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ChiWhiteSox1337
03-07-2003, 11:49 PM
Sox notes: Wright scratched

Right-hander Dan Wright will not make his scheduled start against the Cubs Saturday at HoHoKam Park because of an inflammation of his right elbow. Manager Jerry Manuel did not think the injury was serious, but any time a pitcher has soreness during the spring season, the team wants to be cautious

ofcourse, the hyperlink to the rest of the story on whitesox.com doesn't work

HawkDJ
03-08-2003, 12:07 AM
Other key info from the article:

-Wyatt Allen, Byeong Hak An, Brian Cooper, Neal Cotts and Kris Honel, Jonathan Acevas have been reasigned to minor league camp.

-Pitching tomorrow on TV vs the Cubs: Jon Garland, Josh Stewart, Rick White, Mike Porzio, Damaso Marte, Corwin Malone

fuzzy_patters
03-08-2003, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by ChiWhiteSox1337
Sox notes: Wright scratched

Right-hander Dan Wright will not make his scheduled start against the Cubs Saturday at HoHoKam Park because of an inflammation of his right elbow. Manager Jerry Manuel did not think the injury was serious, but any time a pitcher has soreness during the spring season, the team wants to be cautious

ofcourse, the hyperlink to the rest of the story on whitesox.com doesn't work

This might explain why Wright has been getting hit hard. I know Farmer and Rooney have said that he has been throwing mostly fastballs so maybe he has been staying away from the junk because of pain in his arm. Hopefully, this won't be a lingering condition, or it might be time to sign Rogers.

Huisj
03-08-2003, 12:39 AM
Tommy John surgery. Ok, not really, but that's how the early reports ofter seem to be when pitchers go through that. Somehow it wouldn't be a total shock if it eventually came to that. but it would suck a lot

lighttowerpower1
03-08-2003, 10:41 AM
:nardi

"It's a good thing that I got to work with Danny for a little while before they fired me"

Lip Man 1
03-08-2003, 01:32 PM
Now you know why myself (and many others) were saying the Sox needed to go out and get more pitching depth. (i.e. Daal, Helling, Rogers etc...)

Some of us were ripped pretty badly by those who felt the rotation was fine and that the numbers showed the young pitchers would keep progressing. (although that never addressed the question of depth)

Well injuries are a part of the game. Maybe this is in fact, a minor problem but if it turns into a serious situation what do the Sox do? What's plan B?? (Do they bring up still "another" can't miss inexperienced kid???)

To put this into perspective... the Twins have lost Eric Milton for up to three months. He's been replaced by Johann Santana who won ten games last year and has wicked stuff.

If Wright is out who replaces him? Rauch? Stewart?? Don Cooper??? (LOL)

See my point.

"Mr . Boras... I have a phone call from Ken Williams."

Hmmmm....maybe Boras wasn't so dumb after all with his Kenny Rogers philosophy. (I don't know if he represents Chuck Finley or not...)

Let's hope this isn't serious because the Sox room for error is about a millimeter long!

Lip

voodoochile
03-08-2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
If Wright is out who replaces him? Rauch? Stewart?? Don Cooper??? (LOL)

Let's hope this isn't serious because the Sox room for error is about a millimeter long!

Lip

Well with Heredia and Loaiza (both of whom have looked pretty solid so far) the Sox still have 5 SP with experience and success in the majors), so it isn't as pressing as you make it sound. In addition if Rauch does perform well, it gives them at least some backup (as do Ginter and Glover). Again we would be talking about the 5th starters slot if Wright goes down and right now there are 4 guys who I just listed that could fill that role until DW makes it back.

This of course assumes that Wright actually IS injured. Either way, the "room for error" is way larger than at any time in my memory. Yes, some of the backup hasn't done a lot (or nothing at all) on the major league level in a couple of years, but it does exist.

Yes, Rogers would be nice, but maybe they should give the system they built a chance to work unless SB is willing to swollow his pride and let them have Rogers for a decent price (not going to happen).

I'm curious about your opinion of the pitchers I mentioned above. You claim there is little room for error, but obviously there is more than in past seasons. Do you think that none of the pitchers I mentioned (and the Sox signed for insurance) will pay off?

kermittheefrog
03-08-2003, 02:38 PM
I think pitching depth really is an issue. I think Jeff Suppan would have been a good addition but he's now with the Pirates. Kenny Rogers and Chuck Finley are both still on the market. If there is a serious problem with Wright one of them could be signed. We could also go for a Ken Phelps All-Star team kind of guy like Mickey Callaway or knuckle baller Jared Fernandez who was with Cincinnati last year.

jeremyb1
03-08-2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I think pitching depth really is an issue. I think Jeff Suppan would have been a good addition but he's now with the Pirates. Kenny Rogers and Chuck Finley are both still on the market. If there is a serious problem with Wright one of them could be signed. We could also go for a Ken Phelps All-Star team kind of guy like Mickey Callaway or knuckle baller Jared Fernandez who was with Cincinnati last year.

i don't think our depth is lacking that much. if wright were in fact to be diagnosed with a serious injury and require tommy john surgery the problem isn't that we lack depth so much as it is that one of our better starters is down for over a year. the twins are the only team in baseball that have a sixth starter better than anyone in their rotation. while that's obviously nice to have, its not common.

i think that between heredia, rauch, and stewart we can probably find a decent fifth starter. i know you're not a fan of stewart kermit, but sometimes suprising things happen without much explanation. look at how guys like shea hillenbrand or soriano can hit with terrible plate discipline. look at how well josh fogg pitched in the first half last season. ussually these guys do come back down to earth but i'd take a flukeish first half from stewart if we win games.

Lip Man 1
03-09-2003, 12:12 AM
Just my thoughts on this...

Loazia is a good pick up. I think when all is said and done he'll be the #5 guy (assuming Wright actually pitches this Spring)

Heredia didn't pitch in MLB last year and is coming off I think an elbow injury (doesn't inspire a lot of confidence does it?)

I am not impressed with the list of "can't miss kids" that was mentioned. This rotation already has four guys (and that assumes Wright is in the rotation) with three years or less of MLB experience. And you want to risk a possible playoff spot by making it younger and MORE inexperienced? Glover was a disaster as a starter last season and by taking him out of the bullpen, that's is weakened.

The rotation would look a hell of a lot better with some experienced guys ready to step in, again I was talking about guys like Suppan who threw 200+ innings the past four years, Helling who had 15 starts last year where he allowed three runs or less, Daal and Rogers.

These guys are all (or were) reasonably priced. The Sox payroll is between 52 and 55 million. That's certainly an improvement over last year but still FAR short of what is needed to seriously try for a pennent or adequetly (sorry about the spelling) represent the 3rd largest city in American.

If the Sox were shortsighted on this do you honestly expect them to try to resign Colon? Or as Phil Rogers pointed out they have some SERIOUS contract issues coming up in the next two years.

Unless management is willing to up the anty to say 60-65 million, this team could be torn apart AGAIN.

I think they need pitching and if Wright isn't right (lol) in ten days they have to go out and get some.

By the way this week's issue of The Sporting News lists individuals on the "hot seat" for each team. For the Sox, that guy is Manager Gandhi.

The report says he's expected to win this year and if the team gets off to a slow start...he's gone.

Lip

dougs78
03-09-2003, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1

Well injuries are a part of the game. Maybe this is in fact, a minor problem but if it turns into a serious situation what do the Sox do? What's plan B?? (Do they bring up still "another" can't miss inexperienced kid???)

To put this into perspective... the Twins have lost Eric Milton for up to three months. He's been replaced by Johann Santana who won ten games last year and has wicked stuff.



this logic is completely lost on me. First of all, we have no indication that Wright is going to miss any time this season. But what I really fail to understand is what "perspective" you are putting this in. You are so impressed by the depth the twins have, since they are able to put in a 24 year old with 14 ML starts to his name (sorry, only 8 wins, according to my records). And yet, you rip the Sox for "only" having a 24 year old with 6 ML starts (not to mention a Minor League POY) to fall back on. Explain to me again why 14 games of experience is so superior to anything we have to offer???

dougs78
03-09-2003, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
This rotation already has four guys (and that assumes Wright is in the rotation) with three years or less of MLB experience. And you want to risk a possible playoff spot by making it younger and MORE inexperienced?

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if we are assuming Wright is in the rotation, then this entire argument is a moot point.

Lip Man 1
03-09-2003, 12:51 AM
Because in this case, Santana has showed he can win at this level.

Can you say that about Rauch yet? or Stewart??? or anybody else??? Has any of the names that have been brought up in this thread among the kids shown anything yet over the course of a season?

Plus the expectations are now pretty high for the Sox because of the good moves that they have made. I ask the question again, are you willing to risk a possible playoff spot because the front office won't or can't spend a few more million dollars to shore up an area.

I also said that IF in fact the Wright issue turns serious. At this point nobody knows what will happen. Also the season STARTS in three weeks, losing even a week at this point in time is pretty significant.

That's why I also said I'd give it ten days and if it looks like he's still having trouble, try to push the button on a deal or pick up.

Lip

Chisox_cali
03-09-2003, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Because in this case, Santana has showed he can win at this level.

Can you say that about Rauch yet? or Stewart??? or anybody else??? Has any of the names that have been brought up in this thread among the kids shown anything yet over the course of a season?

Plus the expectations are now pretty high for the Sox because of the good moves that they have made. I ask the question again, are you willing to risk a possible playoff spot because the front office won't or can't spend a few more million dollars to shore up an area.

I also said that IF in fact the Wright issue turns serious. At this point nobody knows what will happen. Also the season STARTS in three weeks, losing even a week at this point in time is pretty significant.

That's why I also said I'd give it ten days and if it looks like he's still having trouble, try to push the button on a deal or pick up.

Lip

Santana has yet to prove he can beat the Sox though. He only had one start against us last season, but in that start he only lasted 3 2/3 in or so and gave up 8 earned runs including a 500-foot bomb to big frank.

jeremyb1
03-09-2003, 04:20 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Just my thoughts on this...

Loazia is a good pick up. I think when all is said and done he'll be the #5 guy (assuming Wright actually pitches this Spring)

Heredia didn't pitch in MLB last year and is coming off I think an elbow injury (doesn't inspire a lot of confidence does it?)

I am not impressed with the list of "can't miss kids" that was mentioned. This rotation already has four guys (and that assumes Wright is in the rotation) with three years or less of MLB experience. And you want to risk a possible playoff spot by making it younger and MORE inexperienced? Glover was a disaster as a starter last season and by taking him out of the bullpen, that's is weakened.

The rotation would look a hell of a lot better with some experienced guys ready to step in, again I was talking about guys like Suppan who threw 200+ innings the past four years, Helling who had 15 starts last year where he allowed three runs or less, Daal and Rogers.

These guys are all (or were) reasonably priced. The Sox payroll is between 52 and 55 million. That's certainly an improvement over last year but still FAR short of what is needed to seriously try for a pennent or adequetly (sorry about the spelling) represent the 3rd largest city in American.

If the Sox were shortsighted on this do you honestly expect them to try to resign Colon? Or as Phil Rogers pointed out they have some SERIOUS contract issues coming up in the next two years.

Unless management is willing to up the anty to say 60-65 million, this team could be torn apart AGAIN.

I think they need pitching and if Wright isn't right (lol) in ten days they have to go out and get some.

By the way this week's issue of The Sporting News lists individuals on the "hot seat" for each team. For the Sox, that guy is Manager Gandhi.

The report says he's expected to win this year and if the team gets off to a slow start...he's gone.


lip, i think you got it right in the other post when you said we need to pick someone up IF wright turns out to be injured. there's no reason to blame the organization for failing to sign more starters. there was absolutely no reason to have suspected wright could be injured. wright and garland earned jobs last season and rauch has earned the chance to have a shot at a spot. that means we didn't have room to sign other guys to major league deals.

a pitcher like suppan is solid but at this point in his career he lacks the upside a pitcher like rauch has. i'm sure if we had the chance we would've signed him to a minor league deal but to sign him to a major league contract guarantees him a spot in the rotation. that could become a problem if someone like rauch forced the issue. you don't want a mediocre pitcher taking up a spot in the rotation if you end up having a better pitcher with more upside ready to go.

Lip Man 1
03-10-2003, 12:58 AM
Phil Rogers discussing the Wright injury on WSI's celebrity chat Sunday night...

"Regarding Wright, I think you've got to be concerned . He came to camp throwing poorly then said he wasn't right. This bears watching closely, I believe "

The question stands, what do the Sox do about it? What is the back up plan??

Lip

Unregistered
03-10-2003, 01:48 AM
Following Loaiza's strong performance against the A's, JM had this quote: "Hopefully we can turn the corner with him," Sox manager Jerry Manuel said. "With Danny Wright down, it's a possibility that we could use him in that fourth spot. He looks like he is really hitting his spots. It is surprising that a guy like that would be out there [available]." Looks like Jerry is already counting Wright out...

But then, from the Trib:
Manuel said Wright is "about six days away" from returning to the mound after suffering soreness in his elbow. "There was no damage, just some inflammation," Manuel said. "He should be able to bounce back and at least give us six innings or 75 pitches."

jeremyb1
03-10-2003, 02:47 AM
i agree that the issue is obviously disconcerting but we have a pretty good medical staff. if they've run tests and they say there's no damage, i think he'll probably be ok.

Bmr31
03-10-2003, 03:10 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Because in this case, Santana has showed he can win at this level.

Can you say that about Rauch yet? or Stewart??? or anybody else??? Has any of the names that have been brought up in this thread among the kids shown anything yet over the course of a season?

Plus the expectations are now pretty high for the Sox because of the good moves that they have made. I ask the question again, are you willing to risk a possible playoff spot because the front office won't or can't spend a few more million dollars to shore up an area.

I also said that IF in fact the Wright issue turns serious. At this point nobody knows what will happen. Also the season STARTS in three weeks, losing even a week at this point in time is pretty significant.

That's why I also said I'd give it ten days and if it looks like he's still having trouble, try to push the button on a deal or pick up.

Lip

Or possibly, you just choose to find the negative in everything?

Hangar18
03-10-2003, 09:05 AM
When it comes to Pitching, ESPECIALLY a guys ELBOW....One MUST TAKE A WORST CASE SCENARIO APPROACH. the last time the SOX ignored their pitching problems, crossed their fingers, and hoped for the best, was spring 2001.....
Anyone remember how that Season Turned Out?? what a Waste.
I say we go out and get Pitching NOW

34 Inch Stick
03-10-2003, 11:36 AM
Even if Danny Wright is 100% has he proven himself to be an automatic for a starting spot. He needed some serious progression this year. We act like he was dependable throughout the year. Same with Olivo, Jimenez and Rowand. We cannot just close our eyes to possible problems with this team.

Lip Man 1
03-10-2003, 11:42 AM
34 inch stick says:

We cannot just close our eyes to possible problems with this team.

Can't do that 34! You don't want to be considered "negative" do you?

After all the overall track record of this organization the past 22 years inspires lofty expectations!

By the way, I'm wondering where all the Jon Rauch supporters have been lately? He's had as bad a spring as Wright and doesn't have the "injury" excuse.

Lip

Hangar18
03-10-2003, 11:50 AM
I dont about everyone else, but Im suddenly WORRIED again about this staff. we have a 1 and 2, and thats it. Garland is looking good, but can we afford to have terrible 4 and 5's???
Were in Trouble..............ive seen this movie before...

FanOf14
03-10-2003, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
I dont about everyone else, but Im suddenly WORRIED again about this staff. we have a 1 and 2, and thats it. Garland is looking good, but can we afford to have terrible 4 and 5's???
Were in Trouble..............ive seen this movie before...

Actually, going mostly with the ST numbers that have been put up, we have 4 starters that we should be confident with - Colon, Buehrle, Garland and Loaizia. Granted, this is based purely on ST and ST is only 1.5 weeks old so anything could change. I do think we need to look for one more starter in case DW doesn't make it back.

czalgosz
03-10-2003, 12:17 PM
In this day and age, it's not impossible to compete without a strong back end to the rotation - look at the Diamondbacks or the Giants.

In a worst case scenario, where Wright is out for a long time, I go with Loaiza and Rauch as the 4th/5th starter. If one of those falters as the season progresses, shop Konerko or Lee for a solid starter in June or July. But that's just me...

voodoochile
03-10-2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
34 inch stick says:

We cannot just close our eyes to possible problems with this team.

Can't do that 34! You don't want to be considered "negative" do you?

After all the overall track record of this organization the past 22 years inspires lofty expectations!

By the way, I'm wondering where all the Jon Rauch supporters have been lately? He's had as bad a spring as Wright and doesn't have the "injury" excuse.

Lip

There is a difference between realism and pessimism, IMO. However, I do understand how a fan could become pessimistic under the JR regime, it just isn't MY nature to do so...

As to Rauch, I think people are less convinced he has earned a spot and realize that the 5th SP slot is open for him, Heredia and Loaiza to fight over. Last man standing as it were. All of us hope Rauch turns out to be a stud, but there have been enough problems and hints of problems surrounding him that he is less of a sure thing than in the past.

I think the time to worry about Wright doesn't come for another week when/if they shut him down for the rest of ST. If he returns for his next start or the one after that and nothing more is heard about his elbow then there is no need to jump the gun. Of course that is just IMO...

Hangar18
03-10-2003, 12:57 PM
.....And those rumors about Kenny talking to the Expos about Vazquez? there must be some truth to that. hopefully the Expos dont see our hand this time around....

jeremyb1
03-10-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
When it comes to Pitching, ESPECIALLY a guys ELBOW....One MUST TAKE A WORST CASE SCENARIO APPROACH. the last time the SOX ignored their pitching problems, crossed their fingers, and hoped for the best, was spring 2001.....
Anyone remember how that Season Turned Out?? what a Waste.
I say we go out and get Pitching NOW

i completey disagree. guys do get sore arms all the time. you have to be aware of the worst case scenario but if they run the tests and the ligament in his elbow signs no signs of serious wear and tear and is still intact, then its ridiculous to sit around saying he's needs tommy john.

also, i don't think '01 is a good comparison. first of all, those pitchers all had shoulder injuries which are different and second of all with the exception of sirotka all those pitchers problems were diagnosed as soon as they owned up to experiencing pain while pitching. howry and baldwin had surgery in '00, parque either incurred his injury or at a minimum caused it to be much more severe in '01, and wunsch apparently was pitching in pain nearly the entire season but wouldn't admit it.

Hangar18
03-10-2003, 02:30 PM
My point was that after 2000 season, 4/5 of the staff was injured in some way. The Sox came into 2001 crossing their fingers on those pitchers all healing Miraculously instead of shoring up the pitching staff. All the sox ended up doing was wasting the season away. I sure hope your right that Wright is ok.....I just dont have a good feeling about this.

czalgosz
03-10-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
I just dont have a good feeling about this.

Frankly, I don't either, but the Sox aren't counting on Wright to nearly the same extent that they counted on Eldred, (David) Wells, and Parque to be healthy in 2001.

If it were Buerhle or Colon, I'd be worried. But Dan Wright isn't an irreplaceable commodity.