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View Full Version : ESPN Radio1000 says Sox keep 3 catchers; Harris down


JRIG
03-26-2003, 11:45 AM
ESPN Radio 1000's Bruce Levine is reporting that the Sox will keep Alomar, Paul, and Olivo and send down Willie Harris to AAA.

Rios, Daubach, and Graffanino on the bench.

Pen is Koch, White, Gordon, Wunsch, Marte, Glover.

CHISOXFAN13
03-26-2003, 11:50 AM
Carrying three catchers is a waste of a roster spot. The Sox are obviously worried about losing Paul because he has no options remaining.

I don't like this move at all.

hold2dibber
03-26-2003, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by JRIG
ESPN Radio 1000's Bruce Levine is reporting that the Sox will keep Alomar, Paul, and Olivo and send down Willie Harris to AAA.

Rios, Daubach, and Graffanino on the bench.

Pen is Koch, White, Gordon, Wunsch, Marte, Glover.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. Here's why:

(1) I think Olivo would benefit from some time in AAA; why rush him?

(2) If you're going to keep Olivo on the roster, than jettison Josh Paul. I understand you may lose him, but the fact is, he isn't very good and is easily replaceable.

(3) They result of keeping 3 catchers is that Harris has to be sent down. Without Harris, there is no one on the MLB roster to back-up Rowand (who is coming off of a severe shoulder injury and a laceration on his hand) in CF.

It would have made much more sense to me to keep Harris on the 25 man roster and send down either Olivo or Paul. Also, I don't mind having only 6 guys in the pen for now, but I assume that after the first month or so he's going to want another bullpen arm (either Ginter or Stewart).

Also, the Rios signing is looking like a mistake in light of the subsequent Daubach signing. Rios is a poor man's Brian Daubach, yet he has a major league contract and is therefore unlikely to be released. If he were gone, that would open up a roster spot for Harris. Maybe they can trade him just to get rid of the contract and open up roster space for someone who is more versatile.

fuzzy_patters
03-26-2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Stupid, stupid, stupid. Here's why:

(1) I think Olivo would benefit from some time in AAA; why rush him?

(2) If you're going to keep Olivo on the roster, than jettison Josh Paul. I understand you may lose him, but the fact is, he isn't very good and is easily replaceable.

(3) They result of keeping 3 catchers is that Harris has to be sent down. Without Harris, there is no one on the MLB roster to back-up Rowand (who is coming off of a severe shoulder injury and a laceration on his hand) in CF.

It would have made much more sense to me to keep Harris on the 25 man roster and send down either Olivo or Paul. Also, I don't mind having only 6 guys in the pen for now, but I assume that after the first month or so he's going to want another bullpen arm (either Ginter or Stewart).

Also, the Rios signing is looking like a mistake in light of the subsequent Daubach signing. Rios is a poor man's Brian Daubach, yet he has a major league contract and is therefore unlikely to be released. If he were gone, that would open up a roster spot for Harris. Maybe they can trade him just to get rid of the contract and open up roster space for someone who is more versatile.

I don't think the back-up center field situation is an issue. Ordonez and Valentin both have major league experience in center field. If Rowand were to get hurt, I'm assuming one of those two would play center for a day. The Sox would then place Rowand on the DL allowing them to call up Harris or Borchard for the next day's game. It's really not that big of a deal.

Fridaythe13thJason
03-26-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
I don't think the back-up center field situation is an issue. Ordonez and Valentin both have major league experience in center field. If Rowand were to get hurt, I'm assuming one of those two would play center for a day. The Sox would then place Rowand on the DL allowing them to call up Harris or Borchard for the next day's game. It's really not that big of a deal.

No no no to Jose Valentin playing any other positions. We've gone through this before. I can understand it being okay for a day, but more than that, eh.

Also, does this mean that Aaron Rowand, maybe the least impressive position player starter, is going to play every single day? That seems like a problem to me. I would think he would get more days off than anyone (sans the catchers)

Josh Paul can probably play center.

gosox41
03-26-2003, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
ESPN Radio 1000's Bruce Levine is reporting that the Sox will keep Alomar, Paul, and Olivo and send down Willie Harris to AAA.

Rios, Daubach, and Graffanino on the bench.

Pen is Koch, White, Gordon, Wunsch, Marte, Glover.

Looks like another stellar move made by White Sox managment.

This is stupid. How is Olivo going to develop being a third string catcher? What purpose does Josh Paul serve?

Bob


:jerry

I already got my hammer out. With the roster set up this way, I have plent of ways to smash...I mean tinker with the team.

czalgosz
03-26-2003, 12:16 PM
That's bad. I don't see how having Olivo sit on the bench 4 out of every 5 games is going to help his progress. Keeping 3 catchers is never a particularly good idea. Now we're in the situation where we're hoping that Alomar goes down to injury sooner rather than later, just to free up a roster spot. I have been a KW supporter, but I have to put the blame squarely on his shoulders for this one.

Miguel Olivo simply shouldn't be a backup. If he's ready to play in the Majors, it should be as the starter. If not, he should be starting for Charlotte.

And as for the situation in center, Rios can play there as well (assuming he makes the team), just not well.

hold2dibber
03-26-2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
I don't think the back-up center field situation is an issue. Ordonez and Valentin both have major league experience in center field. If Rowand were to get hurt, I'm assuming one of those two would play center for a day. The Sox would then place Rowand on the DL allowing them to call up Harris or Borchard for the next day's game. It's really not that big of a deal.

The problem isn't injuries, its the fact that he has to play every single day. I suppose the Sox could rest him here and there by playing Ordonez or Valentin there, but those are pretty lousy options defensively (as is Rios). Harris, obviously, is a better choice.

Also, I doubt that the Sox plan on playing Olivo only once every 4 or 5 days. My guess is that he'll split time with Alomar pretty evenly, with Paul getting only an occasional start, and being used as a pinch runner and (gasp) 6th outfielder. If Olivo isn't startingat least 3-4 times per week, I'll be incensed.

Randar68
03-26-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Miguel Olivo simply shouldn't be a backup. If he's ready to play in the Majors, it should be as the starter. If not, he should be starting for Charlotte.

1) Who says Olivo is the third string instead of Josh. If Josh were really the #2 catcher, they would have put Olivo in AAA. OTOH, Paul has no more options...

2) If Olivo is the catcher of the future, how does it hurt to have him catching bullpen sessions and occassional games as he learns the pitching staff and gets acclimated to the major leagues?

I agree it would be better to have him getting at-bats with the AAA team, but as far as his behind the plate skills, this is nothing but a positive IMO.

voodoochile
03-26-2003, 12:24 PM
It's a numbers move. Paul can't be sent down and they want to play Olivo as the backup catcher. If he fails in the role, they can always send him down a month from now.

I think KW is hoping to trade him, but don't see many takers on the horizon, knowing he is out of options...

czalgosz
03-26-2003, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
1) Who says Olivo is the third string instead of Josh. If Josh were really the #2 catcher, they would have put Olivo in AAA. OTOH, Paul has no more options...

2) If Olivo is the catcher of the future, how does it hurt to have him catching bullpen sessions and occassional games as he learns the pitching staff and gets acclimated to the major leagues?

I agree it would be better to have him getting at-bats with the AAA team, but as far as his behind the plate skills, this is nothing but a positive IMO.

The scenario you just came up with would be fine, I guess, but he still isn't a polished big-league hitter. I think he would benefit by gteting more AAA AB's.

The main reason this sucks is that the Sox are forced to keep a worthless Josh Paul hanging around just for when Alomar goes down, because until then, he's just using up oxygen.

And that's in a best-case scenario. My immediate feeling was that because Manuel seems to have some sort of irrational attachment to Paul that he would be ahead of Olivo on the depth chart.

I agree that having Olivo catch half the games would be the rational thing, but remember who we're talking about here.

:jerry

This move gives me a lot more flexibility when it comes to filling out the lineup card every day. Then I can take more naps!

PaleHoseGeorge
03-26-2003, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
...I think KW is hoping to trade him, but don't see many takers on the horizon, knowing he is out of options...

I was thinking the same thing. I'm hoping (God, I'm hoping!) that KW is simply trying to fool some chump GM into trading for Josh Paul before the season starts. You can usually count on either Milwaukee or Baltimore to do something really stupid. Do either of them need a versatile catcher? :smile:

:jerry
"Giving me three catchers to work into the lineup is an invitation to disaster."

southpaw40
03-26-2003, 12:39 PM
I suggest there might be a trade of some sort in the works. I don't think the Sox intend to carry three catchers the entire season. If I reall, JM stated earlier that he intended to wait until the games in Houston (which will be this weekend) to decide the catcher situation.

rmusacch
03-26-2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
ESPN Radio 1000's Bruce Levine is reporting that the Sox will keep Alomar, Paul, and Olivo and send down Willie Harris to AAA.

Rios, Daubach, and Graffanino on the bench.

Pen is Koch, White, Gordon, Wunsch, Marte, Glover.

Let's hope Levine is wrong on this. Maybe they are going to keep Alomar as a coach.

rmusacch
03-26-2003, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
ESPN Radio 1000's Bruce Levine is reporting that the Sox will keep Alomar, Paul, and Olivo and send down Willie Harris to AAA.

Rios, Daubach, and Graffanino on the bench.

Pen is Koch, White, Gordon, Wunsch, Marte, Glover.

Rotoworld.com seems to indicate that Miles has won a job on this team.

czalgosz
03-26-2003, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch
Rotoworld.com seems to indicate that Miles has won a job on this team.


Nooooo!!!!

Seriously, that would be even worse than carrying three catchers. Who would even go to make room for Miles? Rios?

voodoochile
03-26-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Nooooo!!!!

Seriously, that would be even worse than carrying three catchers. Who would even go to make room for Miles? Rios?

Maybe someone is going to start the season on the DL - Graff?

hold2dibber
03-26-2003, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Nooooo!!!!

Seriously, that would be even worse than carrying three catchers. Who would even go to make room for Miles? Rios?

I'd trust Bruce Levine before I trusted Rotoworld.com.

rmusacch
03-26-2003, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Nooooo!!!!

Seriously, that would be even worse than carrying three catchers. Who would even go to make room for Miles? Rios?

It said that it appears Miles has taken Harris's job. I would think that one catcher would get cut, go down.

MRKARNO
03-26-2003, 04:44 PM
Honestly. we should trade Josh Paul for a pitching prospect. We dont need much help at any position besides Catcher. It might just be our weak offensive position this year and we'll have to wait for Olivo to develop. The other option is to trade for a catcher for this year and keep olivo and sandy, but the idea is to carry only 2 catchers. The Sox are used to carrying three catchers as they had Johnson, Paul and another catcher on the team for a 1-2 year stretch (I'm pretty sure, could have been Alomar for one of those years).

Pete_SSAC
03-26-2003, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
I don't think the back-up center field situation is an issue. Ordonez and Valentin both have major league experience in center field.

Don't ever, EVER say that again!

ANyway, get rid of Paul, he's a waste. He's no good at any postion really. We gave him enough time. Let olivo have a shot, but, carrying 3 catchers is dumb dumb dumb and bad.

- Pete

LuvSox
03-26-2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Pete_SSAC
Don't ever, EVER say that again!

ANyway, get rid of Paul, he's a waste. He's no good at any postion really. We gave him enough time. Let olivo have a shot, but, carrying 3 catchers is dumb dumb dumb and bad.

- Pete Wasn't it Sandy who said, after being traded to Colorado, "How many chances does Josh Paul get?"

Pete_SSAC
03-26-2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Honestly. we should trade Josh Paul for a pitching prospect.

Trouble is, I think all we can get for Paul is a 31 year old pitcher in Rookie Ball.

- Pete

czalgosz
03-26-2003, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Honestly. we should trade Josh Paul for a pitching prospect.

Josh Paul has no trade value in today's market. If KW was really brilliant, he might be able to get a journeyman like Steve Adkins or Mike Porzio.

gosox41
03-26-2003, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
It's a numbers move. Paul can't be sent down and they want to play Olivo as the backup catcher. If he fails in the role, they can always send him down a month from now.

I think KW is hoping to trade him, but don't see many takers on the horizon, knowing he is out of options...

If Paul has no value, just release him. He's not Mike Piazza. I don't understand why they don't just dump him.

Bob

LuvSox
03-26-2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Josh Paul has no trade value in today's market. If KW was really brilliant, he might be able to get a journeyman like Steve Adkins or Mike Porzio. KW should look for a sucker, like the Cubbies

hold2dibber
03-26-2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by Pete_SSAC
Trouble is, I think all we can get for Paul is a 31 year old pitcher in Rookie Ball.

- Pete

I'd do it in a second! Trade him for Ted Williams' 33 year old kid playing for the Schaumberg Flyers. Whatever. He's just taking up roster space now. What's the point?

dougs78
03-26-2003, 05:28 PM
Paul has no trade value that simply means no one will give anything up for him. IMO, it also means that no one will claim him if he gets sent down and put on waivers. There may be a very fine line where someone would take him for free, but give nothing for him, but if thats really the case then are we really going to be in a worse situation if he gets claimed?

Clearly, if (oops, i mean WHEN) Sandy gets hurt in the first month then we can always let Burke play or find another catcher somewhere for cheap. As you all are saying, the whole thing just seems like a bizarre waste of time and brain power.

PaleHoseGeorge
03-26-2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by dougs78
Paul has no trade value that simply means no one will give anything up for him. IMO, it also means that no one will claim him if he gets sent down and put on waivers. There may be a very fine line where someone would take him for free, but give nothing for him, but if thats really the case then are we really going to be in a worse situation if he gets claimed?

Clearly, if (oops, i mean WHEN) Sandy gets hurt in the first month then we can always let Burke play or find another catcher somewhere for cheap. As you all are saying, the whole thing just seems like a bizarre waste of time and brain power.

Like you said, there might be someone dumb enough to give us something of marginal value. That's the only good reason not to cut Paul right now. What we need right now is an all-day sucker to take Paul off our hands.

Milwaukee is a good place to look. :smile:

:ritchie
"Hey skip, have you considered getting that Paul kid from the Sox? My ERA in Chicago was 0.001 better with Josh behind the plate!

:hitless
"His defensive percentage isn't up to my stellar level, but he carries some heavy lumber by Royce Clayton standards."

TheBigHurt
03-26-2003, 07:06 PM
So much for my wish of Harris leading off

BE GOOD

duke of dorwood
03-26-2003, 09:27 PM
Harris leading off? How many drag bunts can a guy do every night? He's better off gone.

MarkEdward
03-26-2003, 10:21 PM
So who's going to start at second base for the Knights? Will Hummell play second, with Harris playing short (or maybe the other way around)? Maybe Harris will start in center, but I don't see that happening.

Also, who's going to be the starting catcher in Charlotte, Burke or Acevas?

bc2k
03-26-2003, 10:29 PM
One benefit of signing Alomar was to mentor Olivo. Olivo cannot be mentored by him and Bruce Kimm while in Charlotte. So I agree with Alomar and Olivo on the team. I see the thinking behind keeping Paul, but he MUST bring something new to the team. I remember hearing a year ago that Graffaninose was our emergency catcher, perhaps Paul could be our emergency option in center.

I don't see a huge downside with this move. Harris sucks, he wasn't going to help this team.

I've read opinions how Olivo should be playing everyday in AAA because he needs seasoning. In my opinion, Harris needs seasoning. Most agree that Josh Paul has hit his ceiling while Harris has not. We can limit Paul's playing time, letting him rot until kneeded (sorry, I know that's bad, couldn't help it), and let Harris play in AAA while nearing his ceiling.

Having Paul on the roster only hurts us if a "what if?" happens. I'd rather deal with the what ifs when they happen.

Daver
03-26-2003, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
So who's going to start at second base for the Knights? Will Hummell play second, with Harris playing short (or maybe the other way around)? Maybe Harris will start in center, but I don't see that happening.

Also, who's going to be the starting catcher in Charlotte, Burke or Acevas? Hummel will go back to SS,with Harris and Miles splitting time at second I would guess.

Charlotte has used revolving catchers for the last three years,I don't see that changing now,so I would assume they would split time,I have my doubts about either one of them ever becoming an MLB catcher on an everyday basis anyway.

Daver
03-26-2003, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
perhaps Paul could be our emergency option in center.



Jesus,he can hardly catch a ball pitched at him andf you want him roaming around in CF?

(Looking for my stupid link)

Jerry_Manuel
03-26-2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by daver
Jesus,he can hardly catch a ball pitched at him andf you want him roaming around in CF?

(Looking for my stupid link)

Daver, do you recall when Manuel had Paul in LF for a few games in 2001? Brutal. That's just on the corner, I can't even imagine him in CF.

34 Inch Stick
03-27-2003, 12:04 PM
I'm trying to figure out the logic on three catchers, so here goes.

Paul was not going to make the roster. KW and JM both like Paul and wanted to make sure he would not get taken via waivers. They are letting everybody set their rosters and feel comfortable with their decisions. Then about two weeks into the season they will try to send Paul down. He will breeze through waivers as everyone is still busy evaluating their roster decisions. Paul will be able to join AAA within two weeks of the season.

Anyone like the reasoning?

Iwritecode
03-27-2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
I'm trying to figure out the logic on three catchers, so here goes.

Paul was not going to make the roster. KW and JM both like Paul and wanted to make sure he would not get taken via waivers. They are letting everybody set their rosters and feel comfortable with their decisions. Then about two weeks into the season they will try to send Paul down. He will breeze through waivers as everyone is still busy evaluating their roster decisions. Paul will be able to join AAA within two weeks of the season.

Anyone like the reasoning?

I'm really interested to see how they are going to trim the roster down to 2 catchers. I'm not completely convinced that they'll be able to slip Paul through waivers. As bad as he is there is probably some team out there that will pick him up for basically nothing. The Sox are going to need him when (not if) Sandy goes on the DL. I'm figuring they are keeping Olivo around so he can get some experience learning the big league hitters and pitchers and also get some mentoring from Sandy while he's still around. Those are things he can't do in the minors.