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Soxboyrob
03-26-2003, 11:05 PM
This link is what I consider to be good news. Not because I'm happy about Wright still having pain in his elbow, but because I think Stewart has earned the right to come north w/ the team for now. Danny probably ought to be in AAA for a while until he can develop the ability to go deeply into games again.

http://whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20030326&content_id=244015&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp

TheBigHurt
03-26-2003, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
This link is what I consider to be good news. Not because I'm happy about Wright still having pain in his elbow, but because I think Stewart has earned the right to come north w/ the team for now. Danny probably ought to be in AAA for a while until he can develop the ability to go deeply into games again.

http://whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20030326&content_id=244015&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp

YUP, well said young JOSH looks pretty solid to say the least i think he may earn himself a permanent spot in the starting rotation

BE GOOD

bc2k
03-26-2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
This link is what I consider to be good news. Not because I'm happy about Wright still having pain in his elbow, but because I think Stewart has earned the right to come north w/ the team for now. Danny probably ought to be in AAA for a while until he can develop the ability to go deeply into games again.

http://whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20030326&content_id=244015&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp

While I'm interested in seeing Josh Stewart in the Bigs, I don't understand the comment about Wright. He was a horse, he had the ability to pitch deep last year. Nardi's pitch count and then Manuel's quick hook was what prevented him from doing so on a consistant basis.

Daver
03-26-2003, 11:15 PM
This could be a real case scenario,but I doubt it,it has smokescreen all over it.If Wright was unable to pitch he would have been reassigned already.

TornLabrum
03-26-2003, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
While I'm interested in seeing Josh Stewart in the Bigs, I don't understand the comment about Wright. He was a horse, he had the ability to pitch deep last year. Nardi's pitch count and then Manuel's quick hook was what prevented him from doing so on a consistant basis.

Not to mention those 9-run innings.

bc2k
03-26-2003, 11:18 PM
I do not like Stewart and Buehrle pitching back-to-back. Manuel better put Colon between them.

WinningUgly!
03-26-2003, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
While I'm interested in seeing Josh Stewart in the Bigs, I don't understand the comment about Wright. He was a horse, he had the ability to pitch deep last year. Nardi's pitch count and then Manuel's quick hook was what prevented him from doing so on a consistant basis.

He won't be ready to go deep into games for a while because he only pitched 5.1 innings this entire spring training. You don't just pick up the ball & throw 100+ pitches without working yourself back into shape, especially with the injury.

VeeckAsInWreck
03-26-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
I do not like Stewart and Buehrle pitching back-to-back. Manuel better put Colon between them.

Heck, why not let Stewart pitch opening day, then you start Colon, and Buehrle can be the #3 starter!

TheBigHurt
03-26-2003, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by VeeckAsInWreck
Heck, why not let Stewart pitch opening day, then you start Colon, and Buehrle can be the #3 starter!

DAM, thats 1 marvelous idea, Lets go for it!!!!!

voodoochile
03-26-2003, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by daver
This could be a real case scenario,but I doubt it,it has smokescreen all over it.If Wright was unable to pitch he would have been reassigned already.

Well, the article said that they still weren't sure if it was just normal soreness or an actual injury. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if his elbow was sore just because everyone is talking about it - psychosomatic (sp?) as it were.

Enough people ask you if your arm is sore, trust me, it starts to hurt. If your arm is your livelihood to boot, that pain gets magnified by worry. Danny has always been mentally fragile to. Get him out of the spotlight and let him figure it out.

Naming Stewart to be the 5th starter to start the season gives Danny more time to get comfortable and takes the pressure off him. Nothing wrong with that, though I know that some people will be convinced his arm is falling off and that it spells the end of the Sox season because they have to use a young pitcher in the 5th slot. I guess time will tell...

jeremyb1
03-26-2003, 11:49 PM
i'm glad we're being cautious with wright. my thought is that it probably isn't much though.

i think stewart is a good stop gap but i wouldn't be shocked to see him follow in the footsteps of some other crafty young pitchers that lacked extreme success and hype in the minors. i'm thinking of guys like josh fogg and john snyder that were crafty guys that seemed to be figured out by the league before long. you can also see this with crafty veterans at times like steve parris or kent bottenfield when they had excellent isolated seasons. eventually though the league seems to figure them out.

MarkEdward
03-27-2003, 12:06 AM
So right now, our rotation is:
Buehrle
Colon
Garland
Loazia
Stewart

Why wasn't Rauch just kept on the team to take that fifth starter spot? Stewart wasn't very dominant in AA last year, and I just can't see him being very successful in the majors right now.

Oh well, here's to the healing of Danny Wright's arm.

Lip Man 1
03-27-2003, 12:06 AM
As Gomer Pyle would say..."surprise, suprise, surprise!"

"Manuel said Wright felt some next-day soreness after throwing two innings Monday against Colorado. It was Wright's first spring appearance in nearly three weeks."

Well...once again it seems Doctor Manuel was wrong in his assessment of things. (His initial comments three weks ago were that Wright's injury was "nothing.")

Also it's interesting to note that the day after Wright last pitched a portion of the notes on the "official" White Sox web site said Wright felt fine.

Hmmmm, apparently someone lied didn't they?

Now the Sox add still another kid with little or no experience to a young rotation that's expected to win a division.

Mighty, mighty risky.

I know this is certainly no indication of how things are actually going to go during the season but kenny Rogers looked brilliant in his first spring start for the Twins. At least they have something positive to build on for next week

Lip

Randar68
03-27-2003, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
As Gomer Pyle would say..."surprise, suprise, surprise!"

"Manuel said Wright felt some next-day soreness after throwing two innings Monday against Colorado. It was Wright's first spring appearance in nearly three weeks."

Well...once again it seems Doctor Manuel was wrong in his assessment of things. (His initial comments three weks ago were that Wright's injury was "nothing.")

Also it's interesting to note that the day after Wright last pitched a portion of the notes on the "official" White Sox web site said Wright felt fine.

Hmmmm, apparently someone lied didn't they?

Now the Sox add still another kid with little or no experience to a young rotation that's expected to win a division.

Mighty, mighty risky.

I know this is certainly no indication of how things are actually going to go during the season but kenny Rogers looked brilliant in his first spring start for the Twins. At least they have something positive to build on for next week

Lip


YAWN...

Talk about predictable.

Chisox_cali
03-27-2003, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1

I know this is certainly no indication of how things are actually going to go during the season but kenny Rogers looked brilliant in his first spring start for the Twins. At least they have something positive to build on for next week

Lip

But couldn't, in theory, the Sox build on Stewart's impressive spring? As the Twins would build on Rogers' start...

MRKARNO
03-27-2003, 12:41 AM
Look at it this way:

Our organization is SO deep that we have 6-7 people who could start.

Buerhle
Colon
Loaiza
Garland
Wright
Stewart
Rauch

By next year if we keep our staff intact (yankee fans are convinced they'll get Colon) We'll have one of the best in the league 1-5

Brian26
03-27-2003, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
(yankee fans are convinced they'll get Colon)

You've got to be kidding? They're already talking about that? Geez. That's pathetic.

jeremyb1
03-27-2003, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
As Gomer Pyle would say..."surprise, suprise, surprise!"

"Manuel said Wright felt some next-day soreness after throwing two innings Monday against Colorado. It was Wright's first spring appearance in nearly three weeks."

Well...once again it seems Doctor Manuel was wrong in his assessment of things. (His initial comments three weks ago were that Wright's injury was "nothing.")

Also it's interesting to note that the day after Wright last pitched a portion of the notes on the "official" White Sox web site said Wright felt fine.

Hmmmm, apparently someone lied didn't they?

you're assuming a ton of facts not in evidence here lip.

first of all, the assessment of wright's health wasn't manuel's, it was the doctors. manuel simply repeated the fact that two seperate, reknowned doctors gave wright an mri and concluded there was no structural damage.

if anyone made a mistake here it is the doctors. however, there is nothing to suggest anyone made a mistake because there is nothing to suggest that wright does have structural damage.

additionally, there's no reason to believe anyone lied because there is nothing to suggest that wright did experience pain after his last outing.

your entire post is based on the assumption that wright has some sort of serious damage to his elbow when the report clearly states the soreness is almost certainly a result of wright's elbow strain or simply soreness which can be attributed from throwing after his long layoff.

hold2dibber
03-27-2003, 09:20 AM
I think the Sox made the right decision here. I'd rather see Wright slowly work himself back into shape (basically - to have the spring training he largely missed) while Stewart gets a few MLB starts under his belt. I, frankly, don't have a lot of long-term faith in Stewart. Although he has done well so far, he has only 5 (I think) strikeouts in 22 + spring training innings, which does not bode well (he's not fooling anybody up there). But that doesn't mean he won't be an adequate stop-gap until Wright gets healthy or Rauch gets his kinks worked out.

Soxboyrob
03-27-2003, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I, frankly, don't have a lot of long-term faith in Stewart. Although he has done well so far, he has only 5 (I think) strikeouts in 22 + spring training innings, which does not bode well (he's not fooling anybody up there). But that doesn't mean he won't be an adequate stop-gap until Wright gets healthy or Rauch gets his kinks worked out.

The K ratio is a bit of a concern for me, but it seems he's got a little Buehrle in him (not literally, of course). I've read quotes from hitters that have faced Stewart that sounded eerily similar to that of hitters that have faced Buehrle, i.e...."the ball looked like a perfect pitch to hit when it left his hand, but then it just hit the wrong part of my bat." KW yesterday explained that he doesn't have as good of stuff as Buehrle, but has a more deceptive delivery that hides the ball and keeps batters a little bit on edge. What I like is that this guy doesn't yield walks.

Another note today is that he's faced basically the A squads in all of his starts this spring, so his stats are vs. decent competition.

Lip Man 1
03-27-2003, 10:21 AM
Jeremy:

I understand where you are coming from but the fact is someone (Manuel) representing the Sox made statements back in early March and then the Sox official web site said he was fine (no soreness)

How do you explain this?

My only point again is that Manuel's NOT a doctor, he should SHUT UP then and let the doctors make the statements.

And if the Sox doctors are wrong (again) haven't the organization learned a thing from 2001?

Lip

hold2dibber
03-27-2003, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
The K ratio is a bit of a concern for me, but it seems he's got a little Buehrle in him (not literally, of course). I've read quotes from hitters that have faced Stewart that sounded eerily similar to that of hitters that have faced Buehrle, i.e...."the ball looked like a perfect pitch to hit when it left his hand, but then it just hit the wrong part of my bat." KW yesterday explained that he doesn't have as good of stuff as Buehrle, but has a more deceptive delivery that hides the ball and keeps batters a little bit on edge. What I like is that this guy doesn't yield walks.

Another note today is that he's faced basically the A squads in all of his starts this spring, so his stats are vs. decent competition.

If he's a poor man's Buehrle, that would be great at the back of the rotation. My only concern is that if his stuff isn't as good as Buehrle's, his deception alone won't be enough after the league has seen him a few times. But his results in the AFL and this spring speak for themselves - this guy is doing something right, and there's surely reason to believe that he can be an adequate no. 5 starter to start the season. Still, I hope Wright gets healthy and in pitching shape sooner rather than later, as I think he has more long-term upside than Stewart. But who knows, Danny Wright might be the next Wally Pipp as Stewart takes the league by storm .

MRKARNO
03-27-2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
You've got to be kidding? They're already talking about that? Geez. That's pathetic.

Yeah, I heard it on the AOL Yankee board. If I looked farther I probably could have found that they are also convinced that they'll get Tejada

hold2dibber
03-27-2003, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Yeah, I heard it on the AOL Yankee board. If I looked farther I probably could have found that they are also convinced that they'll get Tejada

Can you blame them? Can you think of a free agent in the last 4 or 5 years who the Yankmees wanted but didn't get? They wanted Giambi and got him. They wanted Mussina and got him. They wanted Rondell White (for reasons entirely beyond me) and got him. They wanted Contreras and got him. They wanted Matsui and got him. They wanted David Wells and got him. If Steinbrenner wants Colon, he probably will get him (unless the Sox sign him before he hits the market -- which I view as very unlikely). If they want Tejada they'll probably get him too; I'm just not sure that they want him.

czalgosz
03-27-2003, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Can you blame them? Can you think of a free agent in the last 4 or 5 years who the Yankmees wanted but didn't get? They wanted Giambi and got him. They wanted Mussina and got him. They wanted Rondell White (for reasons entirely beyond me) and got him. They wanted Contreras and got him. They wanted Matsui and got him. They wanted David Wells and got him. If Steinbrenner wants Colon, he probably will get him (unless the Sox sign him before he hits the market -- which I view as very unlikely). If they want Tejada they'll probably get him too; I'm just not sure that they want him.

There's very little doubt in my mind that Colon will be in a Yankee uniform next year, provided he stays healthy and effective in 2003. I just don't see JR getting into a bidding war with The Boss.

The situation for the rotation in 2004 and beyond makes me worry a little. Josh Stewart hasn't proven anything yet, and if Jon Rauch doesn't bounce back, the Sox could be in trouble if they don't sign Colon.

hold2dibber
03-27-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
There's very little doubt in my mind that Colon will be in a Yankee uniform next year, provided he stays healthy and effective in 2003. I just don't see JR getting into a bidding war with The Boss.

The situation for the rotation in 2004 and beyond makes me worry a little. Josh Stewart hasn't proven anything yet, and if Jon Rauch doesn't bounce back, the Sox could be in trouble if they don't sign Colon.

JR will absolutely not get into a bidding war with Steinbrenner. If the Sox don't tie up Colon during the season, when there's no one else bidding against them, then he won't be resigned and while likely end up in the Bronx.

Lip Man 1
03-27-2003, 03:43 PM
I agree with those who posted above on Colon. The Sox have as much chance of signing him as the Cubs do of winning the World Series.

The starting rotation is going to be a major issue next season.

Also here's two words for you to consider concerning the possible Sox pitching issue (Wright? Stewart --who?? etc..)

SHANE REYNOLDS

He was released by the Astros today in a move that ESPN called "shocking." He was listed as their #3 starter all this spring.

One final point of this whole is he or isn't he Danny Wright mess. Did you notice that the Tribune and the Sun Times had basically two different versions of this thing?

The Tribune quoted Manager Gandhi as saying Wright was sore afterwards and that he was concerned.

The Sun Times story didn't quote Manuel and basically left Wright's situation in limbo, with an "optimistic" bent, that he'd be ready. They apparently didn't get the news that Stewert was told to "get ready" that Wright was probably going on the DL.

Does anyone have any possible reasons for the dramatic differences in the "facts?"

Lip

Unregistered
03-27-2003, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The Tribune quoted Manager Gandhi as saying Wright was sore afterwards and that he was concerned.

Does anyone have any possible reasons for the dramatic differences in the "facts?"
If I'm not mistaken, Manuel said it wasn't written in stone that Wright would start the season on the DL and that Stewart would be the #5. He just told Stewart to be prepared to start on the 6th, assuming Wright wasn't ready. He followed that by saying it could be a good thing not to rush Wright in either case. This leaves it pretty open for interpretation, but to me it looks most likely that Wright is starting the year on the DL, and he'll be back around the 15th of April...

Randar68
03-27-2003, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I agree with those who posted above on Colon. The Sox have as much chance of signing him as the Cubs do of winning the World Series.

The starting rotation is going to be a major issue next season.



But hey, Lip, we should sign every veteran around just to do so. Who needs to season any of our young pitchers, while we might have the luxury, so they might be ready next season.

I bet if we just start them out of AAA they will dominate...


Which is it?


:whiner:

gosox41
03-27-2003, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i'm glad we're being cautious with wright. my thought is that it probably isn't much though.

i think stewart is a good stop gap but i wouldn't be shocked to see him follow in the footsteps of some other crafty young pitchers that lacked extreme success and hype in the minors. i'm thinking of guys like josh fogg and john snyder that were crafty guys that seemed to be figured out by the league before long. you can also see this with crafty veterans at times like steve parris or kent bottenfield when they had excellent isolated seasons. eventually though the league seems to figure them out.

What concerns ms about Stewart is he has all of 6K's in in 22 innings. The 4 BB's are impressive, but it makes for a crappy K/BB ratio.

Bob

gosox41
03-27-2003, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
There's very little doubt in my mind that Colon will be in a Yankee uniform next year, provided he stays healthy and effective in 2003. I just don't see JR getting into a bidding war with The Boss.

The situation for the rotation in 2004 and beyond makes me worry a little. Josh Stewart hasn't proven anything yet, and if Jon Rauch doesn't bounce back, the Sox could be in trouble if they don't sign Colon.


Sure looks like the Sox are going to be headed for another offseason at the whims of Kenny Williams trying to find yet another #1/2 starter to back up Buehrle. He's only 1 for 3 in having success at this. Too bad he couldn't hit like he could GM or he'd be a HOF'er.

voodoochile
03-27-2003, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Sure looks like the Sox are going to be headed for another offseason at the whims of Kenny Williams trying to find yet another #1/2 starter to back up Buehrle. He's only 1 for 3 in having success at this. Too bad he couldn't hit like he could GM or he'd be a HOF'er.

Can we at least wait until the Sox actually don't sign Colon before talking about the reprecussions? I agree it is unlikely, but right now, he is on the team and if he pitches like he can, the Sox should have a great year.

Who knows how that will influence his decision and JR's decision to re-sign him. At present I doubt it happens, but maybe a pennant would change some minds...

czalgosz
03-27-2003, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
What concerns ms about Stewart is he has all of 6K's in in 22 innings. The 4 BB's are impressive, but it makes for a crappy K/BB ratio.

Bob

Stewart's minor-league numbers don't project to him becoming anything more than a marginal big-league pitcher, but then again, neither did Buerhle's.

We'll just have to see. Hopefully if he struggles either Wright will recover quickly or Rauch will make some strides.

Please, no Shane Reynolds.

On the other thing, voodoo has a point. If the Sox do well, and they are able to translate the All-Star game into some positive PR, and attendance increases a lot, that might loosen Jerry's pursestrings. A lot depends on what happens by the All-Star break. If the Sox are playing well, and are still in contention, they should be able to get the attendance they need to make some nice moves next winter.

voodoochile
03-27-2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
On the other thing, voodoo has a point. If the Sox do well, and they are able to translate the All-Star game into some positive PR, and attendance increases a lot, that might loosen Jerry's pursestrings. A lot depends on what happens by the All-Star break. If the Sox are playing well, and are still in contention, they should be able to get the attendance they need to make some nice moves next winter.

Even more than that, if they make the playoffs and win some games or even a series or two (or three), JR would almost HAVE to shell out some cash to keep Colon and make his run. This team as it is configured is built to win in the next 3 years. If he doesn't take some chances after the team actually makes some noise in the postseason, he will be run out of town on a rail - and I personally will help see that it happens if that is the case...

hold2dibber
03-27-2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Stewart's minor-league numbers don't project to him becoming anything more than a marginal big-league pitcher, but then again, neither did Buerhle's.

I though Buehrle's minor league numbers were much better than Stewart's. IIRC, in 2000 before he was called up, Buehrle's BB/K ratios at Birmingham were absolutely phenomenal - am I misremembering (or thinking of someone else, like Biddle or Barcelo)?

On the other thing, voodoo has a point. If the Sox do well, and they are able to translate the All-Star game into some positive PR, and attendance increases a lot, that might loosen Jerry's pursestrings. A lot depends on what happens by the All-Star break. If the Sox are playing well, and are still in contention, they should be able to get the attendance they need to make some nice moves next winter. [/B]

Absolutely; OTOH, if the Sox are out of contention by the All-Star break, I would expect KW to deal Colon for some prospects.

Unregistered
03-27-2003, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
if the Sox are out of contention by the All-Star break, I would expect KW to deal Colon for some prospects. Man, it would take a TON of things to go wrong for the Sox to be so far out of contention by the all-star break that KW is trading for prospects... lets just keep our fingers crossed for that not to happen...

czalgosz
03-27-2003, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I though Buehrle's minor league numbers were much better than Stewart's. IIRC, in 2000 before he was called up, Buehrle's BB/K ratios at Birmingham were absolutely phenomenal - am I misremembering (or thinking of someone else, like Biddle or Barcelo)?

Buerhle 2000 (Birmingham) - 2.28 ERA, 68 Ks, 17 BBs in 118.2 innings.

Buerhle 1999 (Burlington) - 4.12 ERA, 91 Ks, 16 BBs in 98.2 innings.

He's always had good commands, but he never had good K rates beyond A ball. I forgot that he never threw a pitch in AAA.