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View Full Version : Ordonez in CF? Any Chance?


Brian26
03-20-2003, 10:24 AM
I'm trying to figure out a way to get Daubach's bat into the everyday lineup without sacrificing Lee in LF, Frank at DH, or Konerko at 1B. Mags is a decent outfielder in RF, but how much of a liability would he be in CF? It'd be nice to trade Rowand's bat for Daubach's in the everyday lineup. Put Mags in CF and Daubach in RF.

Jimenez 2B
Valentin SS
Ordonez CF
Thomas DH
Konerko 1B
Daubach RF
Lee LF
Crede 3B
Alomar C

That's an intimidating lineup.

moochpuppy
03-20-2003, 10:27 AM
There is no way that would happen. That outfield would be way too slow.

Bobby Thigpen
03-20-2003, 10:33 AM
Maggs is a very good right fielder, but as a center fielder, I think the Valentine experiment was a better idea than putting Maggs out there. He's not fast enough, and while it is another outfield spot, it would be incredibly hard for him to learn it well enough to play there sufficiently by March 31. Valentine had a whole offseason and spring to do it and couldn't. Besides we don't want to throw off Maggs' offense since he is the Sox' most reliable offensive weapon.

That lineup looks great on paper, but about the only place it would work out well would be in a video game.

hold2dibber
03-20-2003, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
I'm trying to figure out a way to get Daubach's bat into the everyday lineup without sacrificing Lee in LF, Frank at DH, or Konerko at 1B. Mags is a decent outfielder in RF, but how much of a liability would he be in CF? It'd be nice to trade Rowand's bat for Daubach's in the everyday lineup. Put Mags in CF and Daubach in RF.

Jimenez 2B
Valentin SS
Ordonez CF
Thomas DH
Konerko 1B
Daubach RF
Lee LF
Crede 3B
Alomar C

That's an intimidating lineup.

I agree with the others - although I also would like to see Daubach playing as much as possible, with that outfield, balls would be dropping in the gaps all game long.

The way to get Daubach's bat into the lineup is to have him spell Lee, Maggs, Frank and PK on a regular basis. If he gets at least 15 starts in place of each of those guys, he's starting 60 games, keeping his sharpness, and those guys are better rested and healthy. That alone will get him in the starting lineup at least 2 times per week and will get him over 200 ABs. And he should be used to pinch hit for Crede, Rowand, Graffinino, Olivo, Alomar or even Lee on a regular basis; just to keep him fresh and get him ABs, I would pinch hit him for one of those guys on an almost nightly basis when a righthanded pitcher is in the game in the 6th inning or later. I hope Manuel can find a way to get him at least 300 ABs this year, if not more.

OfficerKarkovice
03-20-2003, 10:55 AM
I agree that we shouldn't do it...but if Lance Berkman can patrol center with that damn hill and pole in the OF then I think Maggs could certainly adjust. I don't think it would work with Lee and Daubach on each side of him however.

RKMeibalane
03-20-2003, 11:00 AM
Let's try to avoid giving Jerry Manuel any more ideas.

:jerry

*TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER*

maurice
03-20-2003, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
The way to get Daubach's bat into the lineup is to have him spell Lee, Maggs, Frank and PK on a regular basis. If he gets at least 15 starts in place of each of those guys, he's starting 60 games, keeping his sharpness, and those guys are better rested and healthy.

I agree with your general point, but I doubt that JM will allow Daubach to replace Maggs and Konerko in the starting lineup 15 times each. That leaves only 147 starts for Maggs and possibly even fewer for Konerko (if Frank is hitting and plays some 1B during interleague games). Also, Rios and especially Borchard probably will get a number of starts in LF and RF this season.

Daubach should see plenty of action as a pinch hitter (though JM doesn't like to PH much). However, barring injury or trade, I just don't see Daubach getting 200 ABs this year.

RKMeibalane
03-20-2003, 12:17 PM
Daubach was brought in to replace Jeff Liefer. I don't think he'll get more than 250 at-bats this season. To be honest, I'm not sure he needs that many at-bats in order to stay sharp. During the WGN telecast last Saturday, Hawk stressed that Daubach has a short, compact swing; therefore, it shouldn't take much for him to get his timing back. Liefer, on the other hand, has a long swing, which is much more difficult to time correctly. This is the main reason why Liefer struggled last season. He would be better off as an everday player, but I don't think he's good enough to start on most teams. Liefer is caught in between a rock and hard place.

hold2dibber
03-20-2003, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by maurice
I agree with your general point, but I doubt that JM will allow Daubach to replace Maggs and Konerko in the starting lineup 15 times each. That leaves only 147 starts for Maggs and possibly even fewer for Konerko (if Frank is hitting and plays some 1B during interleague games). Also, Rios and especially Borchard probably will get a number of starts in LF and RF this season.

Daubach should see plenty of action as a pinch hitter (though JM doesn't like to PH much). However, barring injury or trade, I just don't see Daubach getting 200 ABs this year.

Historically, Daubach's production has been pretty close to CLee's and PK's, so I have no problem with him taking ABs away from those guys, particularly since it will keep his bat fresh and help to keep those guys healthy (see PK's 2nd half foot injury and related performance drop-off last year for an example of how important it is to keep him healthy). I agree that taking away at-bats from Maggs isn't a great idea, but IIRC, until last year Maggs had historically finished poorly - he seemed to run out of gas towards the end of the year. I'd like to keep him fresh, too. So maybe give Daubach 18 of CLee's starts, 18 of PK's starts, 10 of Maggs' starts and 12 of Frank's starts.

I don't care if Rios gets starts - I wish they hadn't signed him at all. And I would expect that any time Borchard sees in Chicago will be in CF.

maurice
03-20-2003, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Historically, Daubach's production has been pretty close to CLee's and PK's, so I have no problem with him taking ABs away from those guys . . . . I don't care if Rios gets starts - I wish they hadn't signed him at all. And I would expect that any time Borchard sees in Chicago will be in CF.

Like I said, I generally agree with you. I just don't see JM following through, given his history. Unless Rios is cut soon (doesn't seem likely), JM will give him at least a couple of starts in LF and RF. JM started Borchard at the corners late last year, so there's a good chance he'll do it again this year. These starts (unfortunately) will come at Daubach's expense.

Remember, we're talking about a guy who has played Tony Graffanino and Josh Paul as corner outfielders "to keep them sharp," or something.

Brian26
03-20-2003, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
During the WGN telecast last Saturday, Hawk stressed that Daubach has a short, compact swing; therefore, it shouldn't take much for him to get his timing back. Liefer, on the other hand, has a long swing, which is much more difficult to time correctly.

Hawk rules.

:hawk

"You're dadgum right, I do!"

kermittheefrog
03-20-2003, 01:35 PM
I think Maggs in center would be a big injury risk. He'd have to cover more ground and adjust to a new position he hasn't played much of his career. It's also a position that is clearly a stretch for him defensively. Look at what happened to Phil Nevin trying to move around the diamond.

RichH55
03-20-2003, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I think Maggs in center would be a big injury risk. He'd have to cover more ground and adjust to a new position he hasn't played much of his career. It's also a position that is clearly a stretch for him defensively. Look at what happened to Phil Nevin trying to move around the diamond.


If Rowand doesnt come out of the gate at least decently, I think Mags will see a little time in center.....

Daver
03-20-2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
If Rowand doesnt come out of the gate at least decently, I think Mags will see a little time in center.....

That would be a HUGE mistake......

hold2dibber
03-20-2003, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Daubach was brought in to replace Jeff Liefer. I don't think he'll get more than 250 at-bats this season. To be honest, I'm not sure he needs that many at-bats in order to stay sharp. During the WGN telecast last Saturday, Hawk stressed that Daubach has a short, compact swing; therefore, it shouldn't take much for him to get his timing back. Liefer, on the other hand, has a long swing, which is much more difficult to time correctly. This is the main reason why Liefer struggled last season. He would be better off as an everday player, but I don't think he's good enough to start on most teams. Liefer is caught in between a rock and hard place.

My Red Sox-fan friends tell me that Daubach is the streakiest hitter they've ever seen. While playing regularly, he'll go a few weeks where he is simply atrocious, then he'll go 14-for-24 with 5 HRs the next week. Absolute feast of famine. That's one of the things that worries me about only giving him sporadic playing time; he won't be able to get into a groove.

czalgosz
03-20-2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
If Rowand doesnt come out of the gate at least decently, I think Mags will see a little time in center.....

I'd rather see Rowand struggle at the plate than see Ordonez in center. (1) The Sox outfield defense is not great as it is; (2) The Sox have enough offense to carry a weak-hitting Rowand. Scoring runs isn't going to be a problem.

Ideally, of course, I'd like to see someone better than Rowand in center, but the Sox offense isn't bad enough to sacrifice defense in center.

Daver
03-20-2003, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


Ideally, of course, I'd like to see someone better than Rowand in center, but the Sox offense isn't bad enough to sacrifice defense in center.

Rowand ISa sacrifice to defense in center.......

czalgosz
03-20-2003, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by daver
Rowand ISa sacrifice to defense in center.......

He's better than Ordonez would be.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Rowand fan, and I'm still open to the idea of Borchard taking over in center, but Ordonez in center isn't the answer, no matter what. I'd rather see Willie Harris.

JUGGERNAUT
03-20-2003, 07:37 PM
there on occasion. It says he can play 1B, 3B, RF, LF, & DH. Maybe 10 starts per position. That should get him 200ab.