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Randar68
08-16-2001, 12:10 PM
Well, last night Kris Honel went pitch-for-pitch with Rick Ankiel. He allowed 1 R, a HR, in 7 IP. He gave up 6 H, 1 BB, and 12 SO's!!! in lowering hie ERA to 2.65, but did not factor in the decision. Alec Hollifield gave up 2 runs in the bottom of the 8th to pick up the loss after Bristol tied the game in the top half.

Delvis Lantigua struck out 5 in a CG SHO of the Cubs' AA affiliate West-Tenn. He allowed only 4 H and 0 BB. Miguel Olivo was 2-3 with 2 RBI and 2 R with a HR and a triple. Lantigua is now 3-0 with a 1.93 ERA since being promoted to AA. Borchard was 1-4 and broke his 2 game HR streak, wile Olivo has hit one in 3 straight. Former Sox draftee Bobby hill had 2 of the 4 hits for West-Tenn.

Charlotte beat Norfolk 3-2. Josh Paul was 2-3 with a HR and Joe Crede's slump continued with him going 0-4. He is trying to learn to be more compact and shorted his swing, and seems to be having trouble adjusting....


Winston-Salem, aka, the hitless wonders, lost 3-1 on a wasted effort by Eduardo Pena. He went 8 IP and giving up only 3 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, and 6 K's.

Kannapolis won 8-3 behind 2001 draftee Jim Bullard, who moved to 3-0. Lackoff, Rogowski, and Ciraco all had 2 hits, and Wally Rosa homered. Bullard gave up 7 H, 3 ER, 1 BB and 2 K's before being supported by Sweeney and Smith for 4 scoreless innings.

Tree
08-16-2001, 12:21 PM
Bobby Hill.......

Isnt that the shortstop that the Whitesox drafted but could not sign?

Olivo isnt he a catcher? We got him from Oakland last year right?
Is he any good?

Iguana775
08-16-2001, 12:28 PM
yea, that is the same bobby hill and yes, olivo is a catcher. he is suppose to be good. not sure if he really is.

Randar68
08-16-2001, 12:43 PM
yea, that is the same bobby hill and yes, olivo is a catcher. he is suppose to be good. not sure if he really is.

Well, Olivo doesn't appear to be a guy with a lot of potential for hitting .300, but he does have good power and hits the ball with authority. As far as catching: He has a great arm and very good footwork. He's built like Mark Johnson, 6' 0" and 180-190 pounds. He runs well, but has a ton more power potential than either Paul or Johnson.

He has been known to let one fly into center field, but most of his errors come on balls that get away from him, or like many young players, when he is trying to do too much.

Iguana775
08-16-2001, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Tree
Bobby Hill.......

Isnt that the shortstop that the Whitesox drafted but could not sign?

http://www.fox.com/kingofthehill/bios/images/photobobby.gif
"The sox couldnt give me enough money"

Bmr31
08-16-2001, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Well, Olivo doesn't appear to be a guy with a lot of potential for hitting .300, but he does have good power and hits the ball with authority. As far as catching: He has a great arm and very good footwork. He's built like Mark Johnson, 6' 0" and 180-190 pounds. He runs well, but has a ton more power potential than either Paul or Johnson.

He has been known to let one fly into center field, but most of his errors come on balls that get away from him, or like many young players, when he is trying to do too much.


so basically, hes nothing special?

voodoochile
08-16-2001, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31



so basically, hes nothing special?

Whatsamattah. BMR, you bored and looking for a fight?

Bmr31
08-16-2001, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Whatsamattah. BMR, you bored and looking for a fight?


a fight? His report makes it seem like the guy is an average minor leaguer.......

Randar68
08-16-2001, 01:07 PM
a fight? His report makes it seem like the guy is an average minor leaguer.......

I thought I was nice. He is an above average receiver and very good at throwing runners out. While he doesn't hit for average, (he needs to learn more patience at the plate) , he does have much better power potential than 90% of our position players. He could be a .275-20-70 guy, and that's above average for major leaguers....


His problems are allmost all attributed to his youth and immaturity. Patience at the plate, thinking you can make every play in the field.

voodoochile
08-16-2001, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31



a fight? His report makes it seem like the guy is an average minor leaguer.......

I don't know about that, he does mention a ton of potential, good power and a cannon arm. Not every minor leaqge catcher can claim those things (Josh Paul)

Bmr31
08-16-2001, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


I don't know about that, he does mention a ton of potential, good power and a cannon arm. Not every minor leaqge catcher can claim those things (Josh Paul)


according to randars report, that guy isnt even a prospect. He cant hit .300 and he has problems defensively. if his report is accurate, the guy will be a backup catcher in the majors, at best.

Randar68
08-16-2001, 01:11 PM
I don't know about that, he does mention a ton of potential, good power and a cannon arm. Not every minor leaqge catcher can claim those things (Josh Paul)

Hey, I didn't say he was a future All-Star, so bmr feels some need to be negative about a post of mine....surprised????

Bmr31
08-16-2001, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Hey, I didn't say he was a future All-Star, so bmr feels some need to be negative about a post of mine....surprised????


whooooooooooooa. i never said you said he was gonna be great. I simply said going by your report, he wasnt going to anything special. It had nothing to do with you dude.

Bmr31
08-16-2001, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Hey, I didn't say he was a future All-Star, so bmr feels some need to be negative about a post of mine....surprised????

calm down big fella :)

Tree
08-16-2001, 01:25 PM
Randar68 says that Olivo is going to be on the Arizona Fall League and that league is usually reserved for the upper tier of prospects. So maybe the Sox have him in their future plans

Bmr31
08-16-2001, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Tree
Randar68 says that Olivo is going to be on the Arizona Fall League and that league is usually reserved for the upper tier of prospects. So maybe the Sox have him in their future plans

im sure they do, but maybe as a backup catcher...

Jerry_Manuel
08-16-2001, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
im sure they do, but maybe as a backup catcher...

Backup to who?

He has to better then Josh Paul.

Bmr31
08-16-2001, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Backup to who?

He has to better then Josh Paul.

of course. Who knows where we will get a #1 catcher. But it doesnt sound like this guy will be what we need, either.

Randar68
08-16-2001, 01:32 PM
according to randars report, that guy isnt even a prospect. He cant hit .300 and he has problems defensively. if his report is accurate, the guy will be a backup catcher in the majors, at best.

OK...let me clarify...

I think Miguel Olivo has the potential to be a .275-20-75 hitter in the major leagues. Most of his problems are due to a lack of experience. I think he has the chance to be an All-Star caliber defensive catcher, with above average power. The fact that he hasn't hit for average is an indicator that he may not ever be able to. While he doesn't draw very many walks, he doesn't strike out a ton either. He has time to improve and is the best catching prospect in our system. As far as positional prospects, because he plays catcher, he is probably behind Crede, Borchard, and MAYBE Hummel, but ahead of guys like Valenzuela, Rogowski, Sandoval....

I think he is Not Ivan Rodriguez, but he has defensive skills similar to CJ and is more developed offensively than CJ ever was up till 2-3 years ago....

Bmr31
08-16-2001, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


OK...let me clarify...

I think Miguel Olivo has the potential to be a .275-20-75 hitter in the major leagues. Most of his problems are due to a lack of experience. I think he has the chance to be an All-Star caliber defensive catcher, with above average power. The fact that he hasn't hit for average is an indicator that he may not ever be able to. While he doesn't draw very many walks, he doesn't strike out a ton either. He has time to improve and is the best catching prospect in our system. As far as positional prospects, because he plays catcher, he is probably behind Crede, Borchard, and MAYBE Hummel, but ahead of guys like Valenzuela, Rogowski, Sandoval....

I think he is Not Ivan Rodriguez, but he has defensive skills similar to CJ and is more developed offensively than CJ ever was up till 2-3 years ago....

okay tell me his stats from this season. Dont "prospects" generally have better stats in the minors? If so, it doesnt look too promising for this guy....

Randar68
08-16-2001, 01:45 PM
okay tell me his stats from this season. Dont "prospects" generally have better stats in the minors? If so, it doesnt look too promising for this guy....

Offensive stats are generally not the most important factor in measuring a catcher prospect. Olivo is a defensive specialist who is an average hitter with above average power. I think you will find many of the best catchers in the majors did not tear up the minor leagues. The time and energy required to learn the defensive and mental aspects of becoming a major league catcher takes a lot of time away from learning to become a major league hitter....

Olivo is hitting .255-13-50 in 267 AB's (compared to Borchard's 437 AB's). He has 19 doubles, a triple, and 28 BB's to 56 K's, exactly 2-1 ratio of K's to BB's.

He was elected to the Future's Game in Seattle and is 23 years old, still young for a catcher.


Again, I don't think he has all-around All-Star potential, but he could be a very solid everyday catcher. I think we'd all be happy with a catcher, who, although not an All-Star, is solid defensively and hits .275-20-75........




BTW, don't ask me to prove anything with stats when you claim they never 'proove' anything......you can't have your cake and eat it too.....

Randar68
08-16-2001, 01:47 PM
okay tell me his stats from this season. Dont "prospects" generally have better stats in the minors? If so, it doesnt look too promising for this guy....


BTW, what were Corey Patterson's stats the past 2 years, when he was the #1 prospect in baseball????

This year, he's hitting .253-7-32 in 367 AB's......as an OF'er......

Bmr31
08-16-2001, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Offensive stats are generally not the most important factor in measuring a catcher prospect. Olivo is a defensive specialist who is an average hitter with above average power. I think you will find many of the best catchers in the majors did not tear up the minor leagues. The time and energy required to learn the defensive and mental aspects of becoming a major league catcher takes a lot of time away from learning to become a major league hitter....

Olivo is hitting .255-13-50 in 267 AB's (compared to Borchard's 437 AB's). He has 19 doubles, a triple, and 28 BB's to 56 K's, exactly 2-1 ratio of K's to BB's.

He was elected to the Future's Game in Seattle and is 23 years old, still young for a catcher.


Again, I don't think he has all-around All-Star potential, but he could be a very solid everyday catcher. I think we'd all be happy with a catcher, who, although not an All-Star, is solid defensively and hits .275-20-75........




BTW, don't ask me to prove anything with stats when you claim they never 'proove' anything......you can't have your cake and eat it too.....

True, but i need stats when regarding minor league prospects because ive never seen them play. Its all i have to go by. So if you double his at bats, it makes a full regular season. he hits .255 with 26 hr and 100 rbi. That sounds great to me, especially if hes a solid defensive catcher. The .255 average does concern me, especially when hes facing minor league pitching.....

Kilroy
08-16-2001, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Well, last night Kris Honel went pitch-for-pitch with Rick Ankiel. He allowed 1 R, a HR, in 7 IP. He gave up 6 H, 1 BB, and 12 SO's!!! in lowering hie ERA to 2.65, but did not factor in the decision.

Randar, where do you find the stats on Honel?? I'd like to pass on the link to a guy who's son played with him until he was drafted...

Bmr31
08-16-2001, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy


Randar, where do you find the stats on Honel?? I'd like to pass on the link to a guy who's son played with him until he was drafted...

for that matter, can u give me a link to the best site for the sox minor league teams? I have some but they suck.....

Randar68
08-16-2001, 01:58 PM
True, but i need stats when regarding minor league prospects because ive never seen them play. Its all i have to go by. So if you double his at bats, it makes a full regular season. he hits .255 with 26 hr and 100 rbi. That sounds great to me, especially if hes a solid defensive catcher. The .255 average does concern me, especially when hes facing minor league pitching.....

I know, bmr, just giving you a hrad time, it's my job. To be fair, Hoover Metropolitan Stadium is a HUGE park. Olivo is a FB hitter, and has been penalized a bit by the large dimensions. The .255 average can be improved with better patience and by cutting his swing down, which is, as most AA player who hit .250, too long and has a hole in it that is too big for the Majors.

I think he will be alright, and I venture to say that if he played in Charlotte, this year, would have over 20 HR's in the same # of at-bats, since Charlotte plays in a band-box.....

Again, he has the skillz, but he just needs the time to develop....he has been better in the second half....

Randar68
08-16-2001, 02:03 PM
Randar, where do you find the stats on Honel?? I'd like to pass on the link to a guy who's son played with him until he was drafted...

Well,

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com
http://www.excite.com under sports, other
http://sports.zip2.com/mnrbbl/home/mnrbbl_mainpage.cfm



But, the best way to check other than calling Bristol or Tuscon is to go to http://www.baseballamerica.com and look under stats for season stats or scoreboards for the previous night's boxscore.

Tree
08-16-2001, 02:06 PM
Ok this is a little off the mark but we traded a relief pitcher for him was it Chad Bradford?

Bmr31
08-16-2001, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


I know, bmr, just giving you a hrad time, it's my job. To be fair, Hoover Metropolitan Stadium is a HUGE park. Olivo is a FB hitter, and has been penalized a bit by the large dimensions. The .255 average can be improved with better patience and by cutting his swing down, which is, as most AA player who hit .250, too long and has a hole in it that is too big for the Majors.

I think he will be alright, and I venture to say that if he played in Charlotte, this year, would have over 20 HR's in the same # of at-bats, since Charlotte plays in a band-box.....

Again, he has the skillz, but he just needs the time to develop....he has been better in the second half....

lets hope so....we are desperate for a solid catcher.

FarWestChicago
08-16-2001, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


lets hope so....we are desperate for a solid catcher.

:versatile

I'm available!

rmusacch
08-16-2001, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Tree
Ok this is a little off the mark but we traded a relief pitcher for him was it Chad Bradford?

Yes it was Bradford.

Iwritecode
08-16-2001, 02:36 PM
:hitless
I don't know why you guys are all worried about batting averages and homeruns. As long as you have good defense it doesn't matter if you have any offense. I could probably hit .099 and still start everyday. Especially if I complain about my playing time. Right uncle Jerry?


:gun
I knew I should have complained about more about PT. Damn you Rowand!

Bmr31
08-16-2001, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
:hitless
I don't know why you guys are all worried about batting averages and homeruns. As long as you have good defense it doesn't matter if you have any offense. I could probably hit .099 and still start everyday. Especially if I complain about my playing time. Right uncle Jerry?


:gun
I knew I should have complained about more about PT. Damn you Rowand!

*****!!! :)

Jerry_Manuel
08-16-2001, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Tree
Ok this is a little off the mark but we traded a relief pitcher for him was it Chad Bradford?

Yes it was, Bradford for Olivo.

HootieMcBoob
08-16-2001, 03:05 PM
I remember reading that Olivo was selected for the Future's game in Seattle (So he must be pretty good)... however he was left off the future's roster because he was suspended for corking his bat. Olivo said he didn't know it was corked, though.

I saw Olivo play in Tucson in spring training - he was signing autographs thru the fence but no one knew who he was - then I saw all his catcher's gear and he looked dark/hispanic. I told him "Good luck Miguel - go get 'em!"

If you get the chance, GO TO SEE SPRING TRAINING. It's AWESOME. I saw Borchard and Rowand play (didn't really know anything about Rowand at the time). I remember Borchard hit a BOMB off the 40-ft. high centerfield wall - musta been a 430 footer.

Also I saw Randy Johnson pitch in the FIRST ROW. It was incredible. Plus, Arizona weather in March is great.