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View Full Version : It's not that they're losing; it's HOW they're losing


Viva Magglio
04-03-2003, 09:16 PM
If the three losses in as many games were ones in which we played well but just got outplayed by the Royals, I would not be as onery over this. However, we have played like complete crap. The eighth inning is a perfect example of this.

I am slightly revising my "FIRE JERRY MANUEL" criteria. If the Sox are below .500 on April 28, fire him. That is a Monday off day between home series with Minnesota and Oakland.

GASHWOUND
04-03-2003, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
If the three losses in as many games were ones in which we played well but just got outplayed by the Royals, I would not be as onery over this. However, we have played like complete crap. The eighth inning is a perfect example of this.

I am slightly revising my "FIRE JERRY MANUEL" criteria. If the Sox are below .500 on April 28, fire him. That is a Monday off day between home series with Minnesota and Oakland.

I agree, but we played like crap and the Royals did just about everything right and all the games were pretty close(except for that 8th inning..which I think we should've got out of if that ump would've called Sweeney out on the check swing, but I won't blame our lost on that :smile: )
The Royals were just super hot and we were stone cold..We have gone into our slump..all teams go through it, ours just happen to occur opening the season.

jeremyb1
04-03-2003, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
If the three losses in as many games were ones in which we played well but just got outplayed by the Royals, I would not be as onery over this. However, we have played like complete crap. The eighth inning is a perfect example of this.

I am slightly revising my "FIRE JERRY MANUEL" criteria. If the Sox are below .500 on April 28, fire him. That is a Monday off day between home series with Minnesota and Oakland.

but see that's the problem. how the team loses is important to us as fans watching the game because its much harder to watch your pen give up seven runs after coming in with the lead but in the end the bottom line is that a loss. any loss is still the same in the won loss column. the team didn't look good losing but there's no reason that couldn't turn around at any point and then the "bad losses" have no long lasting affect on the team's record other than that they're losses. so, since the losses count the same as any other in the standings as long as the team doesn't look this bad in the month it really doesn't matter how bad we look.

MHOUSE
04-03-2003, 10:09 PM
I thought we deserved to win Monday and even Tuesday we should have done better. But the Royals were hot and they rode it into today which we deserved to lose the way we played. I mean a cheap win would be fine by me but we never looked like escaping with just Jose's heroics. The Royals outplayed us and hopefully we can do better against the Tigers.

SoxxoS
04-03-2003, 10:25 PM
And the Twins did what they were supposed to do and won their first three games against inferior competition. That probably hurts the most...

Lip Man 1
04-03-2003, 10:38 PM
And they didn't kick the ball all over the place doing it.

I'm afraid Jeremy and I will have to disagree again. As we discussed once before, teams do suffer psychological losses which cause them problems in the games afterwards.

I pointed out how the Sox responded to the crippling blown games from Keith Foulke over the past two years and they were awful. Things like going 3-7 after the loss and so on.

Even pro athletes have psyches and the Sox apparently have very fragile ones.

There are losses and then there are losses... This also is where a manager who is good at motivation comes in, it's possible a good one can limit the damage.

Lip

jeremyb1
04-04-2003, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
And they didn't kick the ball all over the place doing it.

I'm afraid Jeremy and I will have to disagree again. As we discussed once before, teams do suffer psychological losses which cause them problems in the games afterwards.

I pointed out how the Sox responded to the crippling blown games from Keith Foulke over the past two years and they were awful. Things like going 3-7 after the loss and so on.

Even pro athletes have psyches and the Sox apparently have very fragile ones.

There are losses and then there are losses... This also is where a manager who is good at motivation comes in, it's possible a good one can limit the damage.

i'm not arguing that hard losses never have psycological impacts on the players, i just don't think the players psyches are as fragile as some seem to think. as professionals who play 162 games every season they have a better understanding about staying focused and mentally tough for an entire season and aren't as reactionary about a few losses as some fans are.

think back to just last season when we should've won three games from the mariners and ended up losing two games in an incredibly frustrating fashion. we bounced back fine and that was the same exact team. last season we also got off to an outstanding start in the first month and that momentum wasn't enough to cary the team through the rest of the season.

cornball
04-04-2003, 06:28 AM
We lost 3 games, "the sky is falling" mentality is not right at this point. The defense has always been an issue, although many have had ways to justify it in the past.

Once the middle of the order hits, they will go on a run. It is a longgggggggggg season, so relax and enjoy. Although sometimes you do want to pull your hair out, especially with the mental mistakes more so than the physical.

guillen4life13
04-04-2003, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i'm not arguing that hard losses never have psycological impacts on the players, i just don't think the players psyches are as fragile as some seem to think. as professionals who play 162 games every season they have a better understanding about staying focused and mentally tough for an entire season and aren't as reactionary about a few losses as some fans are.

think back to just last season when we should've won three games from the mariners and ended up losing two games in an incredibly frustrating fashion. we bounced back fine and that was the same exact team. last season we also got off to an outstanding start in the first month and that momentum wasn't enough to cary the team through the rest of the season.

There's a difference between being beaten by a playoff caliber team and a bottom feeder.

gosox41
04-04-2003, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND
I agree, but we played like crap and the Royals did just about everything right and all the games were pretty close(except for that 8th inning..which I think we should've got out of if that ump would've called Sweeney out on the check swing, but I won't blame our lost on that :smile: )
The Royals were just super hot and we were stone cold..We have gone into our slump..all teams go through it, ours just happen to occur opening the season.


Let's hope the Sox don't dig too big of a hole. Mot fans seem to rationalize it saying that there's 159 games left, etc. Well before you know it this team can be 8-17 and 10 games out of first. The bleeding needs to stop now during the easy part of the schedule.

Bob

kermittheefrog
04-04-2003, 11:20 AM
I don't know if other people have mentioned this but I did in my blog... The Sox lost because Thomas, Maggs, PK and Lee combined to go 6 for 39. Colon or no Colon our offense is our best asset and if the guys in the middle don't produce we lose. I'm not worried because the guys in the middle will produce. Hopefully starting today.

Iwritecode
04-04-2003, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I don't know if other people have mentioned this but I did in my blog... The Sox lost because Thomas, Maggs, PK and Lee combined to go 6 for 39. Colon or no Colon our offense is our best asset and if the guys in the middle don't produce we lose. I'm not worried because the guys in the middle will produce. Hopefully starting today.

I'm not sure I'd include Frank as part of the problem. He's not getting a lot of hits but he is getting on base at least half the time as shown by his .500 OBP. It's the 3 guys behind him that aren't driving him in.

Also, you can really only blame the offense for the first 2 games. Both Burly and Colon pitched well enough to earn the win. Yesterday they could've scored in double digits and still lost...

DirtySouthsider
04-04-2003, 12:48 PM
I couldn't agree more with every reply on this thread.


AGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

MHOUSE
04-04-2003, 01:31 PM
Frank has been getting on base with the walks and a couple of hits. Paulie has been AWOL in all aspects and C. Lee looks awful at the plate. Maggs is in a funk but at least he's driving in runs. I would put pressure on Paulie and Carlos to step it up. Frank and Maggs are getting there. I think that although the Royals have been a bottom feeder in the past, they played some real good baseball consistently for three games. I think that we need to give them some credit for beating us instead of us losing it.

pudge
04-04-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1


think back to just last season when we should've won three games from the mariners and ended up losing two games in an incredibly frustrating fashion. we bounced back fine and that was the same exact team. last season we also got off to an outstanding start in the first month and that momentum wasn't enough to cary the team through the rest of the season.

I think that Mariners series didcated what the season was all about: inconsistent, frustrating play. And I think this Royals series is going to dictate the same thing.

voodoochile
04-04-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Frank has been getting on base with the walks and a couple of hits. Paulie has been AWOL in all aspects and C. Lee looks awful at the plate. Maggs is in a funk but at least he's driving in runs. I would put pressure on Paulie and Carlos to step it up. Frank and Maggs are getting there. I think that although the Royals have been a bottom feeder in the past, they played some real good baseball consistently for three games. I think that we need to give them some credit for beating us instead of us losing it.

KC was 18-6 in ST. Right now they are on a high. They honestly expect for someting good to happen to them and then they will win the game. The Sox meanwhile seem to expect the opposite - that even if they do something good, they will still lose in the end. At best they are playing like a team that is going through the motions. Maybe they just expect to show up and beat teams like KC. They better think again...