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Lip Man 1
04-07-2003, 10:49 AM
"The Sox have gotten about as much ink for stockpiling arms these last few years as Iraq's Republican Guard, and have employed them with roughly equal success.

Among the seven previous hurlers to make their major league debut in a start for the Sox, only Jon Garland is still with the team and none are established as anything more than middling big leaguers. And after Garland and Kip Wells, the bottom falls out of the middle."--Phil Arvia, Daily Southtown

Lip

Huisj
04-07-2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
[B
to make their major league debut in a start

Lip [/B]

Ok, but what about the guys who didn't make their debut in a start? like, how about mark buerhle, who came up and pitched in the bullpen in 2000 and then was a starter later?

sure, there aren't many other examples over the last few years, but it seems like he put that condition in there to eliminate buerhle or something to make it sound like things are a lot worse than they are.

DrCrawdad
04-07-2003, 12:51 PM
What about Mike Sirotka, Chad Bradford, Rocky Biddle, Keith Foulke (well ok Foulke didn't begin with the Sox but pretty darn close) and Josh Fogg?

Seems to me that the Sox get it from every direction. People like this guy diss the pitchers the Sox have produced, but then other people say that the Sox have traded away a bunch of young pitchers.

FWIW Phil Rogers seems to like how the Sox have done in producing pitchers. Obviously though there was some wrongly placed hype on Sox pitching prospects.

Oh, I forgot a couple of other pitchers Aaron Myette and Jim Parque.

WinningUgly!
04-07-2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
"The Sox have gotten about as much ink for stockpiling arms these last few years as Iraq's Republican Guard, and have employed them with roughly equal success.

Among the seven previous hurlers to make their major league debut in a start for the Sox, only Jon Garland is still with the team and none are established as anything more than middling big leaguers. And after Garland and Kip Wells, the bottom falls out of the middle."--Phil Arvia, Daily Southtown

Lip

Wow...this was fresh, new & unexpected.

Lip Man 1
04-07-2003, 09:37 PM
I don't know the time frame that Phil is referring to so I don't know about guys like Parque, Sirotka etc. (FYI both are injured or apparently ineffective.)

You can e-mail Phil to ask how he determined this.

I think his unstated point though is that with all the hype the Sox give their prospects he'd like to know why two or three haven't become 20 game winners or All Stars etc. like Oakland or Houston to name two clubs

Lip

Daver
04-07-2003, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I don't know the time frame that Phil is referring to so I don't know about guys like Parque, Sirotka etc. (FYI both are injured or apparently ineffective.)

You can e-mail Phil to ask how he determined this.

I think his unstated point though is that with all the hype the Sox give their prospects he'd like to know why two or three haven't become 20 game winners or All Stars etc. like Oakland or Houston to name two clubs

Lip

If I had to make a list of all the clubs that overhype pitching prospects I would grow old in the effort,and some good points have been made about Sox pitchers that were considered "expendable" having some success in other organizations.

Every club hypes their prospects,how much you read into the hype is up to you,the info is available to gauge your own opinion and follow it on a closer level.The Sox minor league pitching talent is above average,but you can't base a lot on minor league success.

RichH55
04-08-2003, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I don't know the time frame that Phil is referring to so I don't know about guys like Parque, Sirotka etc. (FYI both are injured or apparently ineffective.)

You can e-mail Phil to ask how he determined this.

I think his unstated point though is that with all the hype the Sox give their prospects he'd like to know why two or three haven't become 20 game winners or All Stars etc. like Oakland or Houston to name two clubs

Lip


Yes Lip...the Sox are definately the only team that overhypes their prospects...other teams talk them down so that both their fans are upset there is "nothing in the pipeline" and so that when they talk trade with other teams they can get less.

And for all your talk about the Cubs having good PR vs the Sox...overhyping prospects seems to be a big thing of theirs as well....of course I might be forgetting about that Hall of Fame career that Ty Griffin had

jeremyb1
04-08-2003, 01:59 AM
it seems to me like the distinction of a player that started in his debut is pointless and clouds the issue by removing buehrle and wright from the equation. regardless, kip wells is more than a middling major leaguer in my opinion. rocky biddle brought us colon and has pitched well for the expos. its ridiculous to argue we haven't produced any decent starting pitchers.