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southpaw40
03-19-2003, 08:08 PM
Has anyone noticed Matt Ginter's recent pitching lines? Seems like he is throwing the ball as well as anybody out of the bullpen. He was an early round draft pick a couple of years ago, so he obviously has talent. Does he have the ability to take the Gary Glover spot (long relief), or is he best suited for short outings?
He might be another example of a pitcher rushed to the bigs before he was ready, and is just now getting it. I say don't give up on him yet. What do you think?

Daver
03-19-2003, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by southpaw40
Has anyone noticed Matt Ginter's recent pitching lines? Seems like he is throwing the ball as well as anybody out of the bullpen. He was an early round draft pick a couple of years ago, so he obviously has talent. Does he have the ability to take the Gary Glover spot (long relief), or is he best suited for short outings?
He might be another example of a pitcher rushed to the bigs before he was ready, and is just now getting it. I say don't give up on him yet. What do you think?

Ginter has some value in the pen,and would have benefited from being in the minors for a couple more years as a starter IMO.

The fact that he is working directly with Don Cooper again says a lot to his recent improvement as well.

doublem23
03-19-2003, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by southpaw40
Has anyone noticed Matt Ginter's recent pitching lines? Seems like he is throwing the ball as well as anybody out of the bullpen. He was an early round draft pick a couple of years ago, so he obviously has talent. Does he have the ability to take the Gary Glover spot (long relief), or is he best suited for short outings?
He might be another example of a pitcher rushed to the bigs before he was ready, and is just now getting it. I say don't give up on him yet. What do you think?

Ginter scares me, but I may be wrong (as I am a lot). I'd say, though, send him to AAA and let's see if he's not just hot right now. If he's still wheelin' and dealin' in Charlotte, why the hell not? Can never have too good a bullpen. Well, I suppose if they never, ever gave up a run, but I doubt that will happen this year.

delben91
03-19-2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by daver

The fact that he is working directly with Don Cooper again says a lot to his recent improvement as well.

Amazing how many pitchers seem to be performing better under Cooper than under Nardi.

(captain obvious strikes again!)

DrCrawdad
03-19-2003, 09:34 PM
I'd like to see Ginter get a shot at starting. Although that probably won't happen. No doubt Ginter will be dealt. Then Ginter will start performing for some other team.

Joel Perez
03-19-2003, 09:51 PM
Ginter has been swinging from starting and relieving since his minor league days.

He's only 25, so he still has time to establish himself in the starting rotation should someone falters.

But from what I've heard, his slider is his out pitch, so he's resourceful in either situation. I hope he gets some spot starts this year.

kermittheefrog
03-19-2003, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
I'd like to see Ginter get a shot at starting. Although that probably won't happen. No doubt Ginter will be dealt. Then Ginter will start performing for some other team.

I'd like to see Ginter as a starter in AAA. Last year he really made progress but was hammered by lefties.

RichH55
03-20-2003, 02:28 AM
I've always been a Ginter fan myself....hoping he gets a shot to be a viable part of the organization

RichH55
03-20-2003, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
I'd like to see Ginter get a shot at starting. Although that probably won't happen. No doubt Ginter will be dealt. Then Ginter will start performing for some other team.


He can become a mediocre on again, off again veteran whose main virtue is that he has never had arm problems and then we can trade C. Lee for him

hold2dibber
03-20-2003, 08:20 AM
Ginter has been great this spring and there was a looonnnggg stretch last year when he was awesome (before faltering towards the end of the year). I think he has the potential to be a valuable reliever (the organization seems to believe his future is in the pen, not in the rotation). But I don't see how he makes the team until or unless they carry 7 guys in the pen (assuming that Koch, Marte, Gordon, White, Glover and Wunsch have all made the team ahead of him).

34 Inch Stick
03-20-2003, 08:21 AM
The same thing happened to Seattle's pitchers immediately after Nardi left. I don't know why this guy still has a job in the organizaiton.

duke of dorwood
03-20-2003, 08:52 AM
Ginter has a knack for holding teams through middle innings. With our offense, this may get us back into some games we fall behind early.

ScottyTheSoxFan
03-20-2003, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
Ginter has a knack for holding teams through middle innings. With our offense, this may get us back into some games we fall behind early.

a perfect example is the cubs game comeback in june.

czalgosz
03-20-2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Ginter has been great this spring and there was a looonnnggg stretch last year when he was awesome (before faltering towards the end of the year). I think he has the potential to be a valuable reliever (the organization seems to believe his future is in the pen, not in the rotation). But I don't see how he makes the team until or unless they carry 7 guys in the pen (assuming that Koch, Marte, Gordon, White, Glover and Wunsch have all made the team ahead of him).

JM has already said he's going with 11 pitchers. Ginter has an off-chance of beating Glover for a job, but other than that he won't make the team unless someone gets hurt.

hold2dibber
03-20-2003, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
JM has already said he's going with 11 pitchers. Ginter has an off-chance of beating Glover for a job, but other than that he won't make the team unless someone gets hurt.

I interpreted JM's comments to mean that he was going to open the season with 11 pitchers (in light of the many off days during the first month or so of the season), NOT that he was only going to carry 11 all season long. Was he more specific than I recall (i.e., did he say 11 all year)?

kermittheefrog
03-20-2003, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I interpreted JM's comments to mean that he was going to open the season with 11 pitchers (in light of the many off days during the first month or so of the season), NOT that he was only going to carry 11 all season long. Was he more specific than I recall (i.e., did he say 11 all year)?

He said carrying 12 pitchers handcuffed him last season. I expect them to carry 11 this year.

czalgosz
03-20-2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I interpreted JM's comments to mean that he was going to open the season with 11 pitchers (in light of the many off days during the first month or so of the season), NOT that he was only going to carry 11 all season long. Was he more specific than I recall (i.e., did he say 11 all year)?

Nope, you remember correctly. I thought you meant out of ST.

hold2dibber
03-20-2003, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
He said carrying 12 pitchers handcuffed him last season. I expect them to carry 11 this year.

How the hell did having 12 pitchers handcuff him last year? He wouldn't even use the bench he had (how many times did we see Clayton or MJ hit at the end of tight games when he plenty of options on the bench)?

voodoochile
03-20-2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
How the hell did having 12 pitchers handcuff him last year? He wouldn't even use the bench he had (how many times did we see Clayton or MJ hit at the end of tight games when he plenty of options on the bench)?

:jerry
"Of course my nephew batted late in close games. Why wouldn't he? The reason it handcuffed me is because it limited my tinkering options. I just can't wait until we get even more bench warming scrubs that I can put in the lineup regularly. You ain't seen nothing yet. We will carry a third catcher with the extra slot and that will really open things up, because Josh Paul is versatile he can play about 8 different positions in fact, he just might..."

:versatile
"Learn to love me Sox fans, I am here for the long haul."

:ohno
"Bartender, another :gulp: or 6 please..."

Randar68
03-20-2003, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
JM has already said he's going with 11 pitchers. Ginter has an off-chance of beating Glover for a job, but other than that he won't make the team unless someone gets hurt.


I still can't believe White is going to make the Bullpen roster over Ginter. White has been lit up like a Christmas Tree this spring and has shown no signs of improvement!

czalgosz
03-20-2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
I still can't believe White is going to make the Bullpen roster over Ginter. White has been lit up like a Christmas Tree this spring and has shown no signs of improvement!

Don't worry about White - he's a veteran and his spring training performance is meaningless. I trust that when the bell rings, he'll be fine. He's a better pitcher than Ginter.

hold2dibber
03-20-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Don't worry about White - he's a veteran and his spring training performance is meaningless. I trust that when the bell rings, he'll be fine. He's a better pitcher than Ginter.

I'm not too worried about White, but I'm not convinced that he's still a better pitcher than Ginter. I see Ginter becoming very much like White eventually. But I'm pretty sure White has a MLB contract, which means he's gonna make the team, unless his arm explodes.

czalgosz
03-20-2003, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I'm not too worried about White, but I'm not convinced that he's still a better pitcher than Ginter. I see Ginter becoming very much like White eventually. But I'm pretty sure White has a MLB contract, which means he's gonna make the team, unless his arm explodes.

Well, if you're right, that means the Sox can let White go next season and go with Ginter. But I liked the White pickup - the Sox got him cheap, and he's been nothing if not productive. Aside from some atrocious outings in Coors Field last year, he's been very very good. His ERA last year pitching in places other than Coors was 2.53.

Before that -

1998 (TB) - 3.80 ERA
1999 (TB) - 4.08 ERA
2000 (TB/NYM) - 3.52 ERA
2001 (NYM) - 3.88 ERA

All very solid. He'll be fine.

hold2dibber
03-20-2003, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Well, if you're right, that means the Sox can let White go next season and go with Ginter. But I liked the White pickup - the Sox got him cheap, and he's been nothing if not productive. Aside from some atrocious outings in Coors Field last year, he's been very very good. His ERA last year pitching in places other than Coors was 2.53.

Before that -

1998 (TB) - 3.80 ERA
1999 (TB) - 4.08 ERA
2000 (TB/NYM) - 3.52 ERA
2001 (NYM) - 3.88 ERA

All very solid. He'll be fine.

Agreed; my point was more that I have faith in Ginter, not that I don't have faith in White.

On a related point, does anyon know if Ginter has options left? I assume he does, because I haven't heard otherwise, but it seems like he's been back and forth between AAA and the Sox for a couple of years now.

Daver
03-20-2003, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


On a related point, does anyon know if Ginter has options left? I assume he does, because I haven't heard otherwise, but it seems like he's been back and forth between AAA and the Sox for a couple of years now.

This is his third,and final,option year.

hold2dibber
03-20-2003, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by daver
This is his third,and final,option year.

Thanks.

voodoochile
03-20-2003, 06:31 PM
Since the thread is more about how the bullpen will shape up, I thought I'd bring up an Article in the Tribune (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-030319soxnotes,1,7129947.story?coll=cs%2Dwhitesox% 2Dheadlines) about the abundance of lefties the Sox have this year. It seemed to show that KW continues to grow as a GM, which is reason alone for optimism.

The teams calling general manager Ken Williams to inquire about the White Sox's flood of quality left-handed relievers have been told the same thing: Don't waste your time.

Simply put, Williams has no interest in making a deal.

"We like our guys," Williams said. "And you can never have too much depth. If we traded those left-handers, then I'd have to get on the phone and tell all these [scouts], 'Hey, we need a left-hander,' and then I'd have to listen to their [complaints]."


Not only is it good news for the depth of the bullpen, but it shows that KW is willing to sit pat for a while and let the pressure build. One or more of these guys will make a great starting point later this summer when another team comes calling looking for LH bullpen help - like someone does every year. Hang tight, Kenny. Drive up that price!

czalgosz
03-20-2003, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Not only is it good news for the depth of the bullpen, but it shows that KW is willing to sit pat for a while and let the pressure build. One or more of these guys will make a great starting point later this summer when another team comes calling looking for LH bullpen help - like someone does every year. Hang tight, Kenny. Drive up that price!

Maybe someday Kermit will have to change his sig.

kermittheefrog
03-20-2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Maybe someday Kermit will have to change his sig.

I've thought about it...