete ineptitude of the Cubs.

T Dog
04-09-2003, 12:57 AM
A few days after Rocky Biddle was traded, he spoke at a banquet to a large group of Sox fans. He finished by saying that someday he would be back in Chicago, "where I belong." It was clear he wasn't talking about wearing Cubbie blue.

jeremyb1
04-09-2003, 02:33 AM
i don't understand why every trib article has to be characterized as sox bashing. i hate the cubs as much as the next guy and i dislike the lack of coverage we often receive but i don't see why any article dealing with a negative aspect of our team should qualify as malice at the hands of the "cubbune".

leifer isn't the first player to critisize the sox clubhouse under kw as being too structured. frank has done it, ray has done it, there was an entire article about how many players consider gary ward's hitters meetings to be unecessary. i fail to understand why this isn't newsworthy. i certainly want to know how our players feel about our the way the organization operates. why does the trib have to have some hidden agenda to print that story?

kermittheefrog
04-09-2003, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Surprise, surprise. The Cubune has the obligatory 'throwing a brick from a distance' article with Liefer bashing the Sox. Biddle didn't bash the Sox, but don't let that stand in the way of a headline.



http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=172443

With the subject I was expecting something to the effect of "this win is meaningless because the Sox don't have what it takes to really win, I'll be the one laughing when we lose 100 games."

RichH55
04-09-2003, 03:27 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
With the subject I was expecting something to the effect of "this win is meaningless because the Sox don't have what it takes to really win, I'll be the one laughing when we lose 100 games."


I was expecting "Which leads me back to the days of Ron Shueler or as I call him, Jumbotron, because he was as big as the Sox Park Jumbotron"


Classics never die

DrCrawdad
04-09-2003, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i don't understand why every trib article has to be characterized as sox bashing. i hate the cubs as much as the next guy and i dislike the lack of coverage we often receive but i don't see why any article dealing with a negative aspect of our team should qualify as malice at the hands of the "cubbune".

leifer isn't the first player to critisize the sox clubhouse under kw as being too structured. frank has done it, ray has done it, there was an entire article about how many players consider gary ward's hitters meetings to be unecessary. i fail to understand why this isn't newsworthy. i certainly want to know how our players feel about our the way the organization operates. why does the trib have to have some hidden agenda to print that story?

The Cubune's agenda is not hidden at all. The Cubune agenda is to promote their product.

* The Cubune took snipes at the Sox about homeopener attendance. The Cubune was silent about the Cubs doing worse than the Sox!

* The Cubune took snipes at the Sox because Sox fans booed Gordan, Manual and Koch. The Cubune was silent about Cub fans booing the Canadian National Anthem!

The Cubune may be exercising critical analysis, but where is it when it comes to their team?

DrCrawdad
04-09-2003, 07:54 AM
I take it all back. The Cubune is a fountain of objectivity. I just found this tiny notice at the end of an article on Mark G.




Off key

Tuesday's national anthem was preceded by Wayne Messmer singing "O Canada." The Canadian national anthem elicited a stream of boos from some fans apparently disapproving of the Canadian government's stance on the war in Iraq.

Fisk Fan
04-09-2003, 08:11 AM
Off key

Tuesday's national anthem was preceded by Wayne Messmer singing "O Canada." The Canadian national anthem elicited a stream of boos from some fans apparently disapproving of the Canadian government's stance on the war in Iraq.

They make it sound like it is was a patriotic duty to boo the Canadian national anthem and the Cubs fans should be praised for their efforts. What a load of crap!

Lip Man 1
04-09-2003, 11:07 AM
I didn't think it was that big a deal yesterday which is why I didn't mention it.

Jeff wanted playing time, it's understandable. (I don't think he's that good but I respect any player for wanting to get out there and play, to see if he can do the job or not.

I happen to agree with Jeremy on this one (be still my beating heart) I think some Sox fans are a little to paranoid over the media. (That's not a slap at anybody in particular...) The fact is the Sox are second fiddle in Chicago, that's reality. When (if) the Sox actually win something of substance that will change until then they are a victim of bad luck, bad management and some very bad PR decisions.


Lip

Soxboyrob
04-09-2003, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The fact is the Sox are second fiddle in Chicago, that's reality. When (if) the Sox actually win something of substance that will change until then they are a victim of bad luck, bad management and some very bad PR decisions.
Lip

Great point, Lip. As it stands, the Cubs draw more attendance and get higher TV ratings. They are currently the more popular club in this town. We need to deal w/ that and move on. The more popular club will always get more coverage and be treated more lovingly, whether it's right or wrong. I don't see the local papers giving equal coverage to the Blackhawks and the WhiteSox. Why? Because the Sox are more popular. I couldn't care less if the papers only covered the Cubs and never mentioned the Sox. I get more than enough Sox coverage from the radio, TV and this site. And most of all, more media coverage isn't going to make the Sox win more often, and that's all that really matters to me right now.

LuvSox
04-09-2003, 11:28 AM
When did either of those two guys do anything that was worth a crap for the Sox?

Iwritecode
04-09-2003, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
As it stands, the Cubs draw more attendance and get higher TV ratings. They are currently the more popular club in this town. We need to deal w/ that and move on.

And why do you think they are the more popular club in town? Ask Joe casual fan to open the paper and he'll see that the Cubs are the greatest thing since sliced bread and the Sox are the spawn of Satan. So which team do you think he is going to want to watch? The Cubs don't get more coverage because they are more popular, they are more popular because they get more coverage.

WinningUgly!
04-09-2003, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
And why do you think they are the more popular club in town? Ask Joe casual fan to open the paper and he'll see that the Cubs are the greatest thing since sliced bread and the Sox are the spawn of Satan. So which team do you think he is going to want to watch? The Cubs don't get more coverage because they are more popular, they are more popular because they get more coverage.

Ding - Ding - Ding!!!!! We have a winner!

voodoochile
04-09-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
And why do you think they are the more popular club in town? Ask Joe casual fan to open the paper and he'll see that the Cubs are the greatest thing since sliced bread and the Sox are the spawn of Satan. So which team do you think he is going to want to watch? The Cubs don't get more coverage because they are more popular, they are more popular because they get more coverage.

I don't think that's all of it. The reasons that diehard Sox fans are staying away from Comiskey in droves have been beaten to death. It isn't the Tribune's fault that Sox management couldn't market air-conditioning to Egyptian Pyramid builders.

Yes, the bias is slanted, but the Sox have dug their own grave when it comes to lousy PR, poor marketing of their product and (until recently) terrible decisions about the stadium - compounded by the owner's insistence that nothing was wrong and that it was the fan's fault that the team couldn't field and maintain a winner.

If the Sox fix their own house, then the media will start to turn around a bit, but it will never be purely objecetive so long as the Tribune owns the Cubs. Put a pennant winner on the field JR and the media coverage will even out and the stadium will fill up. Until that happens Sox fans shouldn't expect even coverage, IMO...

Soxboyrob
04-09-2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
The Cubs don't get more coverage because they are more popular, they are more popular because they get more coverage.

But then by that reasoning, the Sox would be more popular if they got more coverage. And the Kane County Cougars would be more popular than either team if they got more coverage. And the Wolves would be more popular than the Hawks if they got more coverage.

Maybe the Cubs are more popular because they play in one of the oldest parks, which is nationally revered. Maybe it's because they were on a free nationally broadcast network while the Sox were squeezing pennies out of us for ONTV. Maybe it's because they have one of the most popular players in baseball.

I don't know why they're more popular, nor do I care. But I highly doubt that it's due to excess coverage for the Cubs. The coverage argument might work if you think it perpetuates the current situation, but you'll never convince me that that's how it got that way in the first place.

Dan H
04-09-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
And why do you think they are the more popular club in town? Ask Joe casual fan to open the paper and he'll see that the Cubs are the greatest thing since sliced bread and the Sox are the spawn of Satan. So which team do you think he is going to want to watch? The Cubs don't get more coverage because they are more popular, they are more popular because they get more coverage.

I agree with this to a point. If things are said over and over, people do believe them. Cubbie propaganda is non stop and hard to resist. Their supposodly great park and totally loyal fans are constantly touted almost without end. And look in any bookstore. There is a 3 or 4 to 1 ratio in favor of Cubbie stuff. I can't believe how many books have been written about that dumb 1969 team.

However, the Sox have been their own worst enemy PR wise. They are so concerned about controlling everything that is written or said about them to the point where it is ridiculous. They come off as arrogant instead of being open. Since they are less open, they are bound to get less ink. And face it. They have turned off many fans with the way they run their organization, which has nothing to do with the media.

I don't get offended by the media criticizing the Sox, if that criticism has merit. In fact, I think the media has unfairly labeled Sox fans as being fair weather and disloyal. But they don't worry about offending fans. They need access to the team, and we can't give them that.

Soxboyrob
04-09-2003, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Dan H
Cubbie propaganda is non stop and hard to resist. Their supposodly great park and totally loyal fans are constantly touted almost without end.

True, the media endlessly raves about the park but is it also fair to admit that there really are a lot of Wrigley and/or Cub fans that love that park? I like it, but nowhere near as much as Comiskey. Let's not blame the media for there being 2.5 million people that like to sit in the sun in a 100 year old park, look at bikini clad girls, drink beer and watch the Cubs lose. There are many very positive things about what I just mentioned.

When the Sox win it all or become a consistently excellent organization, we'll be more popular. Until then, we're second in line and that's not going to change anytime soon. Who cares anyway? At least as it currently stands, it's easy to get a Sox ticket for face value or less and get a good seat on just about any given day at Comiskey park. What do we really have to gain by getting more or better media coverage? I just want us to win for god's sake.

Hangar18
04-09-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
And why do you think they are the more popular club in town? Ask Joe casual fan to open the paper and he'll see that the Cubs are the greatest thing since sliced bread and the Sox are the spawn of Satan. So which team do you think he is going to want to watch? The Cubs don't get more coverage because they are more popular, they are more popular because they get more coverage.

******BAM********** this is something ive been saying for years and years and years. stupid people believe everything they read and believe it to be truth. The Cubs became more "popular" because the Media insists on giving them more coverage, more bias, more Fluff. Last nite on WGN, they did the sports segment on the Cubs opener, talked to fans in the stands, did the obligatory Talk-to-foolish-fan-on-camera-make-prediction (which the dumb woman said cubs were going all the way) and the media, even laughed at something Baker Said that I know, he wasnt intending to be Funny. The MEDIA wants to love Baker, and the cubs, and will let him do everything short of Murdering someone in cold blood before they say something negative about the cubs. That is the ONLY reason why the cubs are more popular because the media "perceives" them that way. What came First...The Chicken or The Egg ? ??
Its preposterous how many stories the cubs have over the sox
They will Never catch them now that the season has started.......

Hangar18
04-09-2003, 01:34 PM
Once the Iraqi regime falls, I have a new job for that al Sahaaf
guy. He can EASILY work for the Tribune or Sun-Times as a Cubs beat Reporter. Think of his qualifications. He can twist the truth and turn it around to make things favorable to himself. He can easily Lie. Imagine this...."the cubs are world champions"
The cubs are americas team. he can superimpose cubs media picture (which by the way, theyre the only team to take theirs way way late in the season, august september, so all the guys they release, and new ones they pick up, can be on the official team pic so it looks like they were there the whole season, what a bogus organization) next to the statue of liberty, and say that All of NY loves the cubs too.....man, this guy has a career here waiting for him.....

steff
04-09-2003, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
Great point, Lip. As it stands, the Cubs draw more attendance and get higher TV ratings. They are currently the more popular club in this town. We need to deal w/ that and move on. The more popular club will always get more coverage and be treated more lovingly, whether it's right or wrong. I don't see the local papers giving equal coverage to the Blackhawks and the WhiteSox. Why? Because the Sox are more popular. I couldn't care less if the papers only covered the Cubs and never mentioned the Sox. I get more than enough Sox coverage from the radio, TV and this site. And most of all, more media coverage isn't going to make the Sox win more often, and that's all that really matters to me right now.


Hmmmm.. TWO times you posts comments about not posting comments regarding attendance at Wrigley. :whiner: :whiner:


:D:

PaleHoseGeorge
04-09-2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
True, the media endlessly raves about the park but is it also fair to admit that there really are a lot of Wrigley and/or Cub fans that love that park? I like it, but nowhere near as much as Comiskey. Let's not blame the media for there being 2.5 million people that like to sit in the sun in a 100 year old park, look at bikini clad girls, drink beer and watch the Cubs lose. There are many very positive things about what I just mentioned.

When the Sox win it all or become a consistently excellent organization, we'll be more popular. Until then, we're second in line and that's not going to change anytime soon. Who cares anyway? At least as it currently stands, it's easy to get a Sox ticket for face value or less and get a good seat on just about any given day at Comiskey park. What do we really have to gain by getting more or better media coverage? I just want us to win for god's sake.

Look, I remember as recently as 1983 being able to ride the L to Addison Street, walking up to the ticket window and buying a bleacher ticket the day of the game, then having my pick of nearly any splinter-infested bench inside that "loved park." People forget how untrendy the Urinal was until the Cubune got Harry Caray to start spouting platitudes about it into his WGN microphone. It was the Cubune's hype--not the ballpark--that started the trend!

Need proof? Look no further than 35th and Shields.

While the Sox came off Chicago's first championship season of any kind in 20 years, the Flubbies unexpected 1984 resurgence sealed their primary spot on Chicago's sports scene--and the "loved park" as the most-glorious spot in baseball. You can't deny the facts: The Sox were playing in a ballpark even OLDER than the Urinal--containing at least 10-times as much sporting history ('17 championship, '59 championship, original '33 all-star game, Black Sox, Beatles, etc.)--and yet it was the Flubbies who became the "in" team. By the time the Cubune extorted lights from the Wrigleyville neighborhood (1988) the battle for hearts and minds was over. The Sox have never recovered.

The Cubune got the ball rolling, and the rest of the media simply jumped on board. However please note, I am not holding Reinsdorf and the Sox blameless, as anyone who has read five years worth of my rants will attest. The Sox were stupid to chase away Harry, move Sox telecasts to pay television, and tear up their own history by plowing over every inch of Old Comiskey. Sox public relations is a joke.

If the Flubbies own Chicago, they owe the Sox for helping make it happen. However it's foolish to suggest the Cubune wasn't helping along the process every step of the way. The more general media hype could never have started without them.

DrCrawdad
04-09-2003, 02:05 PM
Here, here Pale Hose!

Just ask yourself, if the booing the Canadian National Anthem had happened at Comiskey, how do you think the media would have responded? Would a the Tribune have buried two sentences about the incident at the end of one article?

I think we all know what would have happened. The Tribune, and the remaining media outlets would have included that straight away in their reports on the Sox game. They'd be blasting Sox fans.

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy it's just piling on now.

Hangar18
04-09-2003, 02:07 PM
this thread has obviously touched a nerve here. The only reason Wrigley is considered "sacred", is because the MEDIA says so. Ive been to games in that dump in the 70's, Funny the place wasnt "Sacred" or "Historical" back then. ALSO...the place was always EMPTY back then too. In the 60's, that dump was Empty, and wasnt "hallowed" or "precious" back then. How did the Cub Propoganda Machine achieve such notoriety in such a short time? the cubs have noone but the Tribune, the Media, and the stupidity of baseball fans for their Luck in being more "popular"

Soxboyrob
04-09-2003, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by steff3603
Hmmmm.. TWO times you posts comments about not posting comments regarding attendance at Wrigley. :whiner: :whiner:
:D:

Oh, bite me Steff.
Just kidding, of course.

Soxboyrob
04-09-2003, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad

Just ask yourself, if the booing the Canadian National Anthem had happened at Comiskey, how do you think the media would have responded? Would a the Tribune have buried two sentences about the incident at the end of one article?

I think we all know what would have happened. The Tribune, and the remaining media outlets would have included that straight away in their reports on the Sox game. They'd be blasting Sox fans.

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy it's just piling on now.

I just know that I don't care what they say and they love it that we, as a whole, DO care about it. It fuels their fire that we're a bunch of conspiracy theorists, complaining about our unfair treatment. That fuels their stereotype generalization of Sox fans. And I refuse to contribute to their flames.

Iwritecode
04-09-2003, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
this thread has obviously touched a nerve here. The only reason Wrigley is considered "sacred", is because the MEDIA says so. Ive been to games in that dump in the 70's, Funny the place wasnt "Sacred" or "Historical" back then. ALSO...the place was always EMPTY back then too. In the 60's, that dump was Empty, and wasnt "hallowed" or "precious" back then. How did the Cub Propoganda Machine achieve such notoriety in such a short time? the cubs have noone but the Tribune, the Media, and the stupidity of baseball fans for their Luck in being more "popular"

I've often wondered the same thing. The few times I've been to Wrigley haven't exactly been awe-inspiring. The place smells like a combination of beer and urine, the scoreboard is almost useless unless you know all the #'s of the players (they don't show their names which I hate), the food selection is horrible and if you're really lucky, you get to watch the game around a giant steel beam!!! I'll take USCF and all its "flaws" and steep upperdeck any day.

Soxboyrob
04-09-2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
If the Flubbies own Chicago, they owe the Sox for helping make it happen. However it's foolish to suggest the Cubune wasn't helping along the process every step of the way. The more general media hype could never have started without them.

I can buy that theory. My only diff on that take is that I think the Trib does a little more to perpetuate the current situation, rather than having contributed much to creating it.

Iwritecode
04-09-2003, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Look, I remember as recently as 1983 being able to ride the L to Addison Street, walking up to the ticket window and buying a bleacher ticket the day of the game, then having my pick of nearly any splinter-infested bench inside that "loved park." People forget how untrendy the Urinal was until the Cubune got Harry Caray to start spouting platitudes about it into his WGN microphone. It was the Cubune's hype--not the ballpark--that started the trend!

Need proof? Look no further than 35th and Shields.

While the Sox came off Chicago's first championship season of any kind in 20 years, the Flubbies unexpected 1984 resurgence sealed their primary spot on Chicago's sports scene--and the "loved park" as the most-glorious spot in baseball. You can't deny the facts: The Sox were playing in a ballpark even OLDER than the Urinal--containing at least 10-times as much sporting history ('17 championship, '59 championship, original '33 all-star game, Black Sox, Beatles, etc.)--and yet it was the Flubbies who became the "in" team. By the time the Cubune extorted lights from the Wrigleyville neighborhood (1988) the battle for hearts and minds was over. The Sox have never recovered.

The Cubune got the ball rolling, and the rest of the media simply jumped on board. However please note, I am not holding Reinsdorf and the Sox blameless, as anyone who has read five years worth of my rants will attest. The Sox were stupid to chase away Harry, move Sox telecasts to pay television, and tear up their own history by plowing over every inch of Old Comiskey. Sox public relations is a joke.

If the Flubbies own Chicago, they owe the Sox for helping make it happen. However it's foolish to suggest the Cubune wasn't helping along the process every step of the way. The more general media hype could never have started without them.

Thank you PHG. I was going to ask if anyone remembered what it was like before the Cubune bought the team. The only way I am able to read the Cubune is online and that has only been for the past 5-6 years...

Procol Harum
04-09-2003, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Dan H
However, the Sox have been their own worst enemy PR wise. They are so concerned about controlling everything that is written or said about them to the point where it is ridiculous. They come off as arrogant instead of being open.

:sahaf
"I've been telling him, 'Jerry my friend, you need to hire a pr pro!' "

TheBigHurt
04-09-2003, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by steff3603
Hmmmm.. TWO times you posts comments about not posting comments regarding attendance at Wrigley. :whiner: :whiner:


:D:

STEFF, is as quick to Ass (to make an an ass out of)fu (you)me (& me) as we were on the expectations of David Wells :)


JUST Kidding steff.............

BE GOOD

Lip Man 1
04-10-2003, 12:28 AM
Dr. Crawdad says: "I'm not saying it's a conspiracy it's just piling on now. "

Well here's the way to stop it....spend 85 million bucks, buy the best team money can buy, go out and make (or win) the World Series and the Cubs won't even be able to get arrested in Chicago. That's the best way to get all the publicity you can handle.

Lip

RichH55
04-10-2003, 04:44 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Dr. Crawdad says: "I'm not saying it's a conspiracy it's just piling on now. "

Well here's the way to stop it....spend 85 million bucks, buy the best team money can buy, go out and make (or win) the World Series and the Cubs won't even be able to get arrested in Chicago. That's the best way to get all the publicity you can handle.

Lip


Whats the old saying.....If the White Sox beat the Cubs in the World Series the headline would read "Cubs lose World Series!"

Lip Man 1
04-10-2003, 12:23 PM
Whats the old saying.....If the White Sox beat the Cubs in the World Series the headline would read "Cubs lose World Series!"

Not in the Daily Southtown!

Lip

Hangar18
04-10-2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Dr. Crawdad says: "I'm not saying it's a conspiracy it's just piling on now. "

Well here's the way to stop it....spend 85 million bucks, buy the best team money can buy, go out and make (or win) the World Series and the Cubs won't even be able to get arrested in Chicago. That's the best way to get all the publicity you can handle.

Lip

Well......IM SAYING its a conspiracy. How can a team thats lost nearly 100 games 4 of the last 6 seasons STILL GET MORE MEDIA COVERAGE than the other team With a Better Record? How Can That Be? What Possible Logic is being Applied here? Simply because of a simple stadium? this has conspiracy written all over it, and is one of the most well kept media conspiracies ive ever seen in my lifetime. I regard the sports media and media in general (esp in this town) as Buffoons and have no Journalistic Respect for them. To be a journalist, you dont really have a Product your making, or a service your providing. theres nothing manufactured (unless you consider the written cub bs as manufactured) nor is there anything tangible to hang your hat on so to speak. A bad engine in a car will soon be discovered by the consumer because there will be a bad engine. A sportwriter, and media in general, who is scoffed at for making fake stories and false generalizations and otherwise writing stories for pure propogandas sake is the Worst Possible Kind of Writing there is. If you can only "make" one product, and that product is faulty, then how can you even be proud of what you do? The Chicago Media Sucks. theres no reason there should be almost 100 extra stories about the cubs, and its the offseason. ridiculous. there should be no reason the sox on opening day should have to be relegated to "other story" status just because the cubs won/lost a game. Theres no reason we should see fluff stories on 5 yr olds in little league uniforms or how rooftop parties are put together or how "dedicated" fans brave the cold to see the cubs (no story like that about the nearly twice the number of fans in similar weather conditions watching the sox) Its Bull****. excuse my french

voodoochile
04-10-2003, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Well......IM SAYING its a conspiracy. How can a team thats lost nearly 100 games 4 of the last 6 seasons STILL GET MORE MEDIA COVERAGE than the other team With a Better Record? How Can That Be? What Possible Logic is being Applied here? Simply because of a simple stadium? this has conspiracy written all over it, and is one of the most well kept media conspiracies ive ever seen in my lifetime. I regard the sports media and media in general (esp in this town) as Buffoons and have no Journalistic Respect for them. To be a journalist, you dont really have a Product your making, or a service your providing. theres nothing manufactured (unless you consider the written cub bs as manufactured) nor is there anything tangible to hang your hat on so to speak. A bad engine in a car will soon be discovered by the consumer because there will be a bad engine. A sportwriter, and media in general, who is scoffed at for making fake stories and false generalizations and otherwise writing stories for pure propogandas sake is the Worst Possible Kind of Writing there is. If you can only "make" one product, and that product is faulty, then how can you even be proud of what you do? The Chicago Media Sucks. theres no reason there should be almost 100 extra stories about the cubs, and its the offseason. ridiculous. there should be no reason the sox on opening day should have to be relegated to "other story" status just because the cubs won/lost a game. Theres no reason we should see fluff stories on 5 yr olds in little league uniforms or how rooftop parties are put together or how "dedicated" fans brave the cold to see the cubs (no story like that about the nearly twice the number of fans in similar weather conditions watching the sox) Its Bull****. excuse my french

It isn't a conspiracy, it's marketing, plain and simple. Nothing hidden and clandestine about it. Just the Tribune marketing it's product that's all...

PaleHoseGeorge
04-10-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
It isn't a conspiracy, it's marketing, plain and simple. Nothing hidden and clandestine about it. Just the Tribune marketing it's product that's all...

EXACTLY. "Conspiracy" is not the word to attach to it. The Cubune knows how to market its team 1000-times better than Reinsdorf's stooges and yes-men. It's been this way for 22 years now.

Superior marketing is also the reason why we're all deluding ourselves to think a Sox championship will somehow change the equation. IT WON'T!!! The Flubbies will still get superior media coverage simply because they MARKET their team better than the Sox.

Need proof? Go back to my post earlier in this thread (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=172607#post172607). The Cubs blew past the Sox in popularity back 1984, exactly one year AFTER the Sox won the city's first championship of any kind for 20 years! Our ballpark was older and contained far greater history--and it didn't mean jack **** without somebody in the Sox front office smart enough to capitalize on it.

We need a $85 million payroll? Bull****. We could have a $250 million payroll and the Sox would still piss away whatever advantage the championship (we bought) brought us. The period from 1983-1988 (the year the Cubune got lights for the Urinal) proves the point.

The trouble with the Sox runs far deeper than simply the pathetic size of our trophy case.

34 Inch Stick
04-10-2003, 01:21 PM
I think monopoly would be a more appropriate term.

However, there are a lot of factors, even beyond marketing that have created the disproportionate treatment. The booming real estate market around Wrigley made it a center for young, affluent single people. These people had disposable income for entertainment. What could be better entertainment than walking out of your condo a couple of blocks to a baseball game, during the day?

WGN's influence has also been huge. The Cubs have become America's team because of the superstation.

The Sox bad PR and poor ownership drove casual fans away. Those casual fans found a home in warm and fuzzy Wrigley.

WinningUgly!
04-10-2003, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
EXACTLY. "Conspiracy" is not the word to attach to it. The Cubune knows how to market its team 1000-times better than Reinsdorf's stooges and yes-men. It's been this way for 22 years now.

Superior marketing is also the reason why we're all deluding ourselves to think a Sox championship will somehow change the equation. IT WON'T!!! The Flubbies will still get superior media coverage simply because they MARKET their team better than the Sox.

I'm not about to defend JR's marketing "stooges", but I think you're giving a little too much credit to the Cubune people. Yes, they are marketed better, but how much of that is simply because they control such a large piece of Chicago's media pie?

PaleHoseGeorge
04-10-2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
....WGN's influence has also been huge. The Cubs have become America's team because of the superstation.

The Sox bad PR and poor ownership drove casual fans away. Those casual fans found a home in warm and fuzzy Wrigley.

This is precisely what I'm talking about when I speak of the Flubbies' superior marketing. WGN used to broadcast both Cubs AND Sox games. It was the SOX who left WGN--not the other way around! Monopoly has nothing to do with it.

Soxboyrob
04-10-2003, 01:38 PM
[i]
We need a $85 million payroll? Bull****. We could have a $250 million payroll and the Sox would still piss away whatever advantage the championship (we bought) brought us. The period from 1983-1988 (the year the Cubune got lights for the Urinal) proves the point.

The trouble with the Sox runs far deeper than simply the pathetic size of our trophy case. [/B]

Great post and great points.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-10-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
I'm not about to defend JR's marketing "stooges", but I think you're giving a little too much credit to the Cubune people. Yes, they are marketed better, but how much of that is simply because they control such a large piece of Chicago's media pie?

Oh, I agree. I've suggested numerous times that Cubune employees can't help but be subliminally coaxed into talking up the Flubbies. They draw their very livelihood from the same parent company, and the Flubbies are a very high-profile sister division--to say the least. Do they behave this way on purpose or because of some secret memo handed down from Cubune Tower? Nah.

I actually feel sorry for Cubune employees because, through no fault of their own, the Cubune brass has compromised their newspaper's journalistic integrity. Phil Rogers has said as much himself in this very forum.

They might go out of their way to prove they haven't a rooting interest in the Flubs and no grudge against the Sox, but it won't make any difference. The perception is there, and the perception is all that matters.

I don't think any of us would debate this.

Lip Man 1
04-11-2003, 01:16 AM
George:

I'm not fundamentally disagreeing with you, I'm just saying winning something of substance would make it very difficult for anybody to look at the Sox in the same way again. That includes the media, corporate sponsors and the average fan.

As long as the Sox hover around mediocrity the factors that you mentioned are even more in play.

Lip

steff
04-11-2003, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
Oh, bite me Steff.
Just kidding, of course.


Hmm.. did you have to edit to put that "kidding of course" in there...???

steff
04-11-2003, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by TheBigHurt
STEFF, is as quick to Ass (to make an an ass out of)fu (you)me (& me) as we were on the expectations of David Wells :)


JUST Kidding steff.............

BE GOOD



Do you have any idea what the heck you are talking about cause I sure don't. My post was an inside joke to Rob.. he got it and replied. Now what the hell are you talking about...?? :?:

Soxboyrob
04-11-2003, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by steff3603
Hmm.. did you have to edit to put that "kidding of course" in there...???

I thought it to be a good idea, since the powers that be may not know I'm joking, even if you did. No need to cause a stir.

steff
04-11-2003, 05:05 PM
Oh.. I think everyone knows you are my "special" banking man :D:

Soxboyrob
04-11-2003, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by steff3603
Oh.. I think everyone knows you are my "special" banking man :D:

how do you mean "special?"

Hullett_Fan
04-11-2003, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
George:

I'm not fundamentally disagreeing with you, I'm just saying winning something of substance would make it very difficult for anybody to look at the Sox in the same way again. That includes the media, corporate sponsors and the average fan.

As long as the Sox hover around mediocrity the factors that you mentioned are even more in play.

Lip


I've said the same thing..almost: The first Chicago team to win a World Series will have a grip on this town. If the Sox won, the Cubs wouldn't vanish off the face of the earth, but everyone loves a winner. Take NY for example. That was a Mets town (especially in the media) during the mid-late 80's. Before that it was a Yankees town (except 1969 when everyone jumped on the bandwagon). It has been a Yankees town since their dynasty began. Each team will always have its die-hard fans...but the casual fan wants to see a winner.