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DrCrawdad
03-25-2003, 12:49 PM
Did anyone hear about the three way trade that apparently Bruce Levine reported this morning involving the Expos/Cubs/Sox?

Rumour Mill Thread Number One... (http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-cubs&msg=35483.1&ctx=0)

Rumour Mill Thread Number Two... (http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-cubs&msg=35486.1&ctx=0)

Pete_SSAC
03-25-2003, 12:52 PM
From, the Cubs Forum? *shakes head* For shame... for shame...

- Pete

DrCrawdad
03-25-2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Pete_SSAC
From, the Cubs Forum? *shakes head* For shame... for shame...

- Pete

The rumour is interesting though. Basically as far as the Sox end of it, it would be Damian Miller for Graffanino. I'd guess that would be buh-bye Josh Paul and more seasoning for Olivo.

KW pulled off a successful three-way with the Colon deal. Let's hope he's not obsessed with three-way deals now. I can't help but think KW would end up the odd man out.

I post over there on occasion, although I generally try to keep it in the closet.

Pete_SSAC
03-25-2003, 01:00 PM
Yeah, I agree that we need a catcher. Olivo just isn't living up to expectations, and Paul...is... crap. Sandy's knees probably won't hold out forvver, so it's best we pick up another catcher, to back up Sandy, have Olivo getting regular time down in AAA, and send Paul packing where he can bring his wonderful baserunning to another team.

I wonder if the Cubs will take Miller straight up for Paul? ;)

- Pete

hold2dibber
03-25-2003, 01:04 PM
Either Miller or Barrett would be a big upgrade at C for the Sox. I don't know enough about Bako to opine on his value, but IIRC he is at least good defensively (something Josh Paul is not).

Unregistered
03-25-2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by Pete_SSAC
Olivo just isn't living up to expectations Based on what? His .180 SPRING TRAINING BA? Gee Pete, think we should give the kid a little more than 50 Big League AB's before we release him?

czalgosz
03-25-2003, 01:05 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. The part of the rumor that bothers me is the "high prospect" part. I don't want the Sox to sacrifice any part of the future when Olivo is just about ready to take over the position. The Sox farm system is thin enough as it is.

Pete_SSAC
03-25-2003, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered
Based on what? His .180 SPRING TRAINING BA? Gee Pete, think we should give the kid a little more than 50 Big League AB's before we release him?

What prt did I say that we should release Olivo? But, you must admit that we EXPECTED him to be a Major Leauge calibar starting catcher, and .180 spring is not what was expected. I'm not saying give up, just.. he needs mor etime in the oven.

- Pete

siugrad25
03-25-2003, 01:26 PM
I think most of us are in agreement that Olivio is the catcher of the future. So again, what's the harm of sending him down to AAA to start the season? IF, the Sox pulled off a trade for Miller or Barrett (not Bako) don't you think that new catcher could play catch the majority of the games along with Sandy? And couldn't that leave the door right open for Olivio if Mr. Alomar's knees do crumble toward the pennant push? I know I would feel much better if a Miller or Barrett was behind the dish instead of an aging Alomar come October (fingers crossed).

bc2k
03-25-2003, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Either Miller or Barrett would be a big upgrade at C for the Sox. I don't know enough about Bako to opine on his value, but IIRC he is at least good defensively (something Josh Paul is not).

From Today's Tribune, back page: Paul Bako is with his sixth organization since 1998, and will serve as backup catcher and left-handed bat off the bench. Primarily a defensive catcher, he has hit .212 and .235 the last two seasons.


I admit I have never seen Bako play and know nothing about him, but the Tribune's description of him seems to fill what the Sox need. Bako sounds good enough to split time with Sandy, but not good enough where he'll take a position from a ready Olivo.

Doing some minor research, I've found that Bako hit .245 off righties last year with 19 walks and 38 strikeouts in 204 at bats. I don't foresee him costing much and will not keep Olivo from joining the Sox when he is declared "ready."

hold2dibber
03-25-2003, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
From Today's Tribune, back page: Paul Bako is with his sixth organization since 1998, and will serve as backup catcher and left-handed bat off the bench. Primarily a defensive catcher, he has hit .212 and .235 the last two seasons.


I admit I have never seen Bako play and know nothing about him, but the Tribune's description of him seems to fill what the Sox need. Bako sounds good enough to split time with Sandy, but not good enough where he'll take a position from a ready Olivo.

Doing some minor research, I've found that Bako hit .245 off righties last year with 19 walks and 38 strikeouts in 204 at bats. I don't foresee him costing much and will not keep Olivo from joining the Sox when he is declared "ready."

Miller or Barrett would be better, but in light of the fact that Olivo is the future, I'm guessing that if the Sox end up as part of this deal, Bako is the guy they get. I like the fact that he hits left handed as well.

SoxxoS
03-25-2003, 02:15 PM
If Kenny would just read WSI, I posed a thread "This guy would be a good pick-up" and the guy was Damien Miller. I posted that in early January when he was a free agent.

You see Kenny, when you TRADE for a guy, you have to give something up. If you SIGN a guy from free agency, that's all you have to do is pay his salary. Instead of having to get rid of Graffy, like the rumor states, you could have just signed him in January and not have to give up anything.

I know you just love trading, but pickup up free-agents isn't half bad, either.

TheBigHurt
03-25-2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
If Kenny would just read WSI, I posed a thread "This guy would be a good pick-up" and the guy was Damien Miller. I posted that in early January when he was a free agent.

You see Kenny, when you TRADE for a guy, you have to give something up. If you SIGN a guy from free agency, that's all you have to do is pay his salary. Instead of having to get rid of Graffy, like the rumor states, you could have just signed him in January and not have to give up anything.

I know you just love trading, but pickup up free-agents isn't half bad, either.

WELL WHEN REINY IS THE OWNER......

hold2dibber
03-25-2003, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
If Kenny would just read WSI, I posed a thread "This guy would be a good pick-up" and the guy was Damien Miller. I posted that in early January when he was a free agent.

You see Kenny, when you TRADE for a guy, you have to give something up. If you SIGN a guy from free agency, that's all you have to do is pay his salary. Instead of having to get rid of Graffy, like the rumor states, you could have just signed him in January and not have to give up anything.

I know you just love trading, but pickup up free-agents isn't half bad, either.

(1) Miller was not a free agent this offseason. The Cubs acquired him via trade (for minor league players David Noyce and Gary Johnson), they didn't sign him as a free agent.

(2) Neither of the threads linked above suggest that the Levine reported that Graffinino would be the player the Sox give up. That was suggested by one of the posters as someone they'd want in return for Miller from the Sox. So there is no reason to think that Graffy would actually be part of the rumored deal. If I read it correctly, the Sox would be dealing a minor leaguer(s).

duke of dorwood
03-25-2003, 02:57 PM
Bako aka:

:MJ

SoxxoS
03-25-2003, 03:03 PM
Oops. My original thread was titled "Damien Miller would be a good pickup. I think I remeber reading he could be acquired for next to nothing from the D'Backs (which, in fact, happened.)


My original thread (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15317)

bc2k
03-25-2003, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
Bako aka:

:MJ

I agree. And MJ knew our pitchers, and our pitchers knew him.

WhiteSoxWinner
03-25-2003, 04:24 PM
I did hear this on AM 1000 this morning, too. I was like, huh? It would depend on what we had to trade for one of those catchers. I wouldn't mind Miller, but Bako? I don't know much about him, but if the Brewers couldn't use him...

gosox41
03-25-2003, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Did anyone hear about the three way trade that apparently Bruce Levine reported this morning involving the Expos/Cubs/Sox?

Rumour Mill Thread Number One... (http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-cubs&msg=35483.1&ctx=0)

Rumour Mill Thread Number Two... (http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-cubs&msg=35486.1&ctx=0)

I would not trade Graffanino for Damian Miller but would give up a bucket of crap for Paul Bako.

Niether of the Cubs catchers excites me. Why not just make Olivo the back up and let him start for the #3-5 starters? It's dumb to give up a top pitching prospect for a catcher that isn't that good. It's also hurts the Sox depth to trade Graffanino.

Bob

Chisoxfn
03-25-2003, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Miller or Barrett would be better, but in light of the fact that Olivo is the future, I'm guessing that if the Sox end up as part of this deal, Bako is the guy they get. I like the fact that he hits left handed as well.

I don't think Miller was a free agent this year. The Cubs traded pretty much nothing for him if I recall.

Chisoxfn
03-25-2003, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
I did hear this on AM 1000 this morning, too. I was like, huh? It would depend on what we had to trade for one of those catchers. I wouldn't mind Miller, but Bako? I don't know much about him, but if the Brewers couldn't use him...

I'd give the Cubs Dellaero or something for Miller and if it was Bako, I'd give them some no one.

Brian26
03-25-2003, 10:41 PM
I would never trade Tony G. to the Scrubs for that crap.

34 Inch Stick
03-26-2003, 08:38 AM
We cannot assume that Olivo is going to be in the majors this year. He has not earned a major league job this spring. He has also had only one above average hitting year and that was in AA. Looking blindly at those facts, I think we would all say that he should spend a significant amount of time in AAA this year. The Sox should not plan on him making an impact this season.

The good thing is his defense is there. He could come into the league now and be Paul Bako, Mark Johnson or the rest of the pile of feces that plants itself behind the plate now as "defensive specialists". However, we are hoping to groom a star. All precautions should be taken to make this guy what we think he can become. If he is that good, sending him to the minors extends his FA date as well.

We know Alomar is going to break down (not if, only when). That leaves us Paul. The prudent thing to do is get some low end catching help before the season starts. We may not need a trade. This may be able to be done via waiver wire this week.