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SoxxoS
03-29-2003, 10:59 PM
Right now, who would you rather have, and why?


I was just reading an article on ESPN highlighting the young pitchers, and they had Buerhle ranked higher than Prior. If you had to draft one, who would it be?

SoxxoS
03-29-2003, 11:01 PM
Here is the article (http://espn.go.com/mlb/spring2003/columns/misc/1530851.html)

gosox41
03-29-2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Right now, who would you rather have, and why?


I was just reading an article on ESPN highlighting the young pitchers, and they had Buerhle ranked higher than Prior. If you had to draft one, who would it be?

Long term I'd probably have tot take Prior. A power pitcher with excellent mechanics that can throw 4 pitches for strikes and is 22 years old has a lot of upside. There's a certain presence of a pitcher like that taking the mound every fifth day.

For this season I'd take Buehrle becuase he's more proven. While he has excellent control and can hit his spots he doesn't have the quality of pitches as Prior.

Bob

Fridaythe13thJason
03-29-2003, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Long term I'd probably have tot take Prior. A power pitcher with excellent mechanics that can throw 4 pitches for strikes and is 22 years old has a lot of upside. There's a certain presence of a pitcher like that taking the mound every fifth day.

For this season I'd take Buehrle becuase he's more proven. While he has excellent control and can hit his spots he doesn't have the quality of pitches as Prior.

Bob

I would agree with Bob. There is a lot to be said for the pitcher who can hit all his spots with multiple pitches (a la Maddux), but there is also a lot to be said for the power guy. Now, if Prior were just a power guy with a trick pitch, (a la Kerry Wood), I wouldn't be so quick to take him, but he is something special. He could be the once in a lifetime pitcher who has power and can hit his spots with a multitude of pitches (a la Pedro).

For this year's and next year's World Series runs, I am glad to have Buehrle, but in 4 years, I have this gut feeling that Prior will be a monster. Hopefully the Cub's will be dumb (a la Maddux) and he can be a monster elsewhere.

But don't worry, even if he's a Cub, the fans will be too stupid to talk about him. They'll still just be talking Sammy and his aging, broken down, 15 homer a year body.

guillen4life13
03-29-2003, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by SoCalUIC
I would agree with Bob. There is a lot to be said for the pitcher who can hit all his spots with multiple pitches (a la Maddux), but there is also a lot to be said for the power guy. Now, if Prior were just a power guy with a trick pitch, (a la Kerry Wood), I wouldn't be so quick to take him, but he is something special. He could be the once in a lifetime pitcher who has power and can hit his spots with a multitude of pitches (a la Pedro).

For this year's and next year's World Series runs, I am glad to have Buehrle, but in 4 years, I have this gut feeling that Prior will be a monster. Hopefully the Cub's will be dumb (a la Maddux) and he can be a monster elsewhere.

But don't worry, even if he's a Cub, the fans will be too stupid to talk about him. They'll still just be talking Sammy and his aging, broken down, 15 homer a year body.


Or his severely messed up body from the Flinstone vitamins. :nandrolone

TheBigHurt
03-29-2003, 11:50 PM
Beurhle!!!!!!

gogosoxgogo
03-29-2003, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by TheBigHurt
Beurhle!!!!!!

Who's this? Some high school top pitching prospect or something? Are the Sox trying to get this kid?

A.T. Money
03-30-2003, 02:45 AM
Buehrle, because a good lefty starter like himself is hard to come by.

There are plenty of good right handers. If you get a lefty like Buehrle, he'll be more valuable IMHO.

baggio202
03-30-2003, 02:55 AM
buehrle for 2 reasons...

one he is a lefty

two he's a proven winner...even if prior develops into a better pitcher than buehrle how much better could he be???...but prior hasnt accomplished anything yet..he is still potential..there is no gaurentee he will ever reach his potential..buehrle already has...what if prior turns into the next rick ankiel???

go with buehrle

gosox41
03-30-2003, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by baggio202
buehrle for 2 reasons...

one he is a lefty

two he's a proven winner...even if prior develops into a better pitcher than buehrle how much better could he be???...but prior hasnt accomplished anything yet..he is still potential..there is no gaurentee he will ever reach his potential..buehrle already has...what if prior turns into the next rick ankiel???

go with buehrle

Just to play Devil's advocate, Buehrle has thrown a lot of innings at the major league level this season. It may take it's toll on him. There's a stat about the number of innings a pitcher has thrown by the age of 25 and their likelihood of a breakdown later in their career.

While Prior could also throw a ton of innings by the time he's 25, everyone raves about his mechanics.

Bob

SoxxoS
03-30-2003, 11:24 AM
Just for my view on the subject, I think I would rather have Prior. You talk about mechanics-Prior has unbelieveable mechanics. The ball comes out 94-96 with no effort of strain at all. He came up and pretty much dominated MLB (maybe not dominated, but close for being not even one year in professional baseball.

Plus, I love guys that can strike people out like that (see:Zito, Johnson, Shilling, Martinez, Clemens). Buerhle is right behind, but for me, I think Prior is the clear-cut choice.

SoxFan14
03-30-2003, 11:37 AM
I know I don't post all that often but I read this board all the time. I just had to add my opinion on this one. I would trade Buehrle straight up for Prior in a heartbeat. I like MB but Prior is going to dominate for years to come. His mechanics are unbelievable and his fastball still reaches the high 90's in the late innings. Mark will be a good pitcher but I it seems like Prior will be a great one.

TheBigHurt
03-30-2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
Who's this? Some high school top pitching prospect or something? Are the Sox trying to get this kid?

DAM like eveyone says i open myself to critisicm so easy :)

Anyway No Beurhle is in Tripple A he is currently listed as the top 10 pitchers on the KNIGHTS!!!

ssang
03-30-2003, 04:15 PM
In all honesty, I beleive the choice has to be Mark Prior, hands down! This guy is electric. But don't worry, he'll get so good that the Cubs won't be willing to pay for his lofty contract and he'll eventually sign with the Yankees, Red Sox, D-Backs, or Cardinals.

34 Inch Stick
03-31-2003, 08:38 AM
Gotta agree with Bob on this one.

Let's pray we have the luck of having this same argument 10 years from now.

ScottyTheSoxFan
03-31-2003, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by baggio202
buehrle already has...what if prior turns into the next rick ankiel???

that would be cause for a celebration! :gulp:

Dadawg_77
03-31-2003, 09:50 AM
Buerhle is a lit bit to much of a finesse pitcher at his point in his career. One of the reason the Sox may not want to sign him to a long term deal. Prior is the real deal, and should have a better career then Mark, just don't tell my cub fan friends that I said that.

K/9 K/BB OPSvs
Prior 11.34 3.87 .667

Buerhle 5.22 2.32 .694

SoxxoS
05-20-2003, 11:33 PM
I just thought it would be funny/sad to bring this post back I started before the season. I know we are only 25% through the season, but it is CLEAR who the choice is, and there should be no argument.

J-Murr
05-20-2003, 11:41 PM
I think that you would have to take Prior. A young flamethrower who gets strikeouts is the real deal.

hose
05-21-2003, 06:00 AM
Prior, no doubt about it.

The guy is one of the best pitchers in MLB.

Jurr
05-21-2003, 06:20 AM
this the the biggest no brainer debate in history. It's like comparing Maddux to Steve Avery. Prior is going to be the cheese for a long time. He is going to set standards for hitting by a pitcher (ex...three hits against St.Louis last week), his mechanics are awesome, and he's only going to get 10 times better with experience. Don't get me wrong..Buehrle is a solid guy, a great lefty. That being said, he's not ever going to be the pitcher that Prior is or will become. I hate that the scrubs have him right now.

Iguana775
05-21-2003, 07:45 AM
Prior. He has already become a damn good pitcher and he has practially flawless mechanics.

I dont get the arguement that burly would be better this year. WHY? he has done crap. he is getting clobbered everytime he goes out now. sure he was pretty good to start the year but he is sucking ass now. the guy throw way too many pitches for not being a K pitcher.

Hangar18
05-21-2003, 08:07 AM
Hmmm, Buehrle or Prior. If Im a losing organization, and I didnt even have this Prior guy on my radar, Id Let the MEDIA choose for me. The Media is gushing over the guy, calling him the greatest AAA (arrogant amateur athlete) ever. So I think Id take him. Even if hes asking for the Highest Amount Ever Given to a Player as a "Bonus" (10 million) Despite having never thrown a Professional Pitch. But only if the Team In front of me Passes him up in the Draft. Which we know wont happen, because who wouldnt take the Greatest Pitcher of all Time, Especially since everyone and their mother admits that PITCHING IS the most important part of baseball, and PITCHING is very hard to come by unless your the Yankees. Pitching is so hard to come by, Mediocre Lefthanders are still in the league because Pitching is so Rare. So if Im picking 2nd in the draft, I'd just set my Sights on another PITCHER because I know the GREATEST AAA PITCHER of all time will NOT be available to me. Unless.......the commissioner tips the team with the #1 pick about their being folded.......and they decide to save some of that 10million, and skip him in the draft so that he would be available to me...picking 2nd. Ahhh....its a pipedream. would NEVER happen.....

kermittheefrog
05-21-2003, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Hmmm, Buehrle or Prior. If Im a losing organization, and I didnt even have this Prior guy on my radar, Id Let the MEDIA choose for me. The Media is gushing over the guy, calling him the greatest AAA (arrogant amateur athlete) ever. So I think Id take him. Even if hes asking for the Highest Amount Ever Given to a Player as a "Bonus" (10 million) Despite having never thrown a Professional Pitch. But only if the Team In front of me Passes him up in the Draft. Which we know wont happen, because who wouldnt take the Greatest Pitcher of all Time, Especially since everyone and their mother admits that PITCHING IS the most important part of baseball, and PITCHING is very hard to come by unless your the Yankees. Pitching is so hard to come by, Mediocre Lefthanders are still in the league because Pitching is so Rare. So if Im picking 2nd in the draft, I'd just set my Sights on another PITCHER because I know the GREATEST AAA PITCHER of all time will NOT be available to me. Unless.......the commissioner tips the team with the #1 pick about their being folded.......and they decide to save some of that 10million, and skip him in the draft so that he would be available to me...picking 2nd. Ahhh....its a pipedream. would NEVER happen.....

The Twins didn't pass on Prior because they thought they'd be folded, they passed on Prior because they didn't want to pay him.

TheBigHurt
05-21-2003, 09:48 AM
I change it to Prior :) BE GOOD

Procol Harum
05-21-2003, 09:50 AM
I like Buerhle and believe he will snap out of his current funk, but given the choice between the two I'd take Prior. The boy has the mental and physical tools that will--barring injury--make him a top-line pitcher in the Bigs for the next 12-15 years.

Besides, if he was on the Sox, I'd also use him as a dh to help jump-start our pathetic offense.... :(:

voodoochile
05-21-2003, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
The Twins didn't pass on Prior because they thought they'd be folded, they passed on Prior because they didn't want to pay him.

Yes, but do you honestly think the two are unrelated? Maybe they would have passed on him anyway, but with their team being folded in the next few months, the decision became a no brainer. No one gives a $10M signing bonus to a guy if they don't think the team will be around long enough for the guy pitch in the majors. What would be the point? Give him your money and then watch some other team pick him up on the scrap heap after the team is folded? You might as well just take $10M and put it in a bonfire for all the good it would do you.

And remember this is the same owner who used his portion of the revenue sharing money in 2000 to give some office people bonuses and then promptly pocketed the rest...

kermittheefrog
05-21-2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Yes, but do you honestly think the two are unrelated? Maybe they would have passed on him anyway, but with their team being folded in the next few months, the decision became a no brainer. No one gives a $10M signing bonus to a guy if they don't think the team will be around long enough for the guy pitch in the majors. What would be the point? Give him your money and then watch some other team pick him up on the scrap heap after the team is folded? You might as well just take $10M and put it in a bonfire for all the good it would do you.

And remember this is the same owner who used his portion of the revenue sharing money in 2000 to give some office people bonuses and then promptly pocketed the rest...

I don't think contraction was ever a realistic threat and I don't think the Twins organization was operating under a fear of being eliminated. If you're going to be contracted why give Joe Mauer money? Sure he didn't get Mark Prior money but the guy was still expensive. They could have gone with someone that wouldn't command much of a bonus at all if they really wanted to minimize cost. Mauer was still the third best talent in the draft. Guys with less pedigree have gone higher. When the Marlins drafted Adrian Gonzalez at No. 1 in 2000 a lot of people only saw him as a middle first rounder and thought the move was more economically based than talent based. The Twins passed on Prior almost entirely because Carl Pohlad is a tightwad.

Hangar18
05-21-2003, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
The Twins didn't pass on Prior because they thought they'd be folded, they passed on Prior because they didn't want to pay him.

Thats what the Twins, now that the Courts made them stay open for Business, want you to believe. Fact is......They thought they were going to use that Insider Trader Info via Selig to save some money. They got Burned....and they Burned their Fans at the same time.

Vsahajpal
05-21-2003, 11:31 AM
Yes, the two are unrelated. Just a typical clueless Hangar rant.

The highest bonus in MLB draft history was given to....White Sox top prospect Joe Borchard, who received a signing bonus of $5.3 million as the 12th pick in the 2000 amateur draft.

The second highest bonus in MLB history was awarded to Joe Mauer, the 1st overall draft choice (Minnesota); he received $5.15 million.

Prior, on the other hand, signed a 5-year major league contract worth $10.5 MM, part of which is a $4 million bonus prorated over the life of that contract. He will earn $1.45 million this season, a freakin' bargain.

Hangar18
05-21-2003, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
Yes, the two are unrelated. Just a typical clueless Hangar rant.

The highest bonus in MLB draft history was given to....White Sox top prospect Joe Borchard, who received a signing bonus of $5.3 million as the 12th pick in the 2000 amateur draft.

The second highest bonus in MLB history was awarded to Joe Mauer, the 1st overall draft choice (Minnesota); he received $5.15 million.

Prior, on the other hand, signed a 5-year major league contract worth $10.5 MM, part of which is a $4 million bonus prorated over the life of that contract. He will earn $1.45 million this season, a freakin' bargain.

Yes, true that they gave him this money as part of a "contract"....
(very unique thinking on the cubs part imo) but dont think that because he wanted 10million, he didnt Get it. He got it the way the NBA moves money around and "launders" it if you will. He got that 10mil.

Vsahajpal
05-21-2003, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Yes, true that they gave him this money as part of a "contract"....
(very unique thinking on the cubs part imo) but dont think that because he wanted 10million, he didnt Get it. He got it the way the NBA moves money around and "launders" it if you will. He got that 10mil.

what?

Hangar18
05-21-2003, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
Yes, the two are unrelated. Just a typical clueless Hangar rant.



Rant...yes, it very much is. Clueless, probably not. The real crime is that most people havnt even raised and Eyebrow over some of these shenanigans. A commissioner loans the same Twin team money. How improper is that? How do we know that this "loan" wasnt really an advance Payment for knowledge of folding a team in the near future? Twins fans, Baseball and ethics were Robbed that day when Prior went to the cubs that day. The "Griffey Effect" wouldve taken place othewise.

Daver
05-21-2003, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Rant...yes, it very much is. Clueless, probably not. The real crime is that most people havnt even raised and Eyebrow over some of these shenanigans. A commissioner loans the same Twin team money. How improper is that?

You have that backwards,Carl Pohlad loaned Selig money before he officially became the commisioner.

Selig loaned money,from MLB funds,to Jeff Loria so that he could buy the Marlins.

Hangar18
05-21-2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
what?

Im saying........Prior wanted 10milllion. Guaranteed. which is what a bonus is. guaranteed. cubs were smart and just made that part of a Contract to him. what is the minor league minimum? Im sure whatever is guaranteed to Prior now is Way more than he wouldve made had been just some minor league player being called up.

Vsahajpal
05-21-2003, 11:54 AM
I imagine you have a few copies of Sallinger's Cather in the Rye on your person. The Clement deal was a conspiracy, as was the McGriff trade, now this...

Hangar18
05-21-2003, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by daver
You have that backwards,Carl Pohlad loaned Selig money before he officially became the commisioner.

Selig loaned money,from MLB funds,to Jeff Loria so that he could buy the Marlins.

oops, had that wrong,,,thanks

Hangar18
05-21-2003, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
I imagine you have a few copies of Sallinger's Cather in the Rye on your person. The Clement deal was a conspiracy, as was the McGriff trade, now this...

heh heh. well, Those deals certainly werent in the interest of making the Marlins better now were they? Dumb Marlins dump two pitchers on the cubs, then realize theyre bullpen isnt that good after all, and they sure really could use a starter on that team. They wanted Colon badly (and was even more expensive than Clement ever was) after that dumb deal, then after not getting a Pitcher they Really Need, They Run out and Sign an Expensive CATCHER (Irod). Still Reeling from the fact they traded a Starter (clement) to the Cubs, now theyre considering trading one of the last good players they have a 3B Lowell to the Cubs (of all teams) for a PITCHER Juan Cruz. McGriff was "traded" here for a 32 yr old journeyman infielder, who is now out of baseball. How are trades like this good for baseball? The way it looks, these other teams the DRays, Marlins, Twins sure need these Players more than the Cubs do...

Mammoo
05-21-2003, 12:50 PM
I'd take Prior in a heartbeat. I would have said that at the beginning of the season as well.